Why didn't the Alliance pay off Solo's Debt

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-09-16 11:23pm

The Alliance does a lot of strange things. Or more specificaly does not do things.

Another example I remember is Lara Nostal. She was an Imperial Intelegence agent who hacked into the NR database and laid a trap for an X-Wing squadron which was all but destroyed. She then returned to Imperial Service. She took on another persona then when that Star Destroyer was destroyed as the Capitans sex slave and was rescued by the New Republic.

During this period things got knocked around in her head. She came to see the Empire as corrupt and untrustworthey and decided to hang onto Lara Nostil (her current persona) and help Rogue/Wraith squadrons bring down the Empire. She made great strides towards this, then her identiy was exposed and she fled back to Warlord Zsnji. There she worked from the inside, sabotaging his SSD and damn near getting him killed, saved Wedge and Tycho's lives as well as a heep of priosners from getting blown up, then faked her own death.

Later they get a message from a 'Kirney Slane' who is of course Lara, inviting the only survivior of the X-Wing squadron she destroyed to try and work things out. Because they had fallen in love and he had forgiven her for what she had done when she was 'soemone else'.

The strange thing is that despite both Wedge and Han acknowledging that what she had done for them grossly outweighed what she had done against them, that she was not remotly the same person anymore, that the only option if she came back would be the death penalty.

Why in the hell couldn't have Han and Wedge talked to Leia, who could have talken to Mon Mothma and gotten a pardon? I'm bloody sure Han and Wedge could have easily convinved Leia who could have easily convinced the President. But no, they just carry on and we never hear from her again.

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2004-09-16 11:28pm

I wouldnt be so sure about Leia convincing Mon Mothma with Borsk Fey'lya on the other side.

As for Han, I remember reading that he was accosted by pirates just outside of Tatooine when he was going to pay his debt with the "Death-Star" money. But that was EU so it may not be "cannon" (I still dont fully understand cannon yet)

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-09-17 12:10am

DoctorPhanan wrote:I wouldnt be so sure about Leia convincing Mon Mothma with Borsk Fey'lya on the other side.

The entire Council hardly needs to know. I'm sure Mon Mothma can perform SOME acts without having to hold Borsks hand. He didn't get that much power until the Thrawn trilogy from what I remember. Of course it then fell appart horribly at the Kantana Fleet.

generator_g1 · Post by **generator_g1** » 2004-09-17 04:01am

Maybe giving pardons also mean lots of paperwork. Paperwork that can be traced by Fey'lya's stooges and be reported to their boss.

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2004-09-17 04:24am

Yeah but as Chris had pointed out, at this point Fey'lya hadnt gotten his status yet. As the bothans havent even been Martyred at this point.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2004-09-17 05:00am

Stravo wrote:At the end of ANH its obvious they paid Han for his services in rescuing the Princess. He's packing the money away as Luke is leaving. So why couldn't he just fly out to Tatooine after the Battle of Yavin and pay Jabba off? And if Han was indeed as valuable as Leia and Reikeen thought in ESB why didn't the Alliance simply pay off his debt. Or hell, a rebel assault force sweeps in, assualts Jabba's palace and are off Tatooine before the Imperials can react.

Well maybe Jabba didn't want to listen on that ear anymore after Han didn't pay and the rebel alliance also relied on smugglers for various stuff, might not be good to piss off one the bigest smugglers, logistically speaking.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-09-17 05:21am

DoctorPhanan wrote:Yeah but as Chris had pointed out, at this point Fey'lya hadnt gotten his status yet. As the bothans havent even been Martyred at this point.

Ummmmm yes they have. Its just that Fey'lya isn't the powermad moron he was in the Thrawn Saga.

Further, its politicaly hard to ATTACK this move given how much Lara has done for them. And the fact that it was HIS idea to set loose dozens of the worst criminals in the universe to simply distract the Empre on Courscant. An idea that led to nothing but problems with the Bacta cartell.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-09-17 05:33am

Emm, I do not know whether these were posted:
Leila was nearly a one person heiress of all off-world assets of Alderaan. (Think about insurances for the members of the royal family for example.)
It is likely that Solo receieved 2+15 thousand credits for carrying the droids to safety alone plus an unknown amount of money for rescuing Leia. He offered Jabba a plus 20% when Kenobi proposed the 17,000, so the original dept could not be more than 35,000 and likely it was far less (since Solo offered a 'little' plus and when Jabba demanded 20% he did not try to bargain) (source: ANH novelisation).
The TESB novelisation states that Solo wanted to leave and pay off Jabba many times, but something tied him with the rebells. However, prior to the founding the Echo base, they met a bounty hunter on Ord Mantel and Solo got it as the very last warning before a full scale hunt. This is why he wanted to leave when the base was set up. But then Luke disappeared ...

