STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 01:41pm

SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Why would Monacora give a damn about his sovereignty when they're doing something Monacora doesn't like?
Why would he give a damn about telling Monacora what he's doing with his special ops forces?
Threat of asskicking. Promise of trade agreements. Potential alliances. You know, all those things nations exercise over each other every day, but you're completely unfamiliar with.

Oh, I'm familiar, but why would Straha need to know about them at all until they're used or he actually bothers to carry out intel ops? What he doesn't know can't be used as leverage.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-21 01:43pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: Nope. You guys did. We defended one of our allies from someone not in the Unification, and the Unification just goes and blindsides us. We hardly initiated war with you.
It'd be asking alot for you to stop being a hypocritical little liar and keep the IC in the IC thread, wouldn't it?

Again, as we've been over, the Alliance made this a war. The Unification was standing back, ready to grab Thirdfain's leash if he did more than he vowed he would. But, you leapt straight into the trap, turning this from a well-contained tragedy to a full blown war. The Alliance declared war as a bloc. The Unification responded. Deal with it.
Who's lying? The Ousters are not in the Unification, they were unilaterally attacking an Alliance member, the purpose of the Alliance is to keep such things from occurring, and you honestly think we wouldn't do anything about it?

Of course not, retard. That's why my message specifically said 'Trap'. Everyone could see it was a trap in the OOC thread. Quite a few probably saw it IC. Doesn't matter; you still started the war on it's current magnitude.

Besides, as any sane human being can see, Thirdfain's stated goals are inhuman and unacceptable to civilized societies. His stated goal was to murder over 6 million civilians! What part of this do you not comprehend?

I comprehend it, you pathetic little moron. I also comprehend that full scale war between the Alliance and Unification, the only possible outcome of your actions, will make six million dead seem like a bad flu season. Any sane person would realize this well in advance.

The Unification is going to war to prevent us from stopping the Ouster genocide, and now as my populace sees it, they are trying to put an end to the Republic. What do you think they're going to do, eh? Agitate for me to stop fighting so they can be rolled up and added to the Asgard Stellar Empire? I think not.

They might surrender to avoid being crushed like bugs, as people are wont to do. But no, they won't. Because you can't play ICly, you have to bring the OOC into it.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-21 01:44pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: Nope. You guys did. We defended one of our allies from someone not in the Unification, and the Unification just goes and blindsides us. We hardly initiated war with you.
It'd be asking alot for you to stop being a hypocritical little liar and keep the IC in the IC thread, wouldn't it?

Again, as we've been over, the Alliance made this a war. The Unification was standing back, ready to grab Thirdfain's leash if he did more than he vowed he would. But, you leapt straight into the trap, turning this from a well-contained tragedy to a full blown war. The Alliance declared war as a bloc. The Unification responded. Deal with it.
Who's lying? The Ousters are not in the Unification, they were unilaterally attacking an Alliance member, the purpose of the Alliance is to keep such things from occurring, and you honestly think we wouldn't do anything about it? Besides, as any sane human being can see, Thirdfain's stated goals are inhuman and unacceptable to civilized societies. His stated goal was to murder over 6 million civilians! What part of this do you not comprehend? The Unification is going to war to prevent us from stopping the Ouster genocide, and now as my populace sees it, they are trying to put an end to the Republic. What do you think they're going to do, eh? Agitate for me to stop fighting so they can be rolled up and added to the Asgard Stellar Empire? I think not.

Well, 6 million casualties is no genocide, it's a slightly larger tragedy. You just blow it out of proportions with this moral highground thing you like to claim...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 01:55pm

SirNitram wrote:They might surrender to avoid being crushed like bugs, as people are wont to do. But no, they won't. Because you can't play ICly, you have to bring the OOC into it.

How is not wanting to be subjects of a far-away emperor an OOC motivation to not surrender when I can muster the forces to blunt that assault in the span of an hour?

As for allowing mass murder on any pretext without a fight, that is something I will not do.

Well, 6 million casualties is no genocide, it's a slightly larger tragedy.

Killing mass amounts of people simply for being of a particular nationality or ethnicity = genocide. What the Ousters are doing is genocide, and any claim that it is not is simply ludicrous. Hitler killed 6 million Jews for the horrible crime of being Jews; are you next going to claim that that was not genocide?

You just blow it out of proportions with this moral highground thing you like to claim...

If you can't even comprehend the simple immorality of standing by and doing nothing while millions of people die then I'm not even going to bother.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-21 02:00pm

Rogue 9 wrote:

Oh look, no reply to how the Alliance started the war. Must have conceeded.

Of course, it'll just come up again in your little whine-o-matic.

