Debate with creationistalltheway

[haas mark]

saviorlover2000 (5:00:31 PM): hey
saviorlover2000 (5:00:32 PM): sure
Pcgallegos (5:00:42 PM): Okay.
saviorlover2000 (5:00:56 PM): srry, sound doesn't work on this computer. I didn't hear the window pop up
Pcgallegos (5:01:25 PM): Ah, its okay...no sound on mine...just a little flashy on the taskbar..brb..reading youre last response.
saviorlover2000 (5:01:32 PM): ok
Pcgallegos (5:02:39 PM): So....you say that it was physically written by mortal beings, yes?
saviorlover2000 (5:02:46 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:02:55 PM): Ok, now does it have God's name on the cover?
saviorlover2000 (5:03:08 PM): as in God didn't take a pen and pencil and write it
saviorlover2000 (5:03:09 PM): no
saviorlover2000 (5:03:11 PM): but in the pages
saviorlover2000 (5:03:15 PM): it claims He wrote it
Pcgallegos (5:03:29 PM): WHere? I am willing to allow a quote on this one.
saviorlover2000 (5:03:52 PM): ok
saviorlover2000 (5:04:17 PM): 2 Timothy 3:16
Pcgallegos (5:04:33 PM): I dont have access to a Bible, you mind writing iot out for me?
saviorlover2000 (5:04:33 PM): 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

