ANH: Why was Jabba so stupid?

[Rogue 9]

Okay, I've been thinking this over for a while, and I finally have to ask. Why in hell was Jabba so unbelievably stupid as to go to Docking Bay 94 himself? Especially when he believes that Han is already inside the Falcon? You know, the Millennium Falcon with that antipersonnel blaster, capital grade quad laser cannons, and likely all kinds of other goodies with which to turn him into dead meat, with the only question being regular or extra crispy? The radio drama's account of sending Heater makes infinitely more sense (though of course it doesn't override the movies, sadly enough in this instance), as Han has every motive to fry Jabba, eliminate his debt-holder, and make his escape if he comes himself and he is, in fact, inside the Falcon. (Yes, I know the other Hutts would take out a bounty on him, but it's not like he didn't have one out anyway.) So, what possessed the giant slug?

[Stofsk]

Okay, I've been thinking this over for a while, and I finally have to ask. Why in hell was Jabba so unbelievably stupid as to go to Docking Bay 94 himself?

Because Jabba is a crime boss and I think he was giving Han a second chance.

Especially when he believes that Han is already inside the Falcon? You know, the Millennium Falcon with that antipersonnel blaster,

Which we didn't see used against the Stormtroopers.

capital grade quad laser cannons,

How the fuck are those turrets going to be used while the ship is grounded?

The radio drama's account of sending Heater makes infinitely more sense (though of course it doesn't override the movies, sadly enough in this instance),

I haven't listened to the radio drama so I can't really judge which one is better. However you make it sound like Jabba came to the MF by himself, which isn't the case. If it were he would be stupid. But he came with a posse of paid thugs and malcontents, and some of them at least are just as cunning if not more so than Solo (Boba Fett) - making Jabba's visit a reasonable risk in order to throw his weight around with an unruly asset.

as Han has every motive to fry Jabba, eliminate his debt-holder, and make his escape if he comes himself and he is, in fact, inside the Falcon.

No actually - Han has every motive to keep his name clear and in Jabba's good books. Killing a prominent underworld figure may not be the most fantastic of career moves the Corellian could make; and what are the bodyguards going to be doing while Solo assassinates Jabba?

[Rogue 9]

You forget. Jabba assumed that Han was in his ship, thus all the yelling for him to come out. Those bodyguards are going to do jack shit if Jabba's right. He wasn't, thus limiting Han's ability to do anything without dying, but they didn't have any heavy weapons with them capable of damaging the Falcon.

[Stofsk]

You forget. Jabba assumed that Han was in his ship, thus all the yelling for him to come out. Those bodyguards are going to do jack shit if Jabba's right. He wasn't, thus limiting Han's ability to do anything without dying, but they didn't have any heavy weapons with them capable of damaging the Falcon.

Doesn't matter. Jabba had no reason to expect Solo, a mere smuggler, to try and kill him - hence appearing in person surrounded by a posse is a reasonable risk for him to take. If Solo did try and kill him then he has an automatic deathmark, and someone like Boba Fett would likely shoot to kill from Slave 1's cockpit.

Again why is Jabba's action stupid as opposed to reckless? At this point all Solo had against him was debt, which Jabba gave him a second chance to resolve. When Solo obviously didn't deliver the money he got from helping deliver Princess Leia and the droids to Yavin Base, Jabba put out the death mark. (I bet Greedo was probably an overeager bounty hunter and perhaps looking to settle a score, as opposed to Jabba being seriously pissed off - due to the chronology of events Jabba seemed to still consider Han one of his top men even after Solo blasted Greedo - by ESB this attitude had changed)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

In or out of the Falcon, Han attempting to kill Jabba would have been easily THE dumbest thing of both his career and his life.

[Rogue 9]

You forget. Jabba assumed that Han was in his ship, thus all the yelling for him to come out. Those bodyguards are going to do jack shit if Jabba's right. He wasn't, thus limiting Han's ability to do anything without dying, but they didn't have any heavy weapons with them capable of damaging the Falcon.

Doesn't matter. Jabba had no reason to expect Solo, a mere smuggler, to try and kill him - hence appearing in person surrounded by a posse is a reasonable risk for him to take. If Solo did try and kill him then he has an automatic deathmark, and someone like Boba Fett would likely shoot to kill from Slave 1's cockpit.

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

[Icehawk]

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

Actually it DID matter. At that point in time Han was going to have the money to pay him back and fully intended too. That giant bounty on him was not officially put out untill after the events of ANH when Han never showed to pay up due to his involvement with the rebellion.

