GL contradicting himself (again)

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-21 11:03pm

In ANH commentary he is contiunally saying: "I made this Epiosde IV with the intention of never seeing or making I-III because I wanted the audience to feel as if they were missing part of the story." OK, GL needs to fucking make up his mind. Either it was always intended to be 9 movies. OR it was intended to be 3 or It was always meant to be 6 movies.

He also states that he wrote these outline like backstories for each character to explain how they got to where they were. But once again stating "I wrote these back stories never thinking that I would have to make three more movies based on these back stories."

So that explains some of the shitty continuity errors between the prequels and OT.

So in the end, as many of us always suspected. He was making this shit up as he went along.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-21 11:04pm

Heck one only has to view him changing the Emperor's speech in ESB to see this.

Really at times he should've remembered what he did in his Original Trilogy.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-21 11:09pm

Well, there was a profit to be had. Lucas probably decided that he needed a few thousand more solid gold flannel shirts and hair curlers, so he went for a few more movies.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-21 11:29pm

Stravo, you take all this too literally. It's possible that at various times Lucas kicked around the idea of doing 3, 6, 9 or 12 movies. He finally settled on six. What's the big deal? He also considered making Owen and Beru midgets, and Luke was going to be a girl.

By the way, what continuity errors? Try Sturlsson if you want REAL continuity errors. SW is pretty coherent, considering.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-21 11:36pm

When Lucas made Star Wars, he didn't even know if he was going to be able to make the rest of the trilogy - that's why there's a second Death Star in #6.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-21 11:40pm

Jesus, Stravo, I think you might be taking it way to personally.

Heaven forbid someone change their mind several times or forget about something that was started 30 years ago. He's only human for Christ's sake.

From what I've heard and read on the subject, Lucas basically went sort of back and forth on how to tell the story and how much he would end up telling as he was developing it in the mid-late 70s. Initially he had too much story and backstory for one film, so he basically divided it into half and developed them seperately into sort of two sagas. He decided that he'd set the backstory aside for later, if ever at all. He seems to have had a general idea how the complete six film saga should go around the time of ANH, but made the film pretty much as a stand alone entity, and would tell the rest of the second saga if it resulted in being successful. All that time he still had the basic idea of how the first saga should go.

So why so pissed?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-22 12:06am

What it boils down to for me is that here's a guy who says originally "I have this planned out to nine movies." then years later vehmently denies he ever made that statement and that it was always supposed to be 6 and now we find out that it was essentially made up as we went along kind of structure. Don't deny the shit like we're the retarded ones twisting your words. Simply say "I changed my mind." Like Bush he will never say that. He insists on rewriting history instead of simpy saying he changed his mind.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-22 12:08am

Where does this claim for nine films come from other than Rolling Stone? Virtually everything I've read, has always basically said six.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-09-22 12:10am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Where does this claim for nine films come from other than Rolling Stone? Virtually everything I've read, has always basically said six.

Well its in my copy of Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-09-22 12:12am

What it boils down to for me is that here's a guy who says originally "I have this planned out to nine movies." then years later vehmently denies he ever made that statement and that it was always supposed to be 6 and now we find out that it was essentially made up as we went along kind of structure.

The process of writing a story is a hefty one. Maybe before he started writing, he thought, "I bet I can make fifty movies outta this!" Then when he started into things a bit, he probably thought, "Maybe it should just be twelve. Or ten. Err... nine's a nice number." Then, when he was halfway done, he thought, "If I make nine films, it'll stretch too much. Better just make it six." Then he's going, he's three-quarters of the way through, and he's thinking, "Y'know, I should just focus on the first trilogy right now. I'll make others if I have a chance."

So he finishes the first script in his trilogy and presents it to Fox, and they say, "Eh, we'll give you a million bucks." And Georgie doesn't think he'll ever have a chance to make all three of his movies, so he adapts it to make just one.

In short, don't think that a writer can see into the future. And never, NEVER think that writing is an easy task. Try it sometime.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-22 12:13am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Where does this claim for nine films come from other than Rolling Stone? Virtually everything I've read, has always basically said six.

I remember as a child when the movies first came out there were TV interviews where he stated this and my cousin and I would spend hours batting around ideas of what would the nine movies be comprised of. Also the producer Howard Kazanjian (I think its him. There's a producer involved in the OT that is now on the outs with Lucas) that stated they were planning the nine movies even during the filming of ROTJ. The ninth movie was supposed to end with Leia crowned princess of the galaxy and Luke would never have her. She was never supposed to be his sister. Sort of a downer ending.

Lucas has simply been repeating over and over again that this was simply not so instead of saying "Hey, you know what , I don't feel like doing 9 movies."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-22 12:15am

That was Gary Kurtz, I think.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-09-22 12:16am

SPOOFE wrote:
What it boils down to for me is that here's a guy who says originally "I have this planned out to nine movies." then years later vehmently denies he ever made that statement and that it was always supposed to be 6 and now we find out that it was essentially made up as we went along kind of structure.
The process of writing a story is a hefty one. Maybe before he started writing, he thought, "I bet I can make fifty movies outta this!" Then when he started into things a bit, he probably thought, "Maybe it should just be twelve. Or ten. Err... nine's a nice number." Then, when he was halfway done, he thought, "If I make nine films, it'll stretch too much. Better just make it six." Then he's going, he's three-quarters of the way through, and he's thinking, "Y'know, I should just focus on the first trilogy right now. I'll make others if I have a chance."

