Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.
Monacoran GI's are the most capable in Known Space. That is not going to change for the foreseeable future. However, other nations special forces can take on Monacoran GI's assuming roughly equal numbers.
If I may interject here, I disagree. It's my thinking that each Army would have one or two elite divisions outside of the Spec Ops, and that these units would be able to take my regular units on with rough parity skill-wise (equipment disadvantages yes, but relative parity all the same) and, if you pulled the right combination of tactics and luck you might be able to pull a victory if you have numbers on your side, and these guys fighting the brunt of the burden. The flip-side of this is that my elite units (the Monacoran Tenth, Duncan's Division, and the Monacoran First) would be able to summarily do the same thing to any other unit's, elite or not, ass.
Opinions?
I get it. I have reduced the number to 225 at the beginning. And if i get lucky and they arent all killed that number would grow slowly.
I think everyone thought where it said SPARTAN division in my OOB, i meant a division of Master Chiefs. What I meant was a division of ODST, in terms of HALO.
Marcao wrote:2. SPARTANS: Here is my two cents on how I see Spartans. I have no problem believing that these can be developed, and that Agent Fisher will manage to develop them covertly. Seriously, as long as he covers his ass, and plays things safely within his own nation I can see no short term reason for the secret to get out any time soon. However, the limitation remains that pound for pound, no army irregardless of the justification will be able to field something that rivals Monacora. The reasoning is simple, Monacora sacrificed a real navy for her army, and as such, I am not interested in taking away the Monacora advantage at the drop of a hat. This is not to say however, that Agent Fisher cannot field small and potent forces of SPARTAN or their equivalents. I agree with the assertion that Thirdfain's Blackeyes for example, and other highly trained special units, can go toe to toe against Monacoran forces of similar size and win. The large limiting factor, is that Monacora can field far larger numbers than these forces.
Monacoran GI's are the most capable in Known Space. That is not going to change for the foreseeable future. However, other nations special forces can take on Monacoran GI's assuming roughly equal numbers.
If I may interject here, I disagree. It's my thinking that each Army would have one or two elite divisions outside of the Spec Ops, and that these units would be able to take my regular units on with rough parity skill-wise (equipment disadvantages yes, but relative parity all the same) and, if you pulled the right combination of tactics and luck you might be able to pull a victory if you have numbers on your side, and these guys fighting the brunt of the burden. The flip-side of this is that my elite units (the Monacoran Tenth, Duncan's Division, and the Monacoran First) would be able to summarily do the same thing to any other unit's, elite or not, ass.
Opinions?
I get it. I have reduced the number to 225 at the beginning. And if i get lucky and they arent all killed that number would grow slowly.
No, you obviously didn't get it because that wasn't directed at you, it was a suggestion I made to the STGOD in general about my opinion on the caliber of ground forces. If you thought that it was intended at you, my apologies for making it seem that way.
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Straha wrote:No, you obviously didn't get it because that wasn't directed at you, it was a suggestion I made to the STGOD in general about my opinion on the caliber of ground forces. If you thought that it was intended at you, my apologies for making it seem that way.
I think we should be able to use them. Hell, they are just as involved in this game as the Psilons are, and the UPA gets to use Psilon fleets. I think we should get a Nyllorian fleet of the same size as what the Psilons are sending. But of course, Im a bit biased. Mods?
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Bugsby wrote:I think we should be able to use them. Hell, they are just as involved in this game as the Psilons are, and the UPA gets to use Psilon fleets. I think we should get a Nyllorian fleet of the same size as what the Psilons are sending. But of course, Im a bit biased. Mods?
The Psilons also committed to this war; Jaded Masses showed up and declared war before losing interest again, IIRC. Hemlock Grey has done no such thing.
Bugsby wrote:I think we should be able to use them. Hell, they are just as involved in this game as the Psilons are, and the UPA gets to use Psilon fleets. I think we should get a Nyllorian fleet of the same size as what the Psilons are sending. But of course, Im a bit biased. Mods?
The Psilons also committed to this war; Jaded Masses showed up and declared war before losing interest again, IIRC. Hemlock Grey has done no such thing.
Hemlock signed a mutual defense pact before he left. Now, as I recall policy, just because the guy left doesn't mean his nation dropped off the face of the earth. I mean, off the face of the galactic plate... spacetime continuum.... blah, you know what I mean.
If Hemlock were still around, he would certainly have declared war. But again, I think this is an issue best resolved by the mods. If it gets into a debate OOC, neither side would concede, Im sure.
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Straha wrote:Now what I'm interested in seeing is what would happen if someone had an army of cripples, but put all that extra focus in their navy,...