[Rogue 9]

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

Actually it DID matter. At that point in time Han was going to have the money to pay him back and fully intended too. That giant bounty on him was not officially put out untill after the events of ANH when Han never showed to pay up due to his involvement with the rebellion.

Greedo sure thought it was put out. Furthermore, at that point it apparently allowed Han to be killed, since Greedo was going to fry him. I theorize that the later condition of Han's capture unharmed was at least partially motivated by a desire to sell information about the Rebellion gained from Han to the Empire at a tidy profit. Of course, then Fett delivered Han in carbonite, making a lovely wall hanging that would be such a shame to ruin. But at the time of ANH, either Han had a death mark on him or Greedo was just monumentally retarded.

[Stofsk]

Doesn't matter. Jabba had no reason to expect Solo, a mere smuggler, to try and kill him - hence appearing in person surrounded by a posse is a reasonable risk for him to take. If Solo did try and kill him then he has an automatic deathmark, and someone like Boba Fett would likely shoot to kill from Slave 1's cockpit.

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

AND YET JABBA DIDN'T KILL SOLO ON SIGHT. Nor did he come to dock 97 with heavy weapons capable of blasting the MF apart. Nor is it shown that the MF had that nifty antipersonnel cannon that it possesses in ESB. Nor was he (Jabba) afraid that Solo would try something so monumentally stupid as kill him.

Yes a bounty was put on Solo's head anyway - this would be AFTER Solo failed to deliver on Jabba's second chance. How many years passed between ANH and ESB? Was it three years? If so, that's THREE YEARS that Jabba was waiting for that fucking cunt of a smuggler to pay him back. After that amount of time his patience would be all but spent. However, given the dialogue between them in the docking bay it seems clear that there wasn't any hard feelings AT THAT POINT - regardless of what Greedo did. And like I speculated, Greedo's action was probably motivated more along the lines of overeagerness than any real death mark placed on Solo's head. Fuck, given the incompetence displayed by Greedo I think it's strongly implied that Jabba had Greedo do what he did knowing full well that Solo would get out of it intact, making the action a warning to Solo that Uncle Jabba was running out of patience.

[EDIT] In other words "This time it was Greedo, a low level thug - next time it'll be Boba Fett. Time to shape up, Solo."

[Rogue 9]

Nor is it shown that the MF had that nifty antipersonnel cannon that it possesses in ESB.

Yeah, meant to address this earlier. It wasn't employed against the stormtroopers because Han was outside and Chewie was busy with preflight. No one to run the thing.

[Stofsk]

Nor is it shown that the MF had that nifty antipersonnel cannon that it possesses in ESB.

Yeah, meant to address this earlier. It wasn't employed against the stormtroopers because Han was outside and Chewie was busy with preflight. No one to run the thing.

Operating the AP cannon doesn't seem to be labour intensive. At least it seemed to be fully automated in ESB - neither Han nor Chewie seemed to be operating any controls for that cannon as both were busy with preflight.

[Icehawk]

But at the time of ANH, either Han had a death mark on him or Greedo was just monumentally retarded.

I think its been pretty well established both in the movie canon and the EU especially that Greedo was in fact monumentally retarded. Just read his profile in Essential Guide to Characters. lol hell in a deleted scene from Ep 1 when he was a kid he's shown being strangled by wimpy little Anakin.

[Rogue 9]

But at the time of ANH, either Han had a death mark on him or Greedo was just monumentally retarded.

I think its been pretty well established both in the movie canon and the EU especially that Greedo was in fact monumentally retarded. Just read his profile in Essential Guide to Characters. lol hell in a deleted scene from Ep 1 when he was a kid he's shown being strangled by wimpy little Anakin.

Okay, point conceded about Greedo being retarded. But retarded enough to mistake "I want him alive" for "Kill him" coming from Jabba's mouth?

[Crayz9000]

You know, about Lucas's SE....

Lucas seems to be forgetting the #1 thing about weapons: If you point a gun at someone, you may as well shoot. It's a threat and will be treated as such.

So he didn't even have to put Greedo shooting first in the movie in the first place. Just the threat of Greedo shooting was justification enough for Han to shoot first.

[Kurgan]

Nor is it shown that the MF had that nifty antipersonnel cannon that it possesses in ESB.

