Politics = Salesmanship

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-22 04:36pm

The persistent popularity of George W. Bush leads to an interesting question: does it matter any more if a politician knows anything about policy? Or is a political leader's job now a matter of salesmanship, with actual policy and intelligence being an afterthought?

I keep hearing how important it is for regular people to relate to the President. This is somewhat perplexing if you think of the President as a General; such a person should be skillful and intelligent, preferably much more so than the average person, he should be capable of admitting error rather than stubbornly sticking to a plan no matter how it works out (see the "just one more wave" mentality of WW1), and it doesn't really matter how likable he is as long as he gets the job done. But if you think of the President as a salesman, then all of this "common touch" crap makes much more sense: a salesman should be warm and charismatic, he should relate to the customers and make them feel comfortable with him, and he should be really good at spin-doctoring product flaws into "features". He doesn't even have to know how the car works, as long as he can sell it. Sound like anyone you know?

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 04:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:The persistent popularity of George W. Bush leads to an interesting question: does it matter any more if a politician knows anything about policy? Or is a political leader's job now a matter of salesmanship, with actual policy and intelligence being an afterthought?

I keep hearing how important it is for regular people to relate to the President. This is somewhat perplexing if you think of the President as a General; such a person should be skillful and intelligent, preferably much more so than the average person, he should be capable of admitting error rather than stubbornly sticking to a plan no matter how it works out (see the "just one more wave" mentality of WW1), and it doesn't really matter how likable he is as long as he gets the job done. But if you think of the President as a salesman, then all of this "common touch" crap makes much more sense: a salesman should be warm and charismatic, he should relate to the customers and make them feel comfortable with him, and he should be really good at spin-doctoring product flaws into "features". He doesn't even have to know how the car works, as long as he can sell it. Sound like anyone you know?

Or you mean a Policy Wonk like Al Gore..??

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-22 04:38pm

theski wrote:Or you mean a Policy Wonk like Al Gore..??

Actually, I had no particular person in mind; I'm just pointing out that a used-car salesman doesn't need to know jack shit about cars as long as he's good at selling them, and it's starting to appear that the same is true of Presidents and policies.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 04:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:
theski wrote:Or you mean a Policy Wonk like Al Gore..??
Actually, I had no particular person in mind; I'm just pointing out that a used-car salesman doesn't need to know jack shit about cars as long as he's good at selling them, and it's starting to appear that the same is true of Presidents and policies.

I would agree on that..... Hell I cant remember the last President.. that fit the True discription of a President.. and I loved Reagan... Maybe JFK or FDR

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-22 04:47pm

You see, the disturbing thing about salesman-Presidents is that a salesman has very limited input on the product design. His job is not to design a good product; it's to sell whatever product they have on the shelf.

Carrying this analogy through to Presidents, it appears that a salesman-President's job is just to sell the pre-determined policy package, ie product to the consumer, so there's no real feedback mechanism. The product is set by people working behind the scenes, and you can complain to the President all you want but you won't really change much of anything because it's not his job to design or redesign the product; it's his job to convince you to be happy with the product you've already bought, and discourage you from switching to a competitor (whose product might be just as shitty, but the consumer can always hope).

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-22 04:47pm

You're absolutely right. It is salesmanship. People would LIKE the President to have good policy, but the thing is that most people just don't know enough about policy to make decisions based on policy. A true policy argument would be entirely alien to the public. What does Joe Everyman know about balancing budgets and effective foreign policy. You see it all the time. So if policy isn't what matters, what is? It's all image. Who cares WHAT Dubya can do? The two most common (and most ignorant) arguments I hear are "I feel comfortable with Dubya as President" and "He must know what he's doing... I mean, he is the President."

To those who say "he must know what he's doing," why is that the case? Because you voted for him. And why did you vote for him? His policy? No. You didn't vote for him because he knew what he was doing, you voted because he LOOKED LIKE he knew what he is doing. So your arguments come down to "he looks like he knows what he is doing" and "I feel comfortable with him as president." And you know what? That is an IMAGE. Bush works hard to cultivate an image that everyone can be comfortable with, one that is friendly yet serious, a man who knows what he is doing. It's a mask, but it's a carefully constructed mask, and that's all most people can see.

In fact, George is literally selling the image. It's a strange type of economy where the currency is votes, not dollars. But if you invest the time and money into creating the product of an image, than people will buy it with votes. It's sad, but in the end, its ultimately the truth. God bless America.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 04:51pm

Bugsby wrote[/quote]In fact, George is literally selling the image. It's a strange type of economy where the currency is votes, not dollars. But if you invest the time and money into creating the product of an image, than people will buy it with votes. It's sad, but in the end, its ultimately the truth. God bless America

This is the problem with Kerry in a nut shell... No real image to sell... too much time trying to be everything to everyone..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 04:55pm

theski wrote:I would agree on that..... Hell I cant remember the last President.. that fit the True discription of a President.. and I loved Reagan... Maybe JFK or FDR

Bill Clinton.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 05:49pm

Durandal wrote:
theski wrote:I would agree on that..... Hell I cant remember the last President.. that fit the True discription of a President.. and I loved Reagan... Maybe JFK or FDR
Bill Clinton.