saviorlover2000 (5:04:49 PM): ignore the verse number at the beginning
Pcgallegos (5:05:05 PM): "God-breathed"...that means inspired, not a claim to writing it.
saviorlover2000 (5:05:45 PM): define what you mean by inspired?
saviorlover2000 (5:06:00 PM): I'd say claiming to inspire people what to write is the samew as writing it
Pcgallegos (5:06:09 PM): It drove them )whoever wrote the Bible) to write what they did
saviorlover2000 (5:06:35 PM): exactly
Pcgallegos (5:06:45 PM): CLiming to inspire is in no way claiming to write it...I in no way give credit to my Muses for writing what I do.
saviorlover2000 (5:07:46 PM): I"d say it is. MY version of inspire it to incline someone of what to say. In God's case, I believe thats a very powerful inclination
Pcgallegos (5:08:05 PM): It is to inline someone to say...is that actually saying it? No.
Pcgallegos (5:08:16 PM): inclining someone to do...is that doing it? No.
Pcgallegos (5:08:48 PM): An inclination is all that is...an inclination, noi more, no less.
saviorlover2000 (5:09:21 PM): what I mean by an inclination is to give us an urge to do a particular task. If you're a God, the way you do that is by telling them what to say
saviorlover2000 (5:09:26 PM): giving them an inclination to say it
Pcgallegos (5:09:42 PM): Giving an urge does not equal doing it, neither does telling one what to do.
saviorlover2000 (5:09:50 PM): of course God didn't say "From, Paul, a brother in the Lord" but He did tell paul to write it
Pcgallegos (5:09:59 PM): But He didn't write it.
saviorlover2000 (5:10:06 PM): in that sense no
saviorlover2000 (5:10:11 PM): but
Pcgallegos (5:10:13 PM): LIterally he didn't in any sense
saviorlover2000 (5:10:28 PM): if you write what someone tells you to, that reflects His beliefs and what He "says"
Pcgallegos (5:10:47 PM): That only reflects what he says...it is saying what he says....it is not him actually saying it.
saviorlover2000 (5:11:11 PM): and those who wrote the Bible wrote what the Lord said
Pcgallegos (5:11:26 PM): that they did, but did the Lord write it? No.
saviorlover2000 (5:11:48 PM): the reason for that is to show that it could not be false and all in it is according to what He wanted in it
saviorlover2000 (5:11:52 PM): not litertally
saviorlover2000 (5:11:56 PM): more like dictated it
Pcgallegos (5:12:12 PM): They couldn't show it to be false, but they couldn'tshow it to be truth, other than their faith.
saviorlover2000 (5:12:36 PM): naturally
Pcgallegos (5:12:48 PM): Exactly the point I've been trying to make.
saviorlover2000 (5:12:52 PM): of course faith is the biggest object
Pcgallegos (5:13:10 PM): Not so! Proof is an even bigger object!
saviorlover2000 (5:13:16 PM): I"m not gonna be like Okkun and tell you I walk by sight
Pcgallegos (5:13:22 PM): ???
saviorlover2000 (5:13:23 PM): biggest object in the christian belief
saviorlover2000 (5:13:45 PM): meaning, I"m not going to even try to imply that I believe by proof, not through faith
saviorlover2000 (5:14:08 PM): sorry, reference to "walk by faith, not by sight" which Bobm says a lot
Pcgallegos (5:14:09 PM): Ah. Makes sense. But I guess you can call me agnostic...I don't believe in the same God that you do.
saviorlover2000 (5:14:18 PM): whatg God do you believe in?
saviorlover2000 (5:14:21 PM): *what*
Pcgallegos (5:14:37 PM): I believe in the pagan Gods, which are living inside nature...a concrete substance.
saviorlover2000 (5:14:46 PM): polytheism?
Pcgallegos (5:14:48 PM): I guess you could call me a druid, of sorts.
Pcgallegos (5:14:55 PM): Two Gods....a God and a Goddess
Pcgallegos (5:15:01 PM): But e digress.
Pcgallegos (5:15:03 PM): *we
saviorlover2000 (5:15:09 PM): ohh
saviorlover2000 (5:15:33 PM): sounds a bit like Wicca
Pcgallegos (5:15:52 PM): So, in essence you believe that God wroite it (the Bible). I say that although it may have been inspired by God, it was in no way written by him.
Pcgallegos (5:16:06 PM): And yes, it is a form of Wicca, wanna damn me to Hell for it?
saviorlover2000 (5:16:20 PM): its all based on how much we attribute to God, and how much we attribute to man
saviorlover2000 (5:16:29 PM): not what I had in mind
Pcgallegos (5:16:55 PM): I believe that it can only be attributed to Man because if God wanted to write the thing, then He would have put it out for everyone.
Pcgallegos (5:17:03 PM): It wouldn't have had to be inspired.
Pcgallegos (5:17:11 PM): It wouldn't have had to be "written."
saviorlover2000 (5:17:15 PM): that is if God had intended for everyone to believe it
Pcgallegos (5:17:31 PM): Which He did.
saviorlover2000 (5:17:54 PM): but if He were going to go to all lengths He could to insure everyone would believe in it, then we wouldn't see all the different religions around today
Pcgallegos (5:18:13 PM): I know. And how do you explain that?
Pcgallegos (5:18:18 PM): You can't.
saviorlover2000 (5:18:26 PM): thats what the Free-Willists say. I say God has already chosen. the fact that He didn't choose all means He didn't intend for all to come to Him
Pcgallegos (5:18:30 PM): Which is why you can't say that the Bible was written by God.
saviorlover2000 (5:18:41 PM): *by intend, I mean He did not try to make all come to Him*
saviorlover2000 (5:18:43 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:19:13 PM): If He wanted to have everyone in His Kingdom, then He would have made us all Catholics, not of every religion that we are now.
Pcgallegos (5:19:20 PM): Moreover, we would have been Jews!
saviorlover2000 (5:19:34 PM): it seems obvious for you and I alike that if God chose to go to all lengths to save a person, everyone would be saved
saviorlover2000 (5:19:38 PM): we're on the same side of this part
Pcgallegos (5:19:52 PM): Exactly. But my point stands: He did not write the Bible.
saviorlover2000 (5:20:20 PM): He dictated it though
saviorlover2000 (5:20:26 PM): He did not literally write the Bible
Pcgallegos (5:20:28 PM): If H ewould go to all lengths to save Abraham and his son, or Noah, or anyne else for that matter, everyone would be saved.
saviorlover2000 (5:20:33 PM): but that doesn't demean that it is Hius words
saviorlover2000 (5:20:41 PM): which they aren't