Yeah, meant to address this earlier. It wasn't employed against the stormtroopers because Han was outside and Chewie was busy with preflight. No one to run the thing.

Operating the AP cannon doesn't seem to be labour intensive. At least it seemed to be fully automated in ESB - neither Han nor Chewie seemed to be operating any controls for that cannon as both were busy with preflight.

I always thought that the Falcon's guns DID take at least one or two shots at the Stormtroopers in ANH. While it wasn't the same "drop down" blaster like in ESB, it did do some heavy damage to the docking bay, blowing out torso sized chunks, etc.

I know people have argued that this is all the work of Han's DL-44 pistol, but after watching and re-watching the scene (and once I get the DVD more re-watching will be in order) the editing certainly makes it appear that all of those shots are not Han's. So what would they be? Not from the Stormies (bouncing off the Falcon's hull?), but I think the guns on the Falcon. Chewie could have punched the buttons to take a shot or two to scare off the troopers, not needing any precision, just something to jolt them while he and Solo got out of there.

Han does take some impressive shots, but the editing makes it look like more shots are fired than just the ones he squeezes off. That's a great sidearm he's got there, but I think we can freely assume that the Falcon wasn't silent during that exchange either.

Jabba does seem somewhat foolish here. He probably thinks he knows Han better than he really does, underestimating the Correllian smuggler. He was way too nice to him, even letting his poor tail get stepped on!

[VT-16]

At least he looks grumpy and menacing this time, and not like a bitch like in the ´97-version!

And there´s finally a shadow when Han moves his hand in front of Jabba, that always bothered me with the scene before, he just didn´t look like he was really there.

[Stofsk]

I always thought that the Falcon's guns DID take at least one or two shots at the Stormtroopers in ANH. While it wasn't the same "drop down" blaster like in ESB, it did do some heavy damage to the docking bay, blowing out torso sized chunks, etc.

To be honest I thought the same thing. But I never thought it was the AP cannon; I always thought that had been installed in between the two films.

[Iceberg]

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

Actually it DID matter. At that point in time Han was going to have the money to pay him back and fully intended too. That giant bounty on him was not officially put out untill after the events of ANH when Han never showed to pay up due to his involvement with the rebellion.

Greedo sure thought it was put out. Furthermore, at that point it apparently allowed Han to be killed, since Greedo was going to fry him.

And it's pretty well-established that Greedo was a retard. An overeager bounty hunter looking to make a name for himself by doing the notorious smuggler Solo (it's a good thing Han iced the boy - if he hadn't, Jabba probably would have fed him to the Rancor for killing - at the time - one of his best employees).

[Patrick Ogaard]

But at the time of ANH, either Han had a death mark on him or Greedo was just monumentally retarded.

I think its been pretty well established both in the movie canon and the EU especially that Greedo was in fact monumentally retarded. Just read his profile in Essential Guide to Characters. lol hell in a deleted scene from Ep 1 when he was a kid he's shown being strangled by wimpy little Anakin.

Okay, point conceded about Greedo being retarded. But retarded enough to mistake "I want him alive" for "Kill him" coming from Jabba's mouth?

Greedo was a gunman. A really lame gunman, but a gunman nonetheless. Consider how much of a reputation-enhancer it would have been for a pathetic gun-for-hire like Greedo to be able to boast that he'd taken down the smuggler who sent a CSA prison facility and a CSA Security Viceprex into a suborbital trajectory, the man who paid back loan shark Ploovo Two-For-One with an ill-tempered Dinko and a credit chit, the man who thumbed his nose at Gallandro the Gunman and was "involved" in Gallandro's death. Solo is the same guy who strafed Big Banji's pressure dome when Big Banji was late in making a payment. Han was sufficiently well known as a gunman prior to ANH for the infamous reptilian assassin/gunman Uul-Rha-Shan, himself a killer of galaxy-wide repute, to recognize Han Solo's name ("I have heard your name, Solo. You are, at least, worthy of the killing.).

Even if Greedo had not collected from Jabba, Greedo obviously hoped that being Han Solo's killer would have been a serious reputation-enhancer, a ticket to bigger and better kills. Greedo was overeager and stupid.

[Patrick Ogaard]

I always thought that the Falcon's guns DID take at least one or two shots at the Stormtroopers in ANH. While it wasn't the same "drop down" blaster like in ESB, it did do some heavy damage to the docking bay, blowing out torso sized chunks, etc.

To be honest I thought the same thing. But I never thought it was the AP cannon; I always thought that had been installed in between the two films.

