STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-21 05:20pm

Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.

The largest number of troops with mods and armor will come out to about a regiment. however that does not limit my training, i could train my troops that remain unmodded to near the same level

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-21 05:21pm

Agent Fisher wrote:The largest number of troops with mods and armor will come out to about a regiment. however that does not limit my training, i could train my troops that remain unmodded to near the same level

Not in any number. As has been mentioned, Straha sacrificed to get that and it doesn't go away with out some one making the same.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-21 05:24pm

all right, i will cut down the SPATANS(HALO TYPE) project to at the most a company and a half, meaning anywhere from 1 to 225. Would that be acceptable.

However I am still going to keep my SPARTAN and IMMORTAL division at the skill level of the ODSTs(HALO)

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-21 05:26pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.
The largest number of troops with mods and armor will come out to about a regiment. however that does not limit my training, i could train my troops that remain unmodded to near the same level

Fair enough, so you will have one regiment akin to the "ACS" in John Ringo's Posleen Universe. A powered armor highly trained force that will be very badass. However, keep in mind however, that this group will be more expensive to field and maintain that an equivalent Monacoran Regiment. As such, while one on one this regiment of yours may give one Monacoran regiment some grief, Monacora may not even try and play fair, and as such, unless you handle this regiment skillfully, you are out of luck.
You can train your regular troops as much as you want, but ultimately, no single "regular" army regiment you have will have parity with a Monacoran regiment. I believe that it was decided that one Monacoran Regiment is roughly equivalent to two regiments of everyone else. (is that right? it was a 2-1 advantage ne?)

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-21 05:30pm

Marcao wrote:
Agent Fisher wrote:
Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.
The largest number of troops with mods and armor will come out to about a regiment. however that does not limit my training, i could train my troops that remain unmodded to near the same level
Fair enough, so you will have one regiment akin to the "ACS" in John Ringo's Posleen Universe. A powered armor highly trained force that will be very badass. However, keep in mind however, that this group will be more expensive to field and maintain that an equivalent Monacoran Regiment. As such, while one on one this regiment of yours may give one Monacoran regiment some grief, Monacora may not even try and play fair, and as such, unless you handle this regiment skillfully, you are out of luck.
You can train your regular troops as much as you want, but ultimately, no single "regular" army regiment you have will have parity with a Monacoran regiment. I believe that it was decided that one Monacoran Regiment is roughly equivalent to two regiments of everyone else. (is that right? it was a 2-1 advantage ne?)

well since it seems that it most people dont want me to have a regiment, i will cut it down

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-09-21 05:34pm

Hmm, Tycho outright ditches Washington D.C., New York, and California, and nobody says a word?

Time for an antagonist controlled Earl in the House O' Lords, methinks.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 05:35pm

Darksider, at least Straha and Stormbringer had the decency to talk to me about it when they did commerce raiding. Now then, even assuming that Frigid agreed to that in advance (which I know he didn't), I have a few problems with your execution. How did you know precisely where those freighters were so you could jump in right on top of them with that precision? How did you not trip his early warning network? Did you account for the possibility of escort? Patrols? Possible losses? Anything at all? Or did you just enter god mode and start killing things?

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-21 05:38pm

1. They're called trade routes. All the cruiser has to do is park near one, and wait for a ship flying the UP flag to come by

2. What fucking early warning network? I'm outside his territory

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-21 05:38pm

Then there is that thing with... you know, the fact that his vessels would be in hyperspace

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-21 05:39pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Darksider, at least Straha and Stormbringer had the decency to talk to me about it when they did commerce raiding. Now then, even assuming that Frigid agreed to that in advance (which I know he didn't), I have a few problems with your execution. How did you know precisely where those freighters were so you could jump in right on top of them with that precision? How did you not trip his early warning network? Did you account for the possibility of escort? Patrols? Possible losses? Anything at all? Or did you just enter god mode and start killing things?

I just read the post and I will be watching the answers provided before proceeding. as it stands right now, I don't like the post but I will wait and see how Rogue's questions are answered.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-21 05:42pm

Darksider wrote:1. They're called trade routes. All the cruiser has to do is park near one, and wait for a ship flying the UP flag to come by

2. What fucking early warning network? I'm outside his territory

1. Did you know that countries entering hostilities tend to change those trade routes?

2. Funny, then why the FUCK are those ships coming out of hyper OUTSIDE of their ports? If you are going to pull this sort of shit, use fucking interdictors. That is part of the reason why they are there for! Without using interdictors, ships only exit hyperspace within the system where they are headed to. If you want to hit convoys -without- interdictors, you are either hitting them as they leave or as they arrive, and guess what? both times, that is within an actual system, not deep space land.

3. Please please please please, put a little effort into posts of this nature. That is really all that we ask, a nice, brief set up were you explain or gloss over the how and why you know where the ships will be and so on. It prevents shit like this from happening.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-21 05:42pm

Also, as for escorts, He wouldn't have anything bigger than a cruiser guarding a ship OUTSIDE of his territory.
He has a massive enemy fleet just waiting for a chance to hit somthing, and he needs all his ships to guard his worlds.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-21 05:43pm

Fine, I'll edit the post in order to borrow or send some interdictors

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-21 05:48pm

Darksider wrote:Fine, I'll edit the post in order to borrow or send some interdictors

Which will take time, if you don't have them already. I hope you're ready to settle in and wait.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-21 05:50pm

Marcao wrote:You can train your regular troops as much as you want, but ultimately, no single "regular" army regiment you have will have parity with a Monacoran regiment. I believe that it was decided that one Monacoran Regiment is roughly equivalent to two regiments of everyone else. (is that right? it was a 2-1 advantage ne?)