saviorlover2000 (5:20:47 PM): so He did not go to all lengths
Pcgallegos (5:20:50 PM): He dictated it; this will never mean that he wrote it in any way shape or form/
saviorlover2000 (5:21:14 PM): no more then me dictating to my keyboard what to send to you
Pcgallegos (5:21:29 PM): He DID go to all lengths to save Noah because He told him to build the ark...and I may be confusing stories, but wasn't Abraham involved in Sodom and Gomorrah?
Pcgallegos (5:21:41 PM): But God was dictating to living things.
Pcgallegos (5:22:05 PM): And I never said that they weren;t His words.
saviorlover2000 (5:22:21 PM): but God's calling is as powerful as me telling my computer to type this.
Pcgallegos (5:22:34 PM): You are not dictating to a human, as you say, you are dictating to a keyboard. Major difference.
saviorlover2000 (5:22:35 PM): yes, God wanted Noah to be saved because he was righteous
Pcgallegos (5:22:41 PM): Exactly.
saviorlover2000 (5:22:46 PM): but I"m not God
Pcgallegos (5:22:56 PM): He went to all lengths to save Noah.
Pcgallegos (5:23:13 PM): I know you're not God, and neither am I...but you are still dictating to a keyboard.
saviorlover2000 (5:23:14 PM): going to all lengths would be making Him sinless
Pcgallegos (5:23:27 PM): ANd Goid isn't Sinless?
Pcgallegos (5:23:30 PM): *God
saviorlover2000 (5:23:34 PM): oops
Pcgallegos (5:23:37 PM): What?
saviorlover2000 (5:23:42 PM): lowercase h
Pcgallegos (5:23:46 PM): Right...
saviorlover2000 (5:23:47 PM): him=noah
saviorlover2000 (5:24:03 PM): AOL has made my grammar and spelling skills go waaay down
Pcgallegos (5:24:09 PM): Whatever.
Pcgallegos (5:24:34 PM): Anyways, you are dictating to a keybard. If oyu had said you are dictating to ME, then I would have gone along eith your argument...maybe.
Pcgallegos (5:25:04 PM): Go ddictating to the prophets is the same thing as Socrates dictating to Aristotle, and him to Plato.
saviorlover2000 (5:25:29 PM): how so?
Pcgallegos (5:25:32 PM): They dictated, but did not write...and I KNOW I've got those philosophers mixed up...Socrates to Plato, Plato to Aristotle.
Pcgallegos (5:25:40 PM): THey did not write for themselves, that is.
saviorlover2000 (5:25:49 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:25:55 PM): And neither did God.
saviorlover2000 (5:25:56 PM): the only point I am making is that it is God's words
Pcgallegos (5:26:21 PM): No one has gioven credit to Socrates for what Plato wrote, nor to Plato for what Aristotle wrote.
Pcgallegos (5:27:02 PM): Plat's writings are Socrates' words.
Pcgallegos (5:27:11 PM): Aristotle's writings are Platio's words.
saviorlover2000 (5:27:19 PM): are they his excact words?
saviorlover2000 (5:27:23 PM): *exact*
Pcgallegos (5:27:35 PM): As far as anyone knows.
saviorlover2000 (5:27:47 PM): they that is in essence, plagerism
Pcgallegos (5:28:06 PM): Then so would be taking God's words. Gotcha!
saviorlover2000 (5:28:22 PM): if you don't attribute them as God's words.
Pcgallegos (5:28:28 PM): ???
saviorlover2000 (5:28:43 PM): if the prophets said "here is what I say, listen to me ".." then quoted God, then it would be plagerism
Pcgallegos (5:28:50 PM): If you don't attribute them as God's words, then they are not GOd's words, which violates everything you have previously stated!
Pcgallegos (5:29:11 PM): I'd say Conceesion Accepted if I wsn't interested in what else you have to say!
saviorlover2000 (5:29:55 PM): I'm saying it is wrong to not attribute them as God's words
saviorlover2000 (5:30:04 PM): not that it makes them any less His words
Pcgallegos (5:30:15 PM): BUt you are also saying *not* to attrribute them as God's words because it is plagiarism.
saviorlover2000 (5:30:20 PM): no
saviorlover2000 (5:30:30 PM): I"m saying it is plagerism if the prophets did not attribute it to God
Pcgallegos (5:30:35 PM): Yes you are; I said that PLato quoted Socrates
Pcgallegos (5:30:49 PM): If oyu knew anything, you'd know that all of Plato's writings are about SOcrates.
Pcgallegos (5:30:57 PM): Same goes for Aristotle.
Pcgallegos (5:31:14 PM): SO they attributed it to God.
Pcgallegos (5:31:24 PM): That doesn;t mean God wrote the Bible.
saviorlover2000 (5:32:00 PM): we've been over this
Pcgallegos (5:32:22 PM): I know...but you keep bringing it up and I keep disproving you time and time again.
saviorlover2000 (5:32:45 PM): I have said that God dictated to the prophets what He wantedf them to say
saviorlover2000 (5:33:00 PM): then you "prove" to me that God did not write it
Pcgallegos (5:33:14 PM): Yes, I know, but you have also said that this meant that He wrote it. Which it deosn't.
Pcgallegos (5:33:48 PM): It is the same as someone dictating to a secretary.
saviorlover2000 (5:33:57 PM): yep
saviorlover2000 (5:34:03 PM): I'm not claiming he literally wrote it
Pcgallegos (5:34:11 PM): I know this.
saviorlover2000 (5:34:18 PM): any more then the bosses' dictating to the secretary is writing it
Pcgallegos (5:34:26 PM): I know.
saviorlover2000 (5:34:58 PM): "but you have also said that this meant that He wrote it."
Pcgallegos (5:34:59 PM): But you keep trying to say that credit that is given to the boss (ie God) is all that matters and that in essence the boos erote it, which he/He did not.
saviorlover2000 (5:35:38 PM): I'd say that in essence the boss did write it
saviorlover2000 (5:35:47 PM): or at the very least said it
Pcgallegos (5:35:48 PM): How so? Because he dictated it?
saviorlover2000 (5:35:54 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:35:59 PM): That is all he did: the very least.
saviorlover2000 (5:36:16 PM): I can dictate a book to my fastest trying secretary, but I still wrote the book
Pcgallegos (5:36:49 PM): No, the ghostwriter (the secretary) wrote the book. Again, I point to our three philosophers. Same example.
saviorlover2000 (5:37:16 PM): and I don't need to say "written by secretary's 41, 42, 43, 44" etc. because they were not the authors
Pcgallegos (5:37:25 PM): You know, you use the same argument over and over...why?
saviorlover2000 (5:37:46 PM): because you use the same defense
Pcgallegos (5:37:57 PM): Because you only have one argument.
Pcgallegos (5:38:12 PM): I can't go anywhere with only one argument.