If somebody played British then they'd by pretty much unbeatable except in case of a major coalition against them. Compared to Monacora, they would be far more formidible, because your army can be neutralized in ways that a fleet can't. OTOH, you can afford to soak up some fleet losses without losing too much on the ground, whereas our fair Brits would be right fucked in case of a naval defeat.
Well, my "army" has always been just glorified marines (something, at least, where they're actually good...), but the most effort and focus in the fleet...
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Rogue 9 wrote:Decoys able to perfectly simulate capital ships? I think not.
Of course not perfectly. But enough to cause confusion until we can get the jump on em. Perfect is near impossible but "good enough to make em freeze up for a minute" is very possible.
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Rogue 9 wrote:Decoys able to perfectly simulate capital ships? I think not.
Of course not perfectly. But enough to cause confusion until we can get the jump on em. Perfect is near impossible but "good enough to make em freeze up for a minute" is very possible.
Mmmmhmmmm. If we're able to make little decoys that can convincingly simulate a kilometers-long ship with enough accuracy to give target identification sensors pause, then I want to have some at Orodan to draw off those damnable cheese-torpedoes.
Newsflash, dumbass. We ALL have them, and they ALL work. That's why incoming Kincaid torps don't score 100% hits. Some are spoofed by decoys, some are not.
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Okay. We have talk about decoys in this thread. We discuss them, we even make jokes(Decoy of a planet!), and you didn't think to use them even in the slightest?
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Rogue 9 wrote:Decoys able to perfectly simulate capital ships? I think not.
Of course not perfectly. But enough to cause confusion until we can get the jump on em. Perfect is near impossible but "good enough to make em freeze up for a minute" is very possible.
Mmmmhmmmm. If we're able to make little decoys that can convincingly simulate a kilometers-long ship with enough accuracy to give target identification sensors pause, then I want to have some at Orodan to draw off those damnable cheese-torpedoes.
Key word pause. As said it's not going to fool them for long. Your ECM actually did a decent job; it's just a little thing called concentrated, superior firepower.
As for cheese-torpedoes, all I can say is you're deliberately ignoring the trade offs inherent in Kincaid torpedos.
Thirdfain wrote:This isn't even worth any time. Decoys are considered standard equipment for any EW/PD suite.
Yes, and he expects to have pre-deployed decoys and nothing else draw the fleet into firing. They may spoof missiles, but the full sensor suites of hundreds of ships, not to mention the good ol' Mk 1 eyeball, well enough to trick them all into firing at nothing?
On a less unpleasant note, I've fired out a new flag. This one is for the Większa Rzeczypospolitej Polska- Greater Republic of Poland. She'll make a great 2/3ds nation if the Ousters are shot down. The flag's a combo of the traditional white and red of the Polish flag and an old Polish medal, the Order of the White Eagle.
Thanks, Hotfoot, for the hosting.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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Thirdfain wrote:This isn't even worth any time. Decoys are considered standard equipment for any EW/PD suite.
Yes, and he expects to have pre-deployed decoys and nothing else draw the fleet into firing. They may spoof missiles, but the full sensor suites of hundreds of ships, not to mention the good ol' Mk 1 eyeball, well enough to trick them all into firing at nothing?
Mk 1 Eyeball? At these ranges?
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Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Thirdfain wrote:This isn't even worth any time. Decoys are considered standard equipment for any EW/PD suite.
Yes, and he expects to have pre-deployed decoys and nothing else draw the fleet into firing. They may spoof missiles, but the full sensor suites of hundreds of ships
That's what they're designed to do. I see no reaosn at all that they wouldn't be capable of doing so for at least one volley under the right conditions.
Rogue 9 wrote:not to mention the good ol' Mk 1 eyeball, well enough to trick them all into firing at nothing?
Pick out the ISS with a naked eye and draw me a sketch, then we'll talk. Because until the Mk 1 Eyeball can do then it's worthless at these ranges.
Thirdfain wrote:This isn't even worth any time. Decoys are considered standard equipment for any EW/PD suite.
Yes, and he expects to have pre-deployed decoys and nothing else draw the fleet into firing. They may spoof missiles, but the full sensor suites of hundreds of ships, not to mention the good ol' Mk 1 eyeball, well enough to trick them all into firing at nothing?
Your people must have spent tremendous amounts in genetic engineering to get eyeballs that pick up fights at those ranges...
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"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Hmm... An eye can resolve about one minute of arc. So a kilometer long ships is just barely visible at 10.5 light seconds distance, and just as a dot at that. You have to be damn close to actually be able to tell with the Mk. 1 eyeball.
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