"Kerry is running on his military record"

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-17 10:10am

I keep hearing this phrase. What is the basis of it? The fact that he has mentioned it on several occasions? Is that the logic? If you mention something then you are "running on" it?

Let me ask one question of the "Kerry is running on his record" crowd: do you feel that Bush is running on his religion? Because he's mentioned God a lot more times than Kerry has mentioned his Swift Boat service.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-17 10:16am

What is the basis of it? I'd say the works of Goebbels: A lie repeated often enough will become the truth.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-09-17 10:21am

It's more correct to say that he ran on his record during the primaries. He mentioned it so much then that it became a running joke for late night comedians.

He still mentions it today, but not nearly as much. I think what feeds the impression that he still does are things like the dumbshit 'reporting for duty' salute during the DNC and the pages upon pages on his website devoted to his Vietnam service.

As far as GWB running on religion goes, it's no secret that he considers himself a Christian. I'm sure some of the mentions of God are made to appeal to the religious crowd, but I'm also sure that a lot of the times they're genuinely made without any political intent.

All and all I don't see GWB's campaign as having been based on religion, though it certainly is an aspect.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-17 10:22am

Kerry has been very vocal about his military career, and he's always seeking to identify himself with the military. For example, during the DNC the films and speakers that were used highlighted his service during Vietnam while paying very little attention to, say, his career in the US Senate. Kerry also began his speech by saluting and "reporting for duty." It's pretty clear from those, and other incidents, that Kerry's image revolves around his military service. While Bush may peddle religion, for most people that is not the first image that they have of the guy and it's clearly not the first image that he wants them to have of him. With Kerry, virtually every statement he made during the primaries came back to his military service.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-09-17 10:28am

Didn't I post a thread almost identical to this one a week back?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-17 10:36am

Master of Ossus wrote:Kerry has been very vocal about his military career, and he's always seeking to identify himself with the military. For example, during the DNC the films and speakers that were used highlighted his service during Vietnam while paying very little attention to, say, his career in the US Senate. Kerry also began his speech by saluting and "reporting for duty." It's pretty clear from those, and other incidents, that Kerry's image revolves around his military service. While Bush may peddle religion, for most people that is not the first image that they have of the guy and it's clearly not the first image that he wants them to have of him. With Kerry, virtually every statement he made during the primaries came back to his military service.

I still fail to see how Bush's incessant mentioning of God is somehow less prominent than Kerry's mentionins of his military service. I think Bush mentions God so much that you've simply become desensitized to it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-17 11:11am

Darth Wong wrote:I still fail to see how Bush's incessant mentioning of God is somehow less prominent than Kerry's mentionins of his military service.

I disagree. I think Kerry's use of his military record is done much more often than Bush's use of God.

I think Bush mentions God so much that you've simply become desensitized to it.

That might be true, although I usually take issue with politicians who use Christianity constantly.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-09-17 12:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:I still fail to see how Bush's incessant mentioning of God is somehow less prominent than Kerry's mentionins of his military service. I think Bush mentions God so much that you've simply become desensitized to it.

Over here any politician rounding of a speech with "God bless Sweden" would be considered insane, not even our Christian democrats do that. In the US it seems to be the norm though, even Kerry does it IIRC.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-17 12:56pm

CJvR wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I still fail to see how Bush's incessant mentioning of God is somehow less prominent than Kerry's mentionins of his military service. I think Bush mentions God so much that you've simply become desensitized to it.
Over here any politician rounding of a speech with "God bless Sweden" would be considered insane, not even our Christian democrats do that. In the US it seems to be the norm though, even Kerry does it IIRC.

Does anyone remember Bush's National Day of Prayer?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-17 01:07pm

I'm pretty sure June 10 is still Jesus Day in Texas because of Bush.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-17 02:15pm

Glocksman wrote: As far as GWB running on religion goes, it's no secret that he considers himself a Christian. I'm sure some of the mentions of God are made to appeal to the religious crowd, but I'm also sure that a lot of the times they're genuinely made without any political intent.