saviorlover2000 (5:38:19 PM): argument for whether or not the Bible is authored by God?
saviorlover2000 (5:38:31 PM): until you overcome the first one then there needn't be a second
Pcgallegos (5:38:41 PM): No, argument that He DID write it...argument that inspiration = doing.
Pcgallegos (5:39:08 PM): I as well as many others are never going to believe that Gos trruly wrote the Bible, in essence or otherwise.
saviorlover2000 (5:40:17 PM): what is the difference in your mind between writing the Bible and making it? It's just like having a dialogue put down in words. It makes no difference whether the person who said it typed it up
Pcgallegos (5:41:22 PM): A dialogue is just that: an exchange between verbal expressions. Typing is something entirely different: it is recording it, not actually partivcipating in it (unless thru AIM, chat rooms, etc)
Pcgallegos (5:41:41 PM): What you are trying to say is God inspired it, therefoere he wrote it.
saviorlover2000 (5:42:15 PM): I am sayign that God dictated it, therefor who literally wrote it does not make a difference
Pcgallegos (5:42:21 PM): Why?
Pcgallegos (5:42:28 PM): DOn't you consider them prophets?
saviorlover2000 (5:42:33 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:42:46 PM): Then who wrote it *DOES* matter.
saviorlover2000 (5:42:49 PM): but it was because of God, not them
Pcgallegos (5:42:58 PM): But they are still the ones that wrote it.
saviorlover2000 (5:43:02 PM): They were prophets because God chose to use them
saviorlover2000 (5:43:09 PM): I'll concede to that
Pcgallegos (5:43:13 PM): He uses them...now isn't that nice.
saviorlover2000 (5:43:25 PM): not taking atvantage of them
saviorlover2000 (5:43:35 PM): *advantage*
Pcgallegos (5:43:45 PM): In what way? He used themto write the Bible. I wouyld say that's taking advantage of them.
saviorlover2000 (5:44:28 PM): I would not
Pcgallegos (5:44:31 PM): Why?
saviorlover2000 (5:44:45 PM): taking advantage is usually considered using someone for your purposes, not theres
saviorlover2000 (5:44:51 PM): the writers of the Bible were revealed the truth
saviorlover2000 (5:45:08 PM): it was written for everyone's benefit, including their own
Pcgallegos (5:45:20 PM): He used them for the purpose of revealing his truth...revealing his truth was his purpose. Therefore, he took advantage of them.
Pcgallegos (5:46:20 PM): And if it was for everyone's benefit, then GOd's benefit is included.
saviorlover2000 (5:46:21 PM): being a messenger of God would not be considered taking advantage
Pcgallegos (5:46:32 PM): Hardly!
saviorlover2000 (5:46:52 PM): use means He was willing to let them know the truth and proclaim it to others
saviorlover2000 (5:47:09 PM): it doesn't mean "hey you, you don't want to spread the word/ Too bad I'm God and I need you"
Pcgallegos (5:47:17 PM): He told them the truth and (as YOU have said before) told them to write it down.
saviorlover2000 (5:47:23 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:47:38 PM): So I have caught you in your own trap.
saviorlover2000 (5:47:44 PM): how?
Pcgallegos (5:47:49 PM): That is taking advantage of someone.
Pcgallegos (5:48:07 PM): Using them (telling them to do it, and having htem do it) is taking advantage of them'
saviorlover2000 (5:48:20 PM): no more then a teacher telling their student a fact and telling them to write a report on it is
Pcgallegos (5:48:38 PM): God = teacher, student - prophet. I think I win.
saviorlover2000 (5:49:07 PM): in that analogy, yes you are correct
saviorlover2000 (5:49:11 PM): but how does that mean you win?
saviorlover2000 (5:50:03 PM): the teacher doesn't need their help, she has them do it for their good, as well as the good of those hearing it
Pcgallegos (5:50:07 PM): I think I win the argument...a teacher telling a student to do a report and having the student actually do the report is taking advantage. If the stuent were to rebel, then it would not.
saviorlover2000 (5:50:37 PM): how is that taking advantage?
saviorlover2000 (5:50:51 PM): would you like to argue that schools are now taking advantage of their children?
Pcgallegos (5:50:59 PM): She has them so it for theior good, but she also has them do it period. What if the students wishes not to do it?
Pcgallegos (5:51:17 PM): ANd then, if the stuident rebels, the teacher punishes.
saviorlover2000 (5:51:19 PM): that isn't the case wqith the prophets
saviorlover2000 (5:51:36 PM): He wouldn't choose them if they were not willing
Pcgallegos (5:51:42 PM): Really? If a prophet were to rebel he wouldn't be punished?
Pcgallegos (5:51:47 PM): Is that so?
saviorlover2000 (5:51:56 PM): He would not be a prophet in the first place
Pcgallegos (5:52:05 PM): Really...hm.
Pcgallegos (5:52:22 PM): May I ask you a quick question?
saviorlover2000 (5:52:25 PM): sure
Pcgallegos (5:52:33 PM): Just for my reference, how old are you?
saviorlover2000 (5:52:40 PM): 13
Pcgallegos (5:52:44 PM): Ah. Ok.
saviorlover2000 (5:52:54 PM): tsk, that happens whenever I reveal my age
saviorlover2000 (5:52:56 PM): u?
Pcgallegos (5:53:13 PM): No wonder you are so bad at logic...go to school some more and debat eme again in five years. I'm 18.
Pcgallegos (5:53:32 PM): I also hang around a lot of people that argue these things all the time.
Pcgallegos (5:53:40 PM): That are genberally five+ years older than I am.
saviorlover2000 (5:53:46 PM): when did this argument become personal?
saviorlover2000 (5:53:58 PM): many on the board disagree with you and they are decades older
Pcgallegos (5:53:58 PM): I just wanted to know...back on topic.
Pcgallegos (5:54:09 PM): I know, and they would use the same arguments.
saviorlover2000 (5:54:20 PM): so age is not an issue
saviorlover2000 (5:55:08 PM): God's sovereignty can make people want to do His good
Pcgallegos (5:55:08 PM): Not really...I just wanted oto make wure you weren;t in over your head, is all.
saviorlover2000 (5:55:14 PM): lo;
saviorlover2000 (5:55:16 PM): *lol*
saviorlover2000 (5:55:22 PM): g2g
saviorlover2000 (5:55:25 PM): bye
Pcgallegos (5:55:30 PM): Well, I'd like to see him make ME want to see His way.
Previous message was not received by saviorlover2000 because of error (5:55:30 PM): User saviorlover2000 is not available.