SirNitram wrote:They might surrender to avoid being crushed like bugs, as people are wont to do. But no, they won't. Because you can't play ICly, you have to bring the OOC into it.
How is not wanting to be subjects of a far-away emperor an OOC motivation to not surrender when I can muster the forces to blunt that assault in the span of an hour? As for allowing mass murder on any pretext without a fight, that is something I will not do.

Didn't notice your little 11th hour retcon there. (Heh. 'Aw crap, I can't pull a propaganda coup out of potentially sacrificing billions. Guess I better get my ass in gear.') In any case, not submitting when the options are 'Submit or die by the million' would rather contradict what you said afterwards, wouldn't it? No matter, you'll continue as you have.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-21 02:04pm

Rogue 9 wrote: Killing mass amounts of people simply for being of a particular nationality or ethnicity = genocide. What the Ousters are doing is genocide, and any claim that it is not is simply ludicrous. Hitler killed 6 million Jews for the horrible crime of being Jews; are you next going to claim that that was not genocide?

Given the billions of people running around, 6 million are just a drop in the ocean. A tragedy.

You just blow it out of proportions with this moral highground thing you like to claim...
If you can't even comprehend the simple immorality of standing by and doing nothing while millions of people die then I'm not even going to bother.

When you yourself shove even more millions into the furnace, I find that outrage amusing...
With populations in the multi-billions, million deaths are just tragic numbers, but quite insignificant in the end...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 02:05pm

SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Oh look, no reply to how the Alliance started the war. Must have conceeded.

Bullshit. Want me to go dig up the Unification declaration of war upon the Alliance when there was no state of war between the Alliance and Unification prior? We started nothing. The Ousters invaded the space of an Alliance member, and we moved to counteract it. There's one starting of war on the part of the Ousters. Then the Unification declares war on the Alliance out of nowhere. There's the other, on the part of the Unification. This isn't really that hard.

Didn't notice your little 11th hour retcon there. (Heh. 'Aw crap, I can't pull a propaganda coup out of potentially sacrificing billions. Guess I better get my ass in gear.') In any case, not submitting when the options are 'Submit or die by the million' would rather contradict what you said afterwards, wouldn't it? No matter, you'll continue as you have.

I never had any plans to sacrifice Mintar, you blithering imbecile. By all means, point to where I previously said I was going to sacrifice the planet, or shut up.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 02:08pm

Dahak wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: Killing mass amounts of people simply for being of a particular nationality or ethnicity = genocide. What the Ousters are doing is genocide, and any claim that it is not is simply ludicrous. Hitler killed 6 million Jews for the horrible crime of being Jews; are you next going to claim that that was not genocide?
Given the billions of people running around, 6 million are just a drop in the ocean. A tragedy.

And out of the billions of people on 1940s Earth... My, what a... tragedy, I believe you said?

You just blow it out of proportions with this moral highground thing you like to claim...
If you can't even comprehend the simple immorality of standing by and doing nothing while millions of people die then I'm not even going to bother.
When you yourself shove even more millions into the furnace, I find that outrage amusing...
With populations in the multi-billions, million deaths are just tragic numbers, but quite insignificant in the end...

So we're going to weight lives by economy of scale now? Why do we investigate murders now, and send in the police at the risks of their lives to apprehend dangerous criminals? I mean, just a few individuals at most out of the billions on the planet, right? Why bother?

I can hardly believe I'm having to explain this...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-21 02:10pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Oh look, no reply to how the Alliance started the war. Must have conceeded.
Bullshit. Want me to go dig up the Unification declaration of war upon the Alliance when there was no state of war between the Alliance and Unification prior? We started nothing. The Ousters invaded the space of an Alliance member, and we moved to counteract it. There's one starting of war on the part of the Ousters. Then the Unification declares war on the Alliance out of nowhere. There's the other, on the part of the Unification. This isn't really that hard.

Does it take work to be this stupid and out-to-lunch? The Hajr and the Unification had diplomatic ties. That the most loose alliance in Known Space didn't have shiny plaques for each of it's members means dick, you retard. The Unification retaliated when you had a massive power bloc declare war on a friendly nation, if not member. This is painfully simple.. You've even conceded to it once in this thread.. But you fight it because it's the only moral high ground you've got, and it's eroding under you.

And you're too much of a dickless wonder to play without a moral highground.

Didn't notice your little 11th hour retcon there. (Heh. 'Aw crap, I can't pull a propaganda coup out of potentially sacrificing billions. Guess I better get my ass in gear.') In any case, not submitting when the options are 'Submit or die by the million' would rather contradict what you said afterwards, wouldn't it? No matter, you'll continue as you have.
I never had any plans to sacrifice Mintar, you blithering imbecile. By all means, point to where I previously said I was going to sacrifice the planet, or shut up.