Like anything Bush says has zero political intent.

Every time Bush mentions God in his speeches, he is trying to appeal to the religious community. That means he is "running on religion", far more so then Kerry was running on his war record.

All and all I don't see GWB's campaign as having been based on religion, though it certainly is an aspect.

More of an aspect then Kerry's Vietnam military career is to the Kerry campaign, which was Mike's point.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-09-17 02:37pm

I see him as running on his military record, mainly because he hasn't bothered to create any other form of platform besides 'I'm not Bush'.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-09-17 02:39pm

Every time Bush mentions God in his speeches, he is trying to appeal to the religious community. That means he is "running on religion", far more so then Kerry was running on his war record.

I use the word 'God' a lot, but that doesn't mean I'm religious. It's just an expression that's commonly used by most people in the US, even non religious ones.

Of course Bush is appealing to the religious, as they're part of his base and he wants to shore up his support, but that doesn't make his every single mention of God into a calculated political move as he is genuinely a Christian.

My impression of Mike's question was that he was asking if Bush was 'running on his religion' as a primary aspect of his campaign. The answer to that is no he's not. Unless you consider his religion to be 'Terrorism' or 'Security'

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-17 02:55pm

Darth Wong wrote:I keep hearing this phrase. What is the basis of it? The fact that he has mentioned it on several occasions? Is that the logic? If you mention something then you are "running on" it?

Let me ask one question of the "Kerry is running on his record" crowd: do you feel that Bush is running on his religion? Because he's mentioned God a lot more times than Kerry has mentioned his Swift Boat service.

When you get up during your convention and use the line, "I'm Johny Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty..." complete with a salute, you start to make it an issue. Not to mention the vets he surronded himself with on the podium, and the entire convention focused on his service in Vietnam. That tends to make it a major issue.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-17 02:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:
CJvR wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I still fail to see how Bush's incessant mentioning of God is somehow less prominent than Kerry's mentionins of his military service. I think Bush mentions God so much that you've simply become desensitized to it.
Over here any politician rounding of a speech with "God bless Sweden" would be considered insane, not even our Christian democrats do that. In the US it seems to be the norm though, even Kerry does it IIRC.
Does anyone remember Bush's National Day of Prayer?

Sorry... why does this matter?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-09-17 03:23pm

Talon Karrde wrote:When you get up during your convention and use the line, "I'm Johny Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty..." complete with a salute, you start to make it an issue. Not to mention the vets he surronded himself with on the podium, and the entire convention focused on his service in Vietnam. That tends to make it a major issue.

It was Bushy-boy who made military credentials and military imagery a major issue. Especially when he appeared in his Junior Commander FlightSuit™ costume on the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner hung up for his benefit. You remember, that famous photo-op which now has an ever-increasing irony value to it?

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-17 03:31pm

Patrick Degan wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:When you get up during your convention and use the line, "I'm Johny Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty..." complete with a salute, you start to make it an issue. Not to mention the vets he surronded himself with on the podium, and the entire convention focused on his service in Vietnam. That tends to make it a major issue.
It was Bushy-boy who made military credentials and military imagery a major issue. Especially when he appeared in his Junior Commander FlightSuit™ costume on the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner hung up for his benefit. You remember, that famous photo-op which now has an ever-increasing irony value to it?

Bush never brought up Vietnam.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-17 03:32pm

Glocksman wrote: I use the word 'God' a lot, but that doesn't mean I'm religious. It's just an expression that's commonly used by most people in the US, even non religious ones.

I do too, but I never say things like "may God protect us!" and "may God bless us all" or "may God protect us from activist judges!" and I'm guessing that you don't either.