Timestamp is SUCH a good thing!

[haas mark]

It was such an effort not to cuss but, I think I speak for the greater good when I say CONCESSION ACCEPTED!!!

[Darth Wong]

Don't you love the way they describe God as the "Saviour" because he "saves" us from ... himself? Gee, I guess that if I walk up to you and point a gun in your face but decide not to pull the trigger, I'm your "saviour" and you should be glad you met me

[haas mark]

Don't you love the way they describe God as the "Saviour" because he "saves" us from ... himself? Gee, I guess that if I walk up to you and point a gun in your face but decide not to pull the trigger, I'm your "saviour" and you should be glad you met me

Always! So, how do I measure up?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

My ringside seat with Verilon on AIM:

Session Start (AIM - EinhanderSn0m4n:pcgallegos): Fri Nov 01 17:04:37 2002
[17:04] Einhander Sn0m4n: ok i'm back
[17:04] Einhander Sn0m4n: but winamp's b0rked
[17:05] Einhander Sn0m4n: and it refuses to show up in task manager
[17:05] pcgallegos: grr....killing creationistalltheway via AIM...timestamp = good thing
[17:05] Einhander Sn0m4n: ok killed it
[17:05] Einhander Sn0m4n: Kool!
[17:05] Einhander Sn0m4n: everything's workin again
[17:05] pcgallegos: cool.
[17:06] Einhander Sn0m4n: LOL
[17:07] pcgallegos: consider me away for a bit so I can debate this bitch.
[17:08] Einhander Sn0m4n: k
[17:28] Einhander Sn0m4n: hey you still attacking her?
[17:28] pcgallegos: ...yes
[17:28] Einhander Sn0m4n: ouch
[17:30] pcgallegos: I have her...
[17:30] Einhander Sn0m4n: GOOD!
[17:30] Einhander Sn0m4n: KILL IT!! NOW!!
[17:30] pcgallegos: Will be posting in forum in a bit...
[17:30] Einhander Sn0m4n: And post the .. ok
[17:30] pcgallegos: but for now, I'm still MIA
[17:30] Einhander Sn0m4n: k
[17:43] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:42:15 PM): I am sayign that God dictated it, therefor who literally wrote it does not make a difference !!!
[17:43] Einhander Sn0m4n: egad! That isn't natural!
[17:44] Einhander Sn0m4n: Tell her that God's language is mathematics
[17:44] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:43:02 PM): They were prophets because God chose to use them
saviorlover2000 (5:43:09 PM): I'll concede to that
Pcgallegos (5:43:13 PM): He uses them...now isn't that nice.
[17:44] Einhander Sn0m4n: and that his laws are the laws of physics
[17:44] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:43:25 PM): not taking atvantage of them
saviorlover2000 (5:43:35 PM): *advantage*
Pcgallegos (5:43:45 PM): In what way? He used themto write the Bible. I wouyld say that's taking advantage of them.
[17:44] pcgallegos: Maybe.
[17:44] Einhander Sn0m4n: oh wait, we're talkin LIL g, not BIG G
[17:44] pcgallegos: Maybe I'll get to that
[17:44] pcgallegos: No, Big G.
[17:45] Einhander Sn0m4n: BIG G=the Universe
[17:45] Einhander Sn0m4n: Lil g=christian god
[17:45] pcgallegos: Ah.
[17:45] Einhander Sn0m4n: their god
[17:45] pcgallegos: Yah.
[17:45] pcgallegos: <~~ Former Catholic
[17:46] Einhander Sn0m4n: The Universe is God, "God" is just a name for the concept
[17:46] Einhander Sn0m4n: LOL I c that
[17:46] Einhander Sn0m4n: almost got baptized as southern baptist
[17:46] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:44:45 PM): taking advantage is usually considered using someone for your purposes, not theres
saviorlover2000 (5:44:51 PM): the writers of the Bible were revealed the truth
saviorlover2000 (5:45:08 PM): it was written for everyone's benefit, including their own
Pcgallegos (5:45:20 PM): He used them for the purpose of revealing his truth...revealing his truth was his purpose. Therefore, he took advantage of them.
Concession accepted?
[17:46] Einhander Sn0m4n: W0000T!!!
[17:48] pcgallegos: Pcgallegos (5:46:20 PM): And if it was for everyone's benefit, then GOd's benefit is included.
saviorlover2000 (5:46:21 PM): being a messenger of God would not be considered taking advantage
Pcgallegos (5:46:32 PM): Hardly!
saviorlover2000 (5:46:52 PM): use means He was willing to let them know the truth and proclaim it to others
saviorlover2000 (5:47:09 PM): it doesn't mean "hey you, you don't want to spread the word/ Too bad I'm God and I need you"
Pcgallegos (5:47:17 PM): He told them the truth and (as YOU have said before) told them to write it down.
[17:48] pcgallegos: Should I concession accepted her?
[17:49] Einhander Sn0m4n: YES!!!!
[17:49] Einhander Sn0m4n: KILL SHOT!
[17:49] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:47:23 PM): yes
Pcgallegos (5:47:38 PM): So I have caught you in your own trap.
saviorlover2000 (5:47:44 PM): how?
Pcgallegos (5:47:49 PM): That is taking advantage of someone.
Pcgallegos (5:48:07 PM): Using them (telling them to do it, and having htem do it) is taking advantage of them'
[17:49] Einhander Sn0m4n: good