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2004-09-17 05:43am

Chris OFarrell wrote:
DoctorPhanan wrote:Yeah but as Chris had pointed out, at this point Fey'lya hadnt gotten his status yet. As the bothans havent even been Martyred at this point.
Ummmmm yes they have. Its just that Fey'lya isn't the powermad moron he was in the Thrawn Saga.

Further, its politicaly hard to ATTACK this move given how much Lara has done for them. And the fact that it was HIS idea to set loose dozens of the worst criminals in the universe to simply distract the Empre on Courscant. An idea that led to nothing but problems with the Bacta cartell.

No they havent. This is pre-TESB and the Bothans were martyred stealing the Death Star plans from the Empire. But I dont see how it would be difficult to attack the move, as he hasnt proposed to set loose the criminals, and he would probably be able to get Ackbar on his side as well. If he were in power that is...

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-17 10:20am

DoctorPhanan wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:
DoctorPhanan wrote:Yeah but as Chris had pointed out, at this point Fey'lya hadnt gotten his status yet. As the bothans havent even been Martyred at this point.
Ummmmm yes they have. Its just that Fey'lya isn't the powermad moron he was in the Thrawn Saga.
No hey havent. This is pre-TESB and the Bothans were martyred stealing the Death Star plans from the Empire.

Nope. Every last one of the X-Wing novels takes place AFTER RotJ, and especially the Wraith ones, what with them being based out of Coruscant and all (the very first Wraith squadron novel starts with the Rogue's triumphant return to Coruscant, after all...)

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-17 12:24pm

DoctorPhanan wrote:Yeah but as Chris had pointed out, at this point Fey'lya hadnt gotten his status yet. As the bothans havent even been Martyred at this point.

The Bothans got their status from getting the Death Star plans in Return of the Jedi, so they WERE famous already. HOWEVER, Borsk was just a normal council member at this time, holding no more authority than Ackbar.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-17 12:27pm

You're right, come to think about it. It's EXTREMELY silly. I mean, she causes the destruction of 11 X-wings against the New Republic. Then she helps kill an Imperial Warlord, helps catch Zsinj, helps destroy a Super Star Destroyer, and all in all, does a hundred times more damage than she caused.

I think that's worth a pardon, no? Considering that the Rebels before would pardon previous activities if someone joined them, during the Alliance.

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2004-09-17 08:20pm

Oh I see... sorry I was thinking that the time frame was Between ANH and TESB instead of TESB and ROTJ. As to why Han didnt pay Jabba back with the Death Star/ Princess Leia Rescue reward.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-09-18 06:46am

Praxis wrote:You're right, come to think about it. It's EXTREMELY silly. I mean, she causes the destruction of 11 X-wings against the New Republic. Then she helps kill an Imperial Warlord, helps catch Zsinj, helps destroy a Super Star Destroyer, and all in all, does a hundred times more damage than she caused.

I think that's worth a pardon, no? Considering that the Rebels before would pardon previous activities if someone joined them, during the Alliance.

She wilfully committed treason against the NR. If an Iraqi joined the US army and got a unit ambushed and killed but then went on to shoot Saddam for us are you saying he should be pardoned. The fact of the matter is Notsil, or whatever she's called this week, swore and oath to the NR and undoubtably signed their eqyivilant of an Official Secrets act and she shattered that oath. Also she was in place for some time, killing Talon Squadron is her only documented crime, only holy joe knows how many more she committed.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-18 09:40am

Lord Pounder wrote:She wilfully committed treason against the NR. If an Iraqi joined the US army and got a unit ambushed and killed but then went on to shoot Saddam for us are you saying he should be pardoned.
-snip

Actually, it was more in line with the Iraqi getting a unit ambushed, then went on to shoot Saddam as well as being a key player in smashing a convoy of WMD. Besides, I don't think it's too farfetched for one to argue that she was under enemy induced temporary insanity when she committed her acts of treason (especially since we know that she had a literal identy crisis).