So he finishes the first script in his trilogy and presents it to Fox, and they say, "Eh, we'll give you a million bucks." And Georgie doesn't think he'll ever have a chance to make all three of his movies, so he adapts it to make just one.

In short, don't think that a writer can see into the future. And never, NEVER think that writing is an easy task. Try it sometime.

I believe Stravo's not annoyed with Lucas because he changed his mind over his original intent, but rather the fact Lucas is attempting to claim that the things he changes his mind about were things he originally intended, rather than simply admitting he changed his mind.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-22 12:18am

SPOOFE wrote:
In short, don't think that a writer can see into the future. And never, NEVER think that writing is an easy task. Try it sometime.

I think I may have dabbled in writing here and there.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-22 12:22am

Yeah, it's the historical revisionism on his part and the implication that his fans are delusional that upsets so many.

Is he afraid fans won't accept that he just changed his mind and didn't have the story (as we see it in 2004-5) all planned out in advance in 1976? If he told us that in the beginning a lot of this could have been avoided. B&B did the same thing with Enterprise. "oh yeah, we have this huge story-arc planned that you will find out about" .... wait no we didn't.

That we can accept, not that we take him at his word and then he backhandedly insults us for trusting him...

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-09-22 12:31am

I believe Stravo's not annoyed with Lucas because he changed his mind over his original intent, but rather the fact Lucas is attempting to claim that the things he changes his mind about were things he originally intended, rather than simply admitting he changed his mind.

I'm just simply asking, where is the original thought? Re-read the scenario I posted and tell me which thought would be "original intent".

There could be a lot of things he originally intended to do. Writers go back on their first thought all the time.

I think I may have dabbled in writing here and there.

Oh, good! Then you know exactly what I mean.

I'm just not seeing the big deal. The guy's obviously had a lot more thoughts about his story than he could ever possibly put in.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-22 12:34am

SPOOFE wrote:
Stravo wrote:I think I may have dabbled in writing here and there.
Oh, good! Then you know exactly what I mean.

I'm just not seeing the big deal. The guy's obviously had a lot more thoughts about his story than he could ever possibly put in.

Oh I totally understand about that and I have no issues about his changing mind. Hell I'm not demanding nine movies. I'm just pissed that instead of simply stating that he has changed his mind, he has admantly and vehemently denied what he DID say. He's pretending that some of us weren't around in '77. What's the point other than hubris?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-09-22 12:44am

I dunno. I DO know that an original vision for a story can be a vague and nebulous thing. Most themes in a story start out as a feeling or emotion, and the writer has to try to get that same feeling across to the audience with the imagery and dialogue that he uses.

Perhaps, after all this time, Lucas has the hindsight to look back and see wrong choices he made in trying to get that feeling across.

Or maybe he is just a prideful, egotistical bastard.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-09-22 12:44am

"STAR WARS is really three trilogies, nine films.....it won't be finished for probably another 20 years."
-George Lucas, L.A Reader - March 7, 1980

George Lucas Quotes on Sequels

Oh, and this thread reminds me of one I started a long time ago...

"I always intended..."

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-09-22 12:49am

Stravo wrote:
SPOOFE wrote:
Stravo wrote:I think I may have dabbled in writing here and there.
Oh, good! Then you know exactly what I mean.

I'm just not seeing the big deal. The guy's obviously had a lot more thoughts about his story than he could ever possibly put in.
Oh I totally understand about that and I have no issues about his changing mind. Hell I'm not demanding nine movies. I'm just pissed that instead of simply stating that he has changed his mind, he has admantly and vehemently denied what he DID say. He's pretending that some of us weren't around in '77. What's the point other than hubris?

Aside from the bit about hubris, isnt that basically what I said?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-22 12:50am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Stravo wrote:
SPOOFE wrote: Oh, good! Then you know exactly what I mean.

I'm just not seeing the big deal. The guy's obviously had a lot more thoughts about his story than he could ever possibly put in.
Oh I totally understand about that and I have no issues about his changing mind. Hell I'm not demanding nine movies. I'm just pissed that instead of simply stating that he has changed his mind, he has admantly and vehemently denied what he DID say. He's pretending that some of us weren't around in '77. What's the point other than hubris?
Aside from the bit about hubris, isnt that basically what I said?

It is, I was just answering Spoofe's question directed towards me.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-09-22 04:38am

This whole "never said/did say" business is retarded. I can go to one moviesite where they discuss this and read a quote by Mark Hamill saying "While we filmed Jedi, George told me he want me back for the sequels around 2011 (in a serious tone)".
Then I can go to another site and listen to a recent Hamill interview where he talks about joking around with Lucas during filming in 1976 about doing a sequel trilogy.
Then I can go to a third site and see a quote by Lucas about making two trilogies and then tacking on a third, just in case.

Bottom-line is NO-ONE KNOWS ANYTHING.

All these interviews with the 12 and the 9 movies, how do you know he wasn´t just pulling the interviewers leg? How do you know what was serious and what was just for laughs? We all know reporters screw up all the time, posting pure bullshit. What´s to say he only had 6 films he seriously wanted to do, or three plus three more if he had the time, and the last 6 or 3 just some thoughts or images that he might do something with...? Maybe he went back and forth on the idea and eventually ended up with six.
Only crime he´s commited seems to be denying the rumors, and even that is doubtful. He did say in one interview the sequel-trilogy was "more of a media thing than it was me". He didn´t say "I never thought of it", just that the media jumped on it easily cus SW was hot stuff.

And if there´s stuff or material there for more stories, who´s to say he won´t use it in the up-coming TV-series? Just putting it in another place or time than originally planned?