[17:49] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:48:20 PM): no more then a teacher telling their student a fact and telling them to write a report on it is
Pcgallegos (5:48:38 PM): God = teacher, student - prophet. I think I win.
[17:50] Einhander Sn0m4n: Ya Got Her!
[17:51] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:49:07 PM): in that analogy, yes you are correct
saviorlover2000 (5:49:11 PM): but how does that mean you win?
saviorlover2000 (5:50:03 PM): the teacher doesn't need their help, she has them do it for their good, as well as the good of those hearing it
Pcgallegos (5:50:07 PM): I think I win the argument...a teacher telling a student to do a report and having the student actually do the report is taking advantage. If the stuent were to rebel, then it would not.
[17:51] pcgallegos: Not yet...
[17:51] Einhander Sn0m4n: Then the teacher/God punishes
[17:51] Einhander Sn0m4n: by suspension/damning to Hell
[17:52] Einhander Sn0m4n: Tell her that E. Sn0 -+31337+- is on your other line
[17:52] pcgallegos: Heh lol thats ok
[17:52] Einhander Sn0m4n: heeheehee >:)
[17:53] Einhander Sn0m4n: >-)
[17:53] pcgallegos: She's fucking 13!!!
[17:54] Einhander Sn0m4n: she needs powerful methods to break the brainwashing's deathgrip on her
[17:55] pcgallegos: Pcgallegos (5:50:07 PM): I think I win the argument...a teacher telling a student to do a report and having the student actually do the report is taking advantage. If the stuent were to rebel, then it would not.
saviorlover2000 (5:50:37 PM): how is that taking advantage?
saviorlover2000 (5:50:51 PM): would you like to argue that schools are now taking advantage of their children?
Pcgallegos (5:50:59 PM): She has them so it for theior good, but she also has them do it period. What if the students wishes not to do it?
Pcgallegos (5:51:17 PM): ANd then, if the stuident rebels, the teacher punishes.
[17:55] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:51:19 PM): that isn't the case wqith the prophets
saviorlover2000 (5:51:36 PM): He wouldn't choose them if they were not willing
Pcgallegos (5:51:42 PM): Really? If a prophet were to rebel he wouldn't be punished?
Pcgallegos (5:51:47 PM): Is that so?
saviorlover2000 (5:51:56 PM): He would not be a prophet in the first place
Pcgallegos (5:52:05 PM): Really...hm.
Pcgallegos (5:52:22 PM): May I ask you a quick question?
[17:55] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:52:25 PM): sure
Pcgallegos (5:52:33 PM): Just for my reference, how old are you?
saviorlover2000 (5:52:40 PM): 13
Pcgallegos (5:52:44 PM): Ah. Ok.
saviorlover2000 (5:52:54 PM): tsk, that happens whenever I reveal my age
saviorlover2000 (5:52:56 PM): u?
Pcgallegos (5:53:13 PM): No wonder you are so bad at logic...go to school some more and debat eme again in five years. I'm 18.
[17:55] pcgallegos: Pcgallegos (5:53:32 PM): I also hang around a lot of people that argue these things all the time.
Pcgallegos (5:53:40 PM): That are genberally five+ years older than I am.
saviorlover2000 (5:53:46 PM): when did this argument become personal?
saviorlover2000 (5:53:58 PM): many on the board disagree with you and they are decades older
Pcgallegos (5:53:58 PM): I just wanted to know...back on topic.
Pcgallegos (5:54:09 PM): I know, and they would use the same arguments.
saviorlover2000 (5:54:20 PM): so age is not an issue
[17:56] pcgallegos: Pcgallegos (5:55:08 PM): Not really...I just wanted oto make wure you weren;t in over your head, is all.
saviorlover2000 (5:55:14 PM): lo;
saviorlover2000 (5:55:16 PM): *lol*
saviorlover2000 (5:55:22 PM): g2g
saviorlover2000 (5:55:25 PM): bye
Pcgallegos (5:55:30 PM): Well, I'd like to see him make ME want to see His way.
[17:56] pcgallegos: saviorlover2000 (5:55:08 PM): God's sovereignty can make people want to do His good
[17:56] Einhander Sn0m4n: LOL
[17:56] pcgallegos: Concession Acceopted! WooHoo! She signed off!
[17:56] Einhander Sn0m4n: Tell her that E. Sn0 -+31337+- sez hi
[17:56] Einhander Sn0m4n: FUCK!!!
[17:57] Einhander Sn0m4n: Post THIS chatlog ok?
[17:57] pcgallegos: I did just now.
[17:57] Einhander Sn0m4n: good
[17:57] pcgallegos: lonmg post,btw
[17:57] Einhander Sn0m4n: LOL I'll bet
[17:58] pcgallegos: Urgh...can't type for shit today.
[17:58] Einhander Sn0m4n: ROFLMAO!
[17:58] pcgallegos: It took my best not to cuss that entire time....
[17:58] Einhander Sn0m4n: I can believe it
[17:58] pcgallegos: I was SOOOOOOOOOO tempted to say damned/fucking/whatever so many times...
[17:58] Einhander Sn0m4n: Did you get the E.Sno wants ta say hi part?
[17:58] Einhander Sn0m4n: BRB
[17:59] pcgallegos: No.
[18:08] Einhander Sn0m4n: back
[18:08] Einhander Sn0m4n: aww LOL
[18:09] pcgallegos: lol
[18:25] Einhander Sn0m4n: ok where is the Rebel Base?
[18:25] pcgallegos: ???
[18:25] Einhander Sn0m4n: your thread
[18:25] pcgallegos: called Deabte with creatioistalltheway in SLAM
[18:25] Einhander Sn0m4n: ok

