Tractor beams

[Sarevok]

A lot of dicussion has been done about the weapon systems found on starships of the Star Wars and Star Trek universe. So what about the other common system found on starships from both universes - the tractor beams ? Which side has the better tractor beam ?

[Isolder74]

That is hard to say. The only main difference appears to be that Star Trek Tractor beams use some type of visible beam while Star Wars Tractors are mostly invisible. They both pull in enemy ships but it seams that in Star Trek the enemy needs to be disabled before you can arrest them with the beam. The Death Star's Tractors were powerful enough to grab the Falcon with it fuy functional. Han obviously had special counter measures againsts Tractor Beams but while they seemed to work against Star Destroyers they didn't make the Death Star flinch.

The main difference in Tractor Beams seem to be targeting capibilities.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

A lot of dicussion has been done about the weapon systems found on starships of the Star Wars and Star Trek universe. So what about the other common system found on starships from both universes - the tractor beams ? Which side has the better tractor beam ?

The death star tractorbeam worked on the Falcon from (apparently) thousands of kilometers away. As far as I know, this is the only time we've seen a SW tractor beam used on a ship that isn't crippled. Pretty impressive.

[Isolder74]

A lot of dicussion has been done about the weapon systems found on starships of the Star Wars and Star Trek universe. So what about the other common system found on starships from both universes - the tractor beams ? Which side has the better tractor beam ?

The death star tractorbeam worked on the Falcon from (apparently) thousands of kilometers away. As far as I know, this is the only time we've seen a SW tractor beam used on a ship that isn't crippled. Pretty impressive.

In Empire the Executer was preparing to use its tractors to grab the falcon and apparently had it(The ship shaking) just before it engaged it hyperdrive(thanks to R2) so we have at least 2 cases of catching an operational ship.

Waiting until a ship is crippled may be a tactical choice thanks to the hyperdrive. If the enemy knows you are tractoring them and they are ready to jump they can get away but not if it was a crippled they can't. Explains why disabling the hyperdrive on the Falcon was so important.

[Robert Walper]

A lot of dicussion has been done about the weapon systems found on starships of the Star Wars and Star Trek universe. So what about the other common system found on starships from both universes - the tractor beams ? Which side has the better tractor beam ?

The death star tractorbeam worked on the Falcon from (apparently) thousands of kilometers away. As far as I know, this is the only time we've seen a SW tractor beam used on a ship that isn't crippled. Pretty impressive.

Not really. Given the sheer size and power disparity between the Falcon and the DS, the ability of the DS to overpower the Falcon is hardly unexpected. You'd expect a small refitted cargo freighter to be overpowered by a moon sized battlestation.

[Robert Walper]

That is hard to say. The only main difference appears to be that Star Trek Tractor beams use some type of visible beam while Star Wars Tractors are mostly invisible. They both pull in enemy ships but it seams that in Star Trek the enemy needs to be disabled before you can arrest them with the beam.

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway with a tractor beam when it attempted to use a warp jump tactic (better known as the Picard manuever). Referring to the DS and Falcon example, the Enterprise and Halfaway example is more impressive, since the size and power disparity is many magnitudes smaller.

[Darth Wong]

That is hard to say. The only main difference appears to be that Star Trek Tractor beams use some type of visible beam while Star Wars Tractors are mostly invisible. They both pull in enemy ships but it seams that in Star Trek the enemy needs to be disabled before you can arrest them with the beam.

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway with a tractor beam when it attempted to use a warp jump tactic (better known as the Picard manuever). Referring to the DS and Falcon example, the Enterprise and Halfaway example is more impressive, since the size and power disparity is many magnitudes smaller.

At extreme close range.

[Robert Walper]

That is hard to say. The only main difference appears to be that Star Trek Tractor beams use some type of visible beam while Star Wars Tractors are mostly invisible. They both pull in enemy ships but it seams that in Star Trek the enemy needs to be disabled before you can arrest them with the beam.

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway with a tractor beam when it attempted to use a warp jump tactic (better known as the Picard manuever). Referring to the DS and Falcon example, the Enterprise and Halfaway example is more impressive, since the size and power disparity is many magnitudes smaller.

At extreme close range.

I was pointing out more along the lines power and size ratios, not range of said tractor beams. The DS's ability was obviously far greater in scale there.

[DaveJB]

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway...

Stargazer, not the Hathaway.