The original post, which had no calling for reinforcements. You saw the Rape, you know damn well a large chunk of a navy can drop a planetary shield and annihilate billions before reinforcements arrive. But you'll lie again. Whatever. You rip all the enjoyment out of this game because you can't play straight; you're either whining in the OOC thread, or trying to fight a propaganda war when everyone else is already fighting a real war. And your attempts at a propaganda war are the most idiotic, stunted abortions I've ever seen.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-21 02:17pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Dahak wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: Killing mass amounts of people simply for being of a particular nationality or ethnicity = genocide. What the Ousters are doing is genocide, and any claim that it is not is simply ludicrous. Hitler killed 6 million Jews for the horrible crime of being Jews; are you next going to claim that that was not genocide?
Given the billions of people running around, 6 million are just a drop in the ocean. A tragedy.
And out of the billions of people on 1940s Earth... My, what a... tragedy, I believe you said?

Out of several hundred billion people, a mere 6 million *is* hardly a drop in the water.

If you can't even comprehend the simple immorality of standing by and doing nothing while millions of people die then I'm not even going to bother.
When you yourself shove even more millions into the furnace, I find that outrage amusing...
With populations in the multi-billions, million deaths are just tragic numbers, but quite insignificant in the end...
So we're going to weight lives by economy of scale now? Why do we investigate murders now, and send in the police at the risks of their lives to apprehend dangerous criminals? I mean, just a few individuals at most out of the billions on the planet, right? Why bother? I can hardly believe I'm having to explain this...

This is no nice little city with a murderer. This is politics and statistics. It's not on the small scale, but on a very large one. But if you want to revenge every single death in this game, you have quite a task ahead...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 02:17pm

SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Oh look, no reply to how the Alliance started the war. Must have conceeded.
Bullshit. Want me to go dig up the Unification declaration of war upon the Alliance when there was no state of war between the Alliance and Unification prior? We started nothing. The Ousters invaded the space of an Alliance member, and we moved to counteract it. There's one starting of war on the part of the Ousters. Then the Unification declares war on the Alliance out of nowhere. There's the other, on the part of the Unification. This isn't really that hard.
Does it take work to be this stupid and out-to-lunch? The Hajr and the Unification had diplomatic ties. That the most loose alliance in Known Space didn't have shiny plaques for each of it's members means dick, you retard. The Unification retaliated when you had a massive power bloc declare war on a friendly nation, if not member. This is painfully simple.. You've even conceded to it once in this thread.. But you fight it because it's the only moral high ground you've got, and it's eroding under you.

Even if so, that still leaves the massive problem of the Hajr being the aggressor here.

Didn't notice your little 11th hour retcon there. (Heh. 'Aw crap, I can't pull a propaganda coup out of potentially sacrificing billions. Guess I better get my ass in gear.') In any case, not submitting when the options are 'Submit or die by the million' would rather contradict what you said afterwards, wouldn't it? No matter, you'll continue as you have.
I never had any plans to sacrifice Mintar, you blithering imbecile. By all means, point to where I previously said I was going to sacrifice the planet, or shut up.
The original post, which had no calling for reinforcements.

No calling for... Oh, for the love of God...

Rogue 9 wrote:Vice Admiral Davis stood up from his command chair on the Protector. "Comms, send for reinforcements, everything anyone can spare, now!

Just what do you call that?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-21 02:20pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Even if so, that still leaves the massive problem of the Hajr being the aggressor here.

Yep. And the ones who escalated it from a few million dead to a multi-nation slaughter... The Alliance! While I don't agree with Dahak's casual dismissal, anyone can realize this path is going to result in billions, if not trillions, dead. Real nice job preventing genocide.

No calling for... Oh, for the love of God...
Rogue 9 wrote:Vice Admiral Davis stood up from his command chair on the Protector. "Comms, send for reinforcements, everything anyone can spare, now!
Just what do you call that?

The edit you stealthily made, as I saw the original post. Nice try. Fucktard.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 02:24pm

SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Even if so, that still leaves the massive problem of the Hajr being the aggressor here.
Yep. And the ones who escalated it from a few million dead to a multi-nation slaughter... The Alliance! While I don't agree with Dahak's casual dismissal, anyone can realize this path is going to result in billions, if not trillions, dead. Real nice job preventing genocide.

We were going to drive off the attack, not start conquering planets. That escalation lies squarely with the Unification.