I can safely say that VERILON GETS THE MEDAL!!!

[Utsanomiko]

So supposedly, God, as the omniceint creator of everything (therefore knew how everything would occur in the universe before creating it, choosing to let everything happen the way it does and will), created some of us with the intention that we will not be 'saved'. God let me reach the atheistic conclusions and decisions that I have made most of my life, only to send me to hell when I die for it. He could have let me just stick to being an ignorant non-denominational Christian, but nope, I've got to be a pre-determined set 'example' for everyone else.

What a pompous bastard, even for a mountain god. It's even worse than my malicious experiments in The Sims, where I'd create a family solely for the purpose of destroying them all. I could've let Paul and Jane live, but for their 'sins', they had to set off those firecrackers in the livingroom, and *FWOOMP*, down they went, fire and brimstone.

But it was all ok, once I turned the fridge to face the wall (and after a few days of 'fasting'), little Johnny Died For Their Sins.

[haas mark]

So supposedly, God, as the omniceint creator of everything (therefore knew how everything would occur in the universe before creating it, choosing to let everything happen the way it does and will), created some of us with the intention that we will not be 'saved'. God let me reach the atheistic conclusions and decisions that I have made most of my life, only to send me to hell when I die for it. He could have let me just stick to being an ignorant non-denominational Christian, but nope, I've got to be a pre-determined set 'example' for everyone else.

What a pompous bastard, even for a mountain god. It's even worse than my malicious experiments in The Sims, where I'd create a family solely for the purpose of destroying them all. I could've let Paul and Jane live, but for their 'sins', they had to set off those firecrackers in the livingroom, and *FWOOMP*, down they went, fire and brimstone.

But it was all ok, once I turned the fridge to face the wall (and after a few days of 'fasting'), little Johnny Died For Their Sins.

<~~ Needs to buy The Sims.

[Ted]

Jesus fucking Christ on a sybian, 13? My lord, they get them young now, dont they? It's almost like a new Hitler Youth.

[haas mark]

Jesus fucking Christ on a sybian, 13? My lord, they get them young now, dont they? It's almost like a new Hitler Youth.

More or less.

[Exonerate]

I was posting stuff on Neopets, asking if people thought evoluton was true... Like 7 said no, 2 said yes, and one believed in microevolution, but not macroevolution.

[Darth Wong]

Creationism has been very successful in America. Its followers like to believe that this says something about the strength of creationism rather than the ignorance of Americans.

PS. I don't mean to offend any of you yankees, but you know as well as I do that there are a lot of fucking morons creeping around in your country.

[HemlockGrey]

Jesus fucking Christ on a sybian, 13? My lord, they get them young now, dont they? It's almost like a new Hitler Youth.

I'm 13 and Christian. Though, I'm not a YEC or anything.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Creationism has been very successful in America. Its followers like to believe that this says something about the strength of creationism rather than the ignorance of Americans.

PS. I don't mean to offend any of you yankees, but you know as well as I do that there are a lot of fucking morons creeping around in your country.

No offense taken, I rather like you guys from the north even if you say "about" kinda funny.

California is not so bad, but we have our share of book banner types.

{edit} be=but

[Exonerate]

Creationism has been very successful in America. Its followers like to believe that this says something about the strength of creationism rather than the ignorance of Americans.

PS. I don't mean to offend any of you yankees, but you know as well as I do that there are a lot of fucking morons creeping around in your country.

Haha, too true. A reason for that is because many people here are born into religious families. Another is that our country simply has so many people with internet access. California isn't too bad; most of the people I know there are fairly liberal.

[neoolong]

That and our education system is pretty weak.

Exonerate, I would think that the wide availability to the internet would mean that everyone would just look up porn all the time instead of learning anything.

[haas mark]

Dare I post the debate she is bringing on me now...?

[TrailerParkJawa]

Exonerate, I would think that the wide availability to the internet would mean that everyone would just look up porn all the time instead of learning anything.

I only use the internet for research. Ive never heard of places like SD.net and Yahoo groups.