I might as well point out that the Borg have their Shield-Draining tractor beam (IIRC it was able to neutralise the shields on the E-D and Saratoga in about 10-20 seconds), but it probably wouldn't work on SW ships since it relies on finding the shield frequency. Not to mention it'd take about a week to drain an ISD's shields!

[Robert Walper]

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway...

Stargazer, not the Hathaway.

Nitpicker. Seriously, most of my memorized facts are about the Borg. *points to sig*

[Isolder74]

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway...

Stargazer, not the Hathaway.

I might as well point out that the Borg have their Shield-Draining tractor beam (IIRC it was able to neutralise the shields on the E-D and Saratoga in about 10-20 seconds), but it probably wouldn't work on SW ships since it relies on finding the shield frequency. Not to mention it'd take about a week to drain an ISD's shields!

The Borg beams are the only instance when we have someone tractoring a hostile while not knowing what it will do. The Enterprise knew exactally what the Stargazer was going to do so they came up with a way to lock on to the ship on the fly. In tractor tech the Borg do seem head and shoulders above anything in trek universe!

[Praxis]

Waiting until a ship is crippled may be a tactical choice thanks to the hyperdrive. If the enemy knows you are tractoring them and they are ready to jump they can get away but not if it was a crippled they can't. Explains why disabling the hyperdrive on the Falcon was so important.

Or even worse- they engage the hyperdrive in your docking bay. Imagine if the Tantive IV had gone to lightspeed INSIDE of the Devastator's docking bay- it would have blown the nose off the ISD.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Or even worse- they engage the hyperdrive in your docking bay. Imagine if the Tantive IV had gone to lightspeed INSIDE of the Devastator's docking bay- it would have blown the nose off the ISD.

And would have desintigrated the Tantive IV into neutrinos...

[Praxis]

Or even worse- they engage the hyperdrive in your docking bay. Imagine if the Tantive IV had gone to lightspeed INSIDE of the Devastator's docking bay- it would have blown the nose off the ISD.

And would have desintigrated the Tantive IV into neutrinos...

Of course, but if you're in a small warship and you're about to be captured by imperials in a STAR DESTROYER (meaning you have no chance), and you AREN'T carrying sensitive information that MUST get through, isn't getting captured and engaging the hyperdrive the perfect way to go down?

It'd be better than a ramming attack or self destruct, because, being inside the enemy, you'd have a sure kill.

If I'd been captain of the Tantive IV and the hyperdrive/power core HADN'T been disabled, I'd have ordered the ship evacuated (escape pods launched out) when it seemed certain the ship was a loss, and then set a five minute hyperdrive timer.

Then even if vader doesn't buy the story and kills me (which he did), BAM, the ISD will get it anyway.

[Praxis]

Where's that dang edit button?

Anyway, it'd be a perfect suicide tactic, enabling tiny ships to tear giant ones apart from the inside.

[Ghost Rider]

Small problem. Your tactic requires the engine to be intact.

Literally the reason they captured you is because they disabled the Hyperdrive.

You really can't be captured if you have the Hyperdrive already to be fired up and ready to go now can you?

[Praxis]

Small problem. Your tactic requires the engine to be intact.

Literally the reason they captured you is because they disabled the Hyperdrive.

You really can't be captured if you have the Hyperdrive already to be fired up and ready to go now can you?

Yeah, I said IF

I was referring to the above post which was theororizing as to why the hyperdrive had to be enabled. I was saying that if the hyperdrive WASN'T disabled, it would make engaging the hyperdrive inside the capturing ship's bay a valid suicide tactic.

[Ghost Rider]

Small problem. Your tactic requires the engine to be intact.

Literally the reason they captured you is because they disabled the Hyperdrive.

You really can't be captured if you have the Hyperdrive already to be fired up and ready to go now can you?

Yeah, I said IF

I was referring to the above post which was theororizing as to why the hyperdrive had to be enabled. I was saying that if the hyperdrive WASN'T disabled, it would make engaging the hyperdrive inside the capturing ship's bay a valid suicide tactic.

But if you can get away...why suicide?

Seriously with the Hyperdrive intact, you can leave...no reason to turn yourself into free floating atoms.

[Praxis]

Correction to the above post: I meant DISABLED, not enabled. Sorry. No edit button. AGH.

[Connor MacLeod]

That is hard to say. The only main difference appears to be that Star Trek Tractor beams use some type of visible beam while Star Wars Tractors are mostly invisible. They both pull in enemy ships but it seams that in Star Trek the enemy needs to be disabled before you can arrest them with the beam.