No calling for... Oh, for the love of God...
Rogue 9 wrote:Vice Admiral Davis stood up from his command chair on the Protector. "Comms, send for reinforcements, everything anyone can spare, now!
Just what do you call that?
The edit you stealthily made, as I saw the original post. Nice try. Fucktard.

...

I HAD TO GO TO ORCHESTRA REHEARSAL, YOU 'TARD! ASK FRIGID, ASK MARCAO, ASK ANYONE IN THE STGOD THAT I WAS TALKING TO ON AIM AT THE TIME, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT I WAS PLANNING TO DEFEND THE PLANET!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-21 02:27pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Even if so, that still leaves the massive problem of the Hajr being the aggressor here.
Yep. And the ones who escalated it from a few million dead to a multi-nation slaughter... The Alliance! While I don't agree with Dahak's casual dismissal, anyone can realize this path is going to result in billions, if not trillions, dead. Real nice job preventing genocide.
We were going to drive off the attack, not start conquering planets. That escalation lies squarely with the Unification.

Anyone reading the threads see you started a full war, not an active defense. Caught lying again.. Tut tut.

No calling for... Oh, for the love of God... Just what do you call that?
The edit you stealthily made, as I saw the original post. Nice try. Fucktard.
...

I HAD TO GO TO ORCHESTRA REHEARSAL, YOU 'TARD! ASK FRIGID, ASK MARCAO, ASK ANYONE IN THE STGOD THAT I WAS TALKING TO ON AIM AT THE TIME, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT I WAS PLANNING TO DEFEND THE PLANET!

Ahhh. I'm the retard because I read English and don't hunt down your allies every time you do something moronic in the STGOD. Yes, that makes perfect sense..

It couldn't be because you were a raging idiot.. AGAIN! ..And didn't bother to leave anything indicating you'd be back to add more, just as folks have done in the STGOD before. Nah. It couldn't be your fault, you're just perfect!

My god, what a buffon you are. What's next, attacking my typos when I point out your propaganda stunts are insignifigant?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 02:46pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Or, you know..he could keep his sovereignty

From my nation's eyes Monacora's survival > Other Nation's Sovereignty.

The only reason why we're still around today is our Army, if someone else, anyone else, has a part of their army that can operate on the same or higher level then ours, or is even trying to achieve that level of ability, in conventional operations, we're coming down on them like a sack of bricks. Because, otherwise, we're doomed, and then our sovereignty goes down the toilet.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-21 02:49pm

Straha, lots of nations can feild commandoes who are better than your field troops. A Blackeyes is a better fighter than a Monacoran GI, so is a Veithan assassin or a Krell SPECFOR. The SPARTANS are specfor troops who will NEVER be able to match the Monacoran Army in the field.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 02:56pm

Thirdfain wrote:Straha, lots of nations can feild commandoes who are better than your field troops. A Blackeyes is a better fighter than a Monacoran GI, so is a Veithan assassin or a Krell SPECFOR. The SPARTANS are specfor troops who will NEVER be able to match the Monacoran Army in the field.

You mistake the point. A Blackeye is a better fighter then one of my GIs, but a Blackeye unit looses its advantage should they fight one of my platoons/squads/companies/etc. Ditto with all spec ops forces. BUT, the SPARTAN program (if it follows the HALO module) will produce fighters who are trained in ripping new rear ends in both spec ops operations, and in full-fledged conventional operations. Now extrapolate, if he can make one SPARTAN company now, he can make Regiments over the time to come, each one able to kick my ass, unless I resort to numbers (something my Army does not like to do, I really need to post a doctrine post sometime soon) I start going down. Now, if I can cut that off before it starts, all the better for me.

As I said, it's like Britain and it's navy strategy before WWI. If anyone anywhere starts building a bigger/better Navy than Britain, Britain either has to stop them or build at a faster pace. Either way, the other nation (Germany for example) shall soon be at the long end of Britain's foreign policy stick, unless it shapes up right away.

EDIT: Clarified a point

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-21 03:01pm

Hell, I doubt that a unit of Monacorans can beat an equal number of Blackeyes. Blackeyes are far stronger, faster, and can telepathically co-ordinate with extreme skill.

On the other hand, they are FAR more expensive to train, nearly impossible to replace, and I have perhaps 1-2 hundred combat Blackeyes in the whole Hajr.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2004-09-21 03:09pm

Rogue 9 wrote: We were going to drive off the attack, not start conquering planets. That escalation lies squarely with the Unification.