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-09-18 10:59am

Lord Pounder wrote:
Praxis wrote:You're right, come to think about it. It's EXTREMELY silly. I mean, she causes the destruction of 11 X-wings against the New Republic. Then she helps kill an Imperial Warlord, helps catch Zsinj, helps destroy a Super Star Destroyer, and all in all, does a hundred times more damage than she caused.

I think that's worth a pardon, no? Considering that the Rebels before would pardon previous activities if someone joined them, during the Alliance.
She wilfully committed treason against the NR. If an Iraqi joined the US army and got a unit ambushed and killed but then went on to shoot Saddam for us are you saying he should be pardoned.

She was at first an Imperial Intelegence agent working undercover for her GOvernment on a mission. Its not like she was working for the NR, then decided to betray it and join the Empire. She was already working FOR them. Then things got banged around and she came to realise that the Empire and what it stood for was evil. ANd she became a completly loyal agent of the NR who are GREAT personal risk under no compulsion, infiltrated the enemy and made multiple and major contributions to his destruction far above and beyond the call of duty.

Further the Allience has a history of accepting Imperial Defectors, even those who have PERSONALY killed Allience forces. Sontier Fell being a classic example, he has far more blood on his hands then Garr/Lara ever did yet the NR gladly welcomed him in. Hell Gara just sliced that Data File, she never killed anyone direcctly. Or how about the Alliance setting lose 16 of the worst Criminals in a GALAXY loose with pardons, simply because they wanted to distract the Empire?

Hell no. The Alliance HAS to be consistent. If they happily do these things, then they bloody can forgive someone who has BEEN forgiven by her squadron (and the last survivor/leader of the unit she helped destroy) and made such a massive impact on the battlefield.

And that is her only crime as far as the books are concerned, she was a sleeper agent who was used only for that mission. Not to mention somwhat brainwashed by Imperial Intelegence from childhood.

She:

* Sliced a Datafile which led an X-Wing unit into an ambush from which only 1 fighter escaped (a straight up military engagement,not shooting up children here).

Against:

* She exposed a major black market scam on board a training frigate that had kept costing the NR fighters 'lost' to the black market.

* She liberated the prisoners from the genetic experements on Iron Fist where they were being tortured and reprogramed and got them off the ship.

* She sabotaged Iron Fist making it possible for the NR to inflict so much damage that it was later destroyed powerered down in drydock waiting for repairs.

* She liberated the information on multiple secret brainwashing programs deep inside the NR including sleeper programs that were set to drive the Republic appart based on species lines.

* She provided key tactical information during the engagements by hacking and broadcasting diagnostic and damage report data to the NR fleet on all of the warlords ships.

* She saved Wedge Antilles life by escaping from Iron Fist in her X-Wing and shooting down the Tie Raptors set to blow him into lots of peices while he was stuck on the ground.

* She tricked the Warlord into heading into traps by feading the NR data on where she was getting him to go, and getting him to go there.

To say that she has dedicated her life to the NR and that she has abandoned the Empire is an understatement. To shake her hand then shoot her is to denegrate the insane and selfless risks she took to help the said Republic. She defected and has proven her loyalty. Simple as that.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-09-18 01:05pm

He was too busy running around with the Alliance to go pay Jabba, he mentions a bounty hunter they ran into on Ord Mandrill, and still he waited til they were set up on Hoth before telling them he had to go.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-18 05:04pm

Good point about Imperial defectors. Kyle Katarn is another example.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-18 06:03pm

Not to mention General Madine.

Crazy Goji · Post by **Crazy Goji** » 2004-09-18 06:24pm

And Biggs Darklighter who was in the Imperial Navy. I think the list goes on and on.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-09-18 08:52pm

YEah Imperial defectors where welcomed, the Rebel ALliance couldn't pass up the experience. But in joining the NR undercover Lara Notsil did wilfully take and break an oath of alligiance to the New Republic and it's defence force. I will concede however that she was a total nutcase.

DSD Obi-Wan · Post by **DSD Obi-Wan** » 2004-10-03 04:37am

I think he got caught up with eveything else it was way down on the todo list. He and Luke have become very good friends that he just stayed around a little bit longer untill it was too late and the Battle for Hoth came.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-03 07:39am

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Why didn't the Alliance pay off Solo's Debt

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