I'm not quite convinced of shots beyond Han's going out, but even if the AP blaster had not yet been installed, the quadguns would have been at least theoretically available (and could be operated, with poor accuracy, from the cockpit), since the Falcon's guns include interrupters that slip into place to make it physically impossible for the Falcon to shoot off its ramp and landing gear when the Falcon is on the ground.

[Patrick Ogaard]

You forget. Jabba assumed that Han was in his ship, thus all the yelling for him to come out. Those bodyguards are going to do jack shit if Jabba's right. He wasn't, thus limiting Han's ability to do anything without dying, but they didn't have any heavy weapons with them capable of damaging the Falcon.

The lack of weapons capable of damaging the Falcon hasn't exactly been established. Star Wars has quite a few compact weapons capable of damaging a ship like the Falcon at close range. Pirates, of which Jabba almost certainly has a number in his employ, use weapons designed specifically to cut through hulls and bulkheads.

Proton grenades, like the ones used to take out the Endor shield generator system, are compact, armor-penetrating systems, and one or two could easily be carried unobtrusively under the baggy clothing several of the toughs were sporting.

Other possible choices are compact fusion cutters, vibroweapons (also used by stormtroopers to cut through starship bulkheads), thermal detonators or disruptors.

The disruptor option may actually be the best one. Externally, a disruptor would be little different from a blaster, but disruptors, at least at high settings, have firepower more on a par with low-end fighter grade weapons. A few thugs armed with disruptor pistols or rifles could do nasty things if standing next to or under a grounded freighter, even one as up-armored as the Falcon.

[Elfdart]

You know what happened anyway? Yeah. Bounty big enough for Boba Fett to come for him. Jabba's goons were already trying to kill him, and Greedo referenced a bounty large enough to get every bounty hunter around, presumably including Fett, on Han's case, so this wasn't a later development. It didn't matter.

Actually it DID matter. At that point in time Han was going to have the money to pay him back and fully intended too. That giant bounty on him was not officially put out untill after the events of ANH when Han never showed to pay up due to his involvement with the rebellion.

Greedo sure thought it was put out. Furthermore, at that point it apparently allowed Han to be killed, since Greedo was going to fry him. I theorize that the later condition of Han's capture unharmed was at least partially motivated by a desire to sell information about the Rebellion gained from Han to the Empire at a tidy profit. Of course, then Fett delivered Han in carbonite, making a lovely wall hanging that would be such a shame to ruin. But at the time of ANH, either Han had a death mark on him or Greedo was just monumentally retarded.

Greedo was a stupid Peter Lorre type character (complete with bug eyes!) who got lucky and cornered Solo in the bar. He was greedy and tried to keep the money for himself. Remember?

Han: But this time I've got the money.

Greedo: If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.

It's pretty obvious that Greedo is greedy and stupid. Greedo can't keep the money for himself AND let Solo walk, since the moment Jabba found out one of his stooges ripped him off, the green alien would end up in the stool of a rancor. Solo stalled him long enough to reach for his gun (because Greetard didn't tell him to keep his hands where he could see them ). Greedo catches on too late to the facts that (a) Solo knows he plans to kill him and keep the money and (b) Solo has drawn a pistol. Greedo panics, shoots, misses and Han makes him pay for his stupidity.

Jabba obviously doesn't give half a shit about Greedo getting shot. He goes to the hangar with his posse and decides to give Solo another chance. He wasn't looking for trouble from Solo. Maybe he just has an entourage.

I don't know what the time lapse is between ANH and TESB, but Solo is apparently still in a position to patch things up with Jabba, in spite of any bounties. The final straw is that Darth Vader added his own reward for tracking down Solo.

[Praxis]

He should have called up Durga the Hutt, and said, "Hey, Durga, how much do ya want for me to eliminate your numero uno rival? Yeah? A million credits? Alright!" *Han hits the fire button*

[Ender]

Especially when he believes that Han is already inside the Falcon? You know, the Millennium Falcon with that antipersonnel blaster,

Which we didn't see used against the Stormtroopers.

Did they change ESB on the new DVDs? Son of a bitch.

[neoolong]

From the script, it seems like the bounty is for live only. Greedo implies that he's supposed to bring Han to Jabba. Probably for punishment, "You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship." Han might have gotten out of it without getting killed.

Of course Greedo, wanted to kill Han, and disobeyed orders it would seem.