Not to split hairs but you don't actually need to declare war to mount a defense against an enemy attack. If the Alliance had simply sent as many ships as possible to the planet's defense then the Hajr would have been forced to either abort or get their asses handed to them. Because war was declared, it was seen as an indication that the Alliance intended to return the favour and send warships into Hajr territory.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-21 03:12pm

Spyder has it spot on. I even ggave you guyys time to reinforce him.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-21 03:49pm

Straha wrote:BUT, the SPARTAN program (if it follows the HALO module) will produce fighters who are trained in ripping new rear ends in both spec ops operations, and in full-fledged conventional operations. Now extrapolate, if he can make one SPARTAN company now, he can make Regiments over the time to come, each one able to kick my ass, unless I resort to numbers (something my Army does not like to do, I really need to post a doctrine post sometime soon) I start going down. Now, if I can cut that off before it starts, all the better for me.

My SPARTANS and IMMORTALS right now are like the ODST from HALO. But soon the will be modified like the SPARTANs from HALO. However I will also be modifing my IMMORTALS division as well. I expect only half of them to survive, leaving me with a Full division. About half of them will have MJOLNIR-like armor. The rest will be using normal armor. but to get anywhere near a full regiment will take months and months. The modifications to the troops themselves wont take that long but making the armor will.

And I will just keep it very secert

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-09-21 03:53pm

Thirdfain wrote:Spyder has it spot on. I even ggave you guyys time to reinforce him.

If I'd been around that week, I probably would have, but I really didn't want to force a retconning.
My official IC excuse is that we were too optimistic of the chances of the Veithan investigation defusing the problem.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-21 04:05pm

Nope. You guys did. We defended one of our allies from someone not in the Unification, and the Unification just goes and blindsides us. We hardly initiated war with you.

The only reason you got blindsided is you're a fool. There is no formal membership in the Unification; if you had paid any attention at all you might have noticed it doesn't work like your Alliance. The fact that you missed the fact that nearly all of the other members had ties is your own fault; that fact alone should have tipped you off.

1.) Unjustly so, and 2.) are now escalating the war in a big way.

1) Frankly IN CONTEXT, the Unification has a far better justification for war than you do. We all know OOC that Thirdfain staged the attack but In Context, which is the only one that counts, we're fighting a war after you guys attacked a party seeking justice.

As good two shoes, fucking sweetness and light as you play your people I'm suprised you haven't had massive protests over your defense of the White Sun. Come to think of that I might have to change that.

For a good half an hour while I gather my fleet. Ooooooo, scary!

You initialy had them running for their lives. When you figured out that was a terrible idea, you pulled a cheap ass edit. Nice work.

You do realize that even that temporary withdrawl is going to look really, really bad in the public eye if I win?

Yep.

If you think that you're either smoking the good shit or are massively retarded.

Nope.

Guess we know which one it is then.

It won't have to.

Now that your edit has restored some semblance of your testicles to you.

Fine, but that is basically what they're going to do at first.

Good for you. I'll be waiting for the OOB.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 04:18pm

1) Frankly IN CONTEXT, the Unification has a far better justification for war than you do. We all know OOC that Thirdfain staged the attack but In Context, which is the only one that counts, we're fighting a war after you guys attacked a party seeking justice.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Justice? Are you mad? We're talking about mass murder, here!

As good two shoes, fucking sweetness and light as you play your people I'm suprised you haven't had massive protests over your defense of the White Sun. Come to think of that I might have to change that.

You can't and won't, because I was acting to stop a mass murder. Even if their government was guilty, Thirdfain's response of attacking their civilians was wildly inappropriate.

You initialy had them running for their lives. When you figured out that was a terrible idea, you pulled a cheap ass edit. Nice work.

My God, what in God's name are you talking about? I edited in the rest of the post after the initial post because I had to run before I was done typing it. I've explained this already.

You do realize that even that temporary withdrawl is going to look really, really bad in the public eye if I win?

You do realize that simply handing you my navy to destroy piecemeal will guarantee your win and will look even worse?

Now that your edit has restored some semblance of your testicles to you.

The edit Nitram's whining about was made last night the minute I got back from dinner, before anyone had any chance to point anything out to me.

Good for you. I'll be waiting for the OOB.

Why are you still waiting? It's been up since I posted that. The only edit that was made to my in-game post today was to add the OOB to the end.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-21 04:20pm

The edit Nitram's whining about was made last night the minute I got back from dinner, before anyone had any chance to point anything out to me.

Yeah, except for the people here in the OOC thread that told you that was a dumbass move and that it would kill your morale. You know, like Nitram and I.

Why are you still waiting? It's been up since I posted that. The only edit that was made to my in-game post today was to add the OOB to the end.

Ah, well you know the usual route is to not edit them in afterwards.

Oh, and just for the record. I'll now be taking screenshot of your posts to prevent the sort of retconning you're engaged in.