My impression of Mike's question was that he was asking if Bush was 'running on his religion' as a primary aspect of his campaign. The answer to that is no he's not. Unless you consider his religion to be 'Terrorism' or 'Security'

Of course he's not, but neither is Kerry's military record a primary aspect of his campaign which was the real point that Mike was making. The Bush example just illustrates it.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-09-17 03:39pm

Talon Karrde wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:When you get up during your convention and use the line, "I'm Johny Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty..." complete with a salute, you start to make it an issue. Not to mention the vets he surronded himself with on the podium, and the entire convention focused on his service in Vietnam. That tends to make it a major issue.
It was Bushy-boy who made military credentials and military imagery a major issue. Especially when he appeared in his Junior Commander FlightSuit™ costume on the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner hung up for his benefit. You remember, that famous photo-op which now has an ever-increasing irony value to it?
Bush never brought up Vietnam.

No, he just has his operatives do it for him. They also handle the job of smearing real war veterans against whom Bush and the rest of the GOP 101st Screaming Chickenhawk Brigade have no real credibility.

Oh, and Bush's alleged service in the Air National Guard was touted as part of his Commander-in-Chief credentials in his ghostwritten biography and his first campaign for the White House.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-17 03:54pm

Patrick Degan wrote:It was Bushy-boy who made military credentials and military imagery a major issue. Especially when he appeared in his Junior Commander FlightSuit™ costume on the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner hung up for his benefit. You remember, that famous photo-op which now has an ever-increasing irony value to it?

*smack* You think it's a good idea to bail out of a plane in a suit? I'd like to see you try...

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-09-17 04:01pm

Beowulf wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:It was Bushy-boy who made military credentials and military imagery a major issue. Especially when he appeared in his Junior Commander FlightSuit™ costume on the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner hung up for his benefit. You remember, that famous photo-op which now has an ever-increasing irony value to it?
*smack* You think it's a good idea to bail out of a plane in a suit? I'd like to see you try...

And the Point just whizzes over your head, doesn't it? I suppose it would have been simply impossible for that carrier to, oh, I don't know, perform this little-known manoeuver sometimes referred to as docking so that Dear Leader doesn't have to fly out to the ship to make his little speech. But then, he wouldn't have had the opportunity for that nice little photo-op in which he got to play the part of a carrier pilot on TV and look like Mr. War-Prezident, now would he?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-17 04:19pm

Patrick Degan wrote: And the Point just whizzes over your head, doesn't it? I suppose it would have been simply impossible for that carrier to, oh, I don't know, perform this little-known manoeuver sometimes referred to as docking so that Dear Leader doesn't have to fly out to the ship to make his little speech.

Yes, and delay everyone's trip home. IIRC wasn't that carrier coming home
after a fucking long deployment?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-09-17 04:27pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Yes, and delay everyone's trip home. IIRC wasn't that carrier coming home
after a fucking long deployment?

I'm not too sure about that. The claim has been made that the carrier's arrival was intentionally delayed so Bush could stay onboard overnight. But I've never seen that substantiated, it would seem like a very pointless thing to do anyway, since an S-3 or C-2 could easily have flown him far enough out to meet the carrier that he'd have all the time needed.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-17 05:17pm

The Kernel wrote:Of course he's not, but neither is Kerry's military record a primary aspect of his campaign which was the real point that Mike was making. The Bush example just illustrates it.

I have to disagree with you, there. Bush's campaign is based around his War on Terrorism and security. Kerry's platform really has very little substance to it other than his military service, right now.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-17 05:23pm

The thing about Bush's religion vs Kerry's war record is that it is very easy to criticize someone for their service in Vietnam. Look at everything that's been leveled against Kerry about that. But its really hard to pick someone apart because of their religious leanings. Try to come up with an effective negative ad campaign that paints bush as the bad guy for being religious. You will just make more people hate you than not.

You can accuse Kerry of running on his war record because that makes him look like a bad guy. But you cant accuse Bush of using religion for something as base as politics, because that makes you look like a bad guy, especially when Bush can just stand up and say "I go to church every Sunday. God bless America." When you get right down to it, far too many people in this country see "running on religion" as a virtue rather than a vice. It's just as scummy, though.

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