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway with a tractor beam when it attempted to use a warp jump tactic (better known as the Picard manuever). Referring to the DS and Falcon example, the Enterprise and Halfaway example is more impressive, since the size and power disparity is many magnitudes smaller.

I can think of several objections to this:

1.) Mass lightening - if the ship's mass is artificially "reduced" for propulsive purposes, the tractor beam would act on that SAME reduced mass.

2.) More importantly, you seem to be assuming that both incidents are comparable in terms of effort applied (In other words, you're implying what the Death Star did with the Falcon is somehow an upper limit. )

[Connor MacLeod]

Or even worse- they engage the hyperdrive in your docking bay. Imagine if the Tantive IV had gone to lightspeed INSIDE of the Devastator's docking bay- it would have blown the nose off the ISD.

And would have desintigrated the Tantive IV into neutrinos...

Doubt it. There would be a massive sublight acceleration up TO lightspeed first, which means that the Tantive IV would probably ram straight into the ISD's internals at relatavistic speeds. Remember what happened to Griff's Star Destroyers when they rammed the Executor's shields?


And even if they somehow magically transitioned to lightspeed without the ramp-up acceleration beforehand, the Tantive IV would still have "colided" with the ISD's internals, and hence done damage (objects in hyperspace and realspace interact, you may recall.)

[Praxis]

Or even worse- they engage the hyperdrive in your docking bay. Imagine if the Tantive IV had gone to lightspeed INSIDE of the Devastator's docking bay- it would have blown the nose off the ISD.

And would have desintigrated the Tantive IV into neutrinos...

Doubt it. There would be a massive sublight acceleration up TO lightspeed first, which means that the Tantive IV would probably ram straight into the ISD's internals at relatavistic speeds. Remember what happened to Griff's Star Destroyers when they rammed the Executor's shields?

Being inside the ISD, the mass of the Tantive IV or any similar ship, accelerated to any significant fraction of lightspeed, would do some serious damage...

[generator_g1]

If I'd been captain of the Tantive IV and the hyperdrive/power core HADN'T been disabled, I'd have ordered the ship evacuated (escape pods launched out) when it seemed certain the ship was a loss, and then set a five minute hyperdrive timer.

Then even if vader doesn't buy the story and kills me (which he did), BAM, the ISD will get it anyway.

Won't the Star Destroyer also target the escape pods with the tractor beam? Or if out of range, simply shoot them all down?

[Robert Walper]

Actually, that's not true. The Enterprise D was able to snag the Halfaway with a tractor beam when it attempted to use a warp jump tactic (better known as the Picard manuever). Referring to the DS and Falcon example, the Enterprise and Halfaway example is more impressive, since the size and power disparity is many magnitudes smaller.

I can think of several objections to this:

1.) Mass lightening - if the ship's mass is artificially "reduced" for propulsive purposes, the tractor beam would act on that SAME reduced mass.

That's a good point. I forgot about Mass Lightening. That should reduce the required power, although I submit the efficiency of the system goes up.

2.) More importantly, you seem to be assuming that both incidents are comparable in terms of effort applied (In other words, you're implying what the Death Star did with the Falcon is somehow an upper limit. )

Actually, I'm not assuming either case was the upper limit of their capability.

In the case of the Enterprise, we know that it's tractoring power and capability is actually capable of moving a small moon (episode name escapes me though). Others may be able to clarify.

As to the DS, the Falcon example is the only canon example I'm aware of with the DS tractoring any object, so that's all I had to work with. But I don't assume that was the maximum effort the DS could put out. Essentially, it's just a lower limit; however any assumption or assertion the DS can perform effort many orders of magnitude larger requires proof I do not possess.

However, I would submit that to be on par with the Enterprise ratio wise, the DS would have to be capable of tractoring and moving an object that is on the same scale disparity as the E-D/moon example I mentioned.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

The death star tractorbeam worked on the Falcon from (apparently) thousands of kilometers away. As far as I know, this is the only time we've seen a SW tractor beam used on a ship that isn't crippled. Pretty impressive.

Not really. Given the sheer size and power disparity between the Falcon and the DS, the ability of the DS to overpower the Falcon is hardly unexpected. You'd expect a small refitted cargo freighter to be overpowered by a moon sized battlestation.

I meant the range was impressive, especially considering the beam's power and effectiveness.