A Monacoran regiment is the size of a division. A division is made up of two to four brigades, each of which is also composed of 2-4 regiments. So a Monacoran Regiment is about 10 times the size of a regular regiment.

Basic normal army structure:
squad -> platoon -> company -> battlion/regiment -> Brigade -> divison -> corp -> army

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-21 06:13pm

I've talked it over with Marco, and I'm going to work it out with Frigid when he gets back

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 07:16pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Straha wrote:
Agent Fisher wrote: If you had my worlds on catolouge my people would have rejoined the galaxtic community sooner
You probably missed the probes, for whatever reason there may be to miss it. We wouldn't know anything about your world's culture, governance, etc. But we would know you were there, and would have a rough idea for technological ability/orbital structures.
And why is that? Because it's convenient for you to be able to keep him in line? You don't get what you want just because it makes things easier on you.

No, because we sent probes to every system imaginable when we were hunting the Overseer. To say that 'my home planets are near known space, but you don't know about them yet!' when we went on the single biggest hunt in the history of the galaxy looking for any sign of technology in the nearby vicinity is just... wrong, no two ways about it.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-21 07:20pm

Straha wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Straha wrote: You probably missed the probes, for whatever reason there may be to miss it. We wouldn't know anything about your world's culture, governance, etc. But we would know you were there, and would have a rough idea for technological ability/orbital structures.
And why is that? Because it's convenient for you to be able to keep him in line? You don't get what you want just because it makes things easier on you.
No, because we sent probes to every system imaginable when we were hunting the Overseer. To say that 'my home planets are near known space, but you don't know about them yet!' when we went on the single biggest hunt in the history of the galaxy looking for any sign of technology in the nearby vicinity is just... wrong, no two ways about it.

perhaps my place was on the list but you found the overseer before you found my planets.

edit:
my point is that, just because you searched alot of places, doesnt mean you searched mine.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-21 08:48pm

I am willing to allow some leeway when it comes to the Agent Fisher situation. Yes, most of known space sent oodles of drones all over the place in order to find the overseer. This does not mean however, that we accurately mapped all space near Known Space. Considering that this is a new nation, I am willing to make some allowances to that end. Perhaps the Drones that were tasked to scan his systems met tragic ends, were duds, were pushed off course due to stellar phenomena, whatever. The point remains, that if Agent Fisher wants his nation to start with a blank slate, and with no one knowing his position so be it. We did not know about where the Lying Darkness was when they appeared, I personally don't see a problem towards granting Agent Fisher a bit of anonimity. Obviously, now that he is running around making contact, that anonimity will be a lot harder to maintain.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 09:32pm

Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.

Monacoran GI's are the most capable in Known Space. That is not going to change for the foreseeable future. However, other nations special forces can take on Monacoran GI's assuming roughly equal numbers.

If I may interject here, I disagree. It's my thinking that each Army would have one or two elite divisions outside of the Spec Ops, and that these units would be able to take my regular units on with rough parity skill-wise (equipment disadvantages yes, but relative parity all the same) and, if you pulled the right combination of tactics and luck you might be able to pull a victory if you have numbers on your side, and these guys fighting the brunt of the burden. The flip-side of this is that my elite units (the Monacoran Tenth, Duncan's Division, and the Monacoran First) would be able to summarily do the same thing to any other unit's, elite or not, ass.

Opinions?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-21 09:44pm

I'm with you Straha. Not that Fisher doesn't deserve a good army, but you sacrificed a WHOLE lot to have the best army in the game, and it is only proper that it stays that way. Unless anyone wants to retcon you a full fleet....

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 10:21pm

Bugsby wrote:I'm with you Straha. Not that Fisher doesn't deserve a good army, but you sacrificed a WHOLE lot to have the best army in the game, and it is only proper that it stays that way. Unless anyone wants to retcon you a full fleet....

My point was not that he couldn't have the SPARTANS (not that I disagree with the ruling, mind you) but that having the SPARTANS would make me come down on him like a starving Sumo Wrestler would on a tray of suishi.

My point in my previous post, however, was that every army has its Sumo wrestler Division(s) that can go head to head, toe to toe with almost anybody, as long as its understood that I'm that anybody.

Now what I'm interested in seeing is what would happen if someone had an army of cripples, but put all that extra focus in their navy, and weren't mercenaries.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-21 10:34pm

Straha wrote:Now what I'm interested in seeing is what would happen if someone had an army of cripples, but put all that extra focus in their navy,...

If somebody played British then they'd by pretty much unbeatable except in case of a major coalition against them. Compared to Monacora, they would be far more formidible, because your army can be neutralized in ways that a fleet can't. OTOH, you can afford to soak up some fleet losses without losing too much on the ground, whereas our fair Brits would be right fucked in case of a naval defeat.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-21 10:45pm

Straha wrote:Now what I'm interested in seeing is what would happen if someone had an army of cripples, but put all that extra focus in their navy, and weren't mercenaries.

Power to mercs! Capital is king! Armies are for wussies! Long live the Combine!

*marches away, still ranting and blowing on a trumpet*

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-21 10:56pm

Bugsby wrote:
Straha wrote:Now what I'm interested in seeing is what would happen if someone had an army of cripples, but put all that extra focus in their navy, and weren't mercenaries.
Power to mercs! Capital is king! Armies are for wussies! Long live the Combine!

*marches away, still ranting and blowing on a trumpet*

Here's a dollar, practice some more before you start playing in public again...