[haas mark]

Part II: Why she even bothered, I really don't know.

saviorlover2000 (12:07:57 AM): hey verilon/jarylin
Pcgallegos (12:08:02 AM): hello.
Pcgallegos (12:08:11 AM): how did you figure me out?
saviorlover2000 (12:08:24 AM): stardestroyer.net
Pcgallegos (12:08:31 AM): Ah. I see.
Pcgallegos (12:08:42 AM): We welcome your debate over there anytime, you know.
saviorlover2000 (12:09:03 AM): by the way, thanks for posting my private convo. Why'd you bother asking in the creationweb form?:-P
Pcgallegos (12:09:21 AM): Becuase we poste verything in SD.
saviorlover2000 (12:09:43 AM): lots of familiar faces there
Pcgallegos (12:10:11 AM): And because we consider ouselves invading your board for banning one of our members arbitrarily. We are trying ot get to SBollinger becuase he is being a bigot.
saviorlover2000 (12:10:20 AM): so how'd u do it? Different ip addresses?
Pcgallegos (12:10:23 AM): And jegs is treating me the same way.
saviorlover2000 (12:10:26 AM): I'm sending this convo to SB
Pcgallegos (12:10:34 AM): Yes....ah, the joys of college campuses.
Pcgallegos (12:11:05 AM): And you know what? there are too many over at SD for you guys to stop.
saviorlover2000 (12:11:17 AM): thanks a lot
Pcgallegos (12:11:19 AM): I'm just one of the primary "invaders."
Pcgallegos (12:11:24 AM): thanks for what?
Pcgallegos (12:11:27 AM): I don't care.
Pcgallegos (12:11:40 AM): You can IP ban me all you want, it doesn't solve anything.
Pcgallegos (12:11:52 AM): I personally wante dtoi argue the Bible for my own personal beliefs.
saviorlover2000 (12:12:04 AM): then why try to make it so no one can post?
Pcgallegos (12:12:05 AM): I got IP banned as verilon for defending Vymer
Pcgallegos (12:12:30 AM): I'm not making it so no one can post...it's possible, you just have to know logic.
Pcgallegos (12:12:46 AM): There is science, even in the Bible, you just have to look for it.
saviorlover2000 (12:12:58 AM): I'm not gonna play by your ideas of what is and isn't acceptable logic
Pcgallegos (12:13:22 AM): Why?
Pcgallegos (12:13:29 AM): It's my debate, I'm allowed to.
Pcgallegos (12:13:34 AM): I set the rules.
saviorlover2000 (12:15:17 AM): well if you want to get a debate you don't do it by invading a board and having spammers come and annoy us
Pcgallegos (12:15:49 AM): Ah, but YOU don't disallow the rules set in the debate.
Pcgallegos (12:16:16 AM): And we aren't spamming. We're debating our agnostic/atheistic beliefs against yours.
saviorlover2000 (12:16:28 AM): e sno wasn't spamming?
saviorlover2000 (12:16:36 AM): if you want a debate then stay.
Pcgallegos (12:16:40 AM): Well, he was, but he admitted that,
Pcgallegos (12:16:50 AM): And he says Hi, by the way.
Pcgallegos (12:16:52 AM): Dunno why.
saviorlover2000 (12:16:54 AM): but if you want a fight then don't
saviorlover2000 (12:16:55 AM): lol
Pcgallegos (12:17:26 AM): I don't want a fight, I want a RATIONAL debate, not a slew of Bible quotes that someone just pulled up to try to prove me wrong.
Pcgallegos (12:17:52 AM): Quotes aren't going to solve anything if they don't mean anything to one side of the argument, if you see mypoint.
saviorlover2000 (12:18:04 AM): then I have nothing wrong with the "invasion". But don't post in bible discussion asking to disregard the Bible
saviorlover2000 (12:18:19 AM): or such
saviorlover2000 (12:18:30 AM): and please for future reference, before posting what I say, ASK
Pcgallegos (12:18:31 AM): Honestly, I didn't know where else to post it...
Pcgallegos (12:18:59 AM): I will. But I am not asking your permission to post this conversation. You send it to SB, I will post this at SD. Deal?
saviorlover2000 (12:19:07 AM): sure
Pcgallegos (12:19:15 AM): Ok.
Pcgallegos (12:20:29 AM): So why did you IM me?
saviorlover2000 (12:20:56 AM): to see if you really were verilon
Pcgallegos (12:21:14 AM): Ah. Makes sense enough. And if I had told you I wasn't verilon?
saviorlover2000 (12:21:48 AM): then I would have asked you about stardestroyer.net and to explain
Pcgallegos (12:21:55 AM): I figured.
Pcgallegos (12:23:41 AM): Is that all?
saviorlover2000 (12:24:05 AM): sure

[neoolong]

Hmmm. Followers are starting to trickle in. I wonder how many will actually try to debate rationally.

[haas mark]

Hmmm. Followers are starting to trickle in. I wonder how many will actually try to debate rationally.

Obviously, none of them.

[neoolong]

Hmmm. Followers are starting to trickle in. I wonder how many will actually try to debate rationally.

Obviously, none of them.

I meant try, but you're probably right.

I doubt that any of the mods will show up, considering how they'll be treated for deleting our posts and banning our people.

[haas mark]

Hmmm. Followers are starting to trickle in. I wonder how many will actually try to debate rationally.

Obviously, none of them.

I meant try, but you're probably right.

I doubt that any of the mods will show up, considering how they'll be treated for deleting our posts and banning our people.

As well they shouldn't!