Gonna disagree.... all flash... in fact a lot like a more liberal Reagan....

I hope you are not going to tell me he was a great leader.. Hell of a speaker .. Great salesman.... Charm...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 05:51pm

Clinton was well-known to be deeply involved in the details concerning all his policy decisions. He was a lawyer before becoming a politician after all. You may not have agreed with everything he did, but he did make damn sure to know the facts before arriving at a decision.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 05:57pm

Durandal wrote:Clinton was well-known to be deeply involved in the details concerning all his policy decisions. He was a lawyer before becoming a politician after all. You may not have agreed with everything he did, but he did make damn sure to know the facts before arriving at a decision.

Nothing to do with politics here..

Clinton was, is and always will be a policy wonk. But he is a policy wonk not in the sense that he loves academic argument and debate for the love of debate alone. He is a policy wonk in that he sees politics, and detailed policy programmes, as the route to a better life for people the right tends to forget.

and

do not come to the Bill Clinton story as a neutral, but as someone who likes him, rates him highly as a President and ranks him as the greatest political communicator I ever saw

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/ ... 15,00.html

I guess this makes us both right..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 06:14pm

Sounds good to me.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-22 06:17pm

In an alternate universe, Blair should definitely be a used car salesman somewhere or at the very least one of those annoying Tupperware door-to-door guys that won't take a hint.

Politics today is one big style over substance fallacy, though I have to question if it was anything but that in the past anyway.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 06:28pm

Durandal wrote:Sounds good to me.

Tooo bad you cant vote for him insted of Kerry

are you going to hold your nose and pull the handle for Him??

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-22 06:29pm

Whoever wins, I get to laugh at the American people for being stuck with him.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 06:31pm

Darth Wong wrote:Whoever wins, I get to laugh at the American people for being stuck with him.

I thought you were moving to Calgary.... Live with the common folk awile..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 06:31pm

theski wrote:
Durandal wrote:Sounds good to me.
Tooo bad you cant vote for him insted of Kerry

are you going to hold your nose and pull the handle for Him??

For Kerry? Damn straight. I despise Bush and everything he represents. If the alternative is a lukewarm liberal who's going to be a lame duck, since it looks like the Republicans are going to have a firm hold on Congress, so be it.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 06:32pm

Durandal wrote:
theski wrote:
Durandal wrote:Sounds good to me.
Tooo bad you cant vote for him insted of Kerry

are you going to hold your nose and pull the handle for Him??
For Kerry? Damn straight. I despise Bush and everything he represents. If the alternative is a lukewarm liberal who's going to be a lame duck, since it looks like the Republicans are going to have a firm hold on Congress, so be it.

Would you have voted for Dean insted of Kerry?? would he have made a better choice for you dems...?

PrinceofLowLight · Post by **PrinceofLowLight** » 2004-09-22 06:44pm

I don't think it's particularly important for a president to know that much about policy. The person at the very top should be charismatic and smart enough to listen to advisors. The fact is, to the uninformed (the majority) a good idea and a bad idea sound exactly the same. Happy people are easier to govern. Even the best policies can be screwed up by an uncooperative populace.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 06:45pm

Absolutely. I liked Dean. He had exactly what the Democrats needed to get themselves going again, and what he didn't have was an unshakable reputation for being a stone-cold liberal. If only he could've controlled that vain popping out of his forehead ... sigh.

For me, it was a toss-up between Dean and Edwards; Kerry was pretty low on my radar during the primaries.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 06:45pm

Durandal wrote:Absolutely. I liked Dean. He had exactly what the Democrats needed to get themselves going again, and what he didn't have was an unshakable reputation for being a stone-cold liberal. If only he could've controlled that vain popping out of his forehead ... sigh.

For me, it was a toss-up between Dean and Edwards; Kerry was pretty low on my radar during the primaries.

Speaking of Edwards.. should be one hell of a VP debate..

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-22 06:51pm

Well he's no Dick Cheney, All-Seeing Lord of the Underworld, but it'll be interesting to see what he does with the position if he gets it.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 06:54pm

Durandal wrote:Well he's no Dick Cheney, All-Seeing Lord of the Underworld, but it'll be interesting to see what he does with the position if he gets it.

Well at least you have 2008 to start to think about

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2004-09-22 08:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:Whoever wins, I get to laugh at the American people for being stuck with him.

--Why doesn't the rest of the world get it yet?!? You get stuck with our president as well! Multi-nations like the EU better get their act together quick before it is too late....

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-09-22 08:30pm

Nova Andromeda wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Whoever wins, I get to laugh at the American people for being stuck with him.
--Why doesn't the rest of the world get it yet?!? You get stuck with our president as well! Multi-nations like the EU better get their act together quick before it is too late....

and that means........???????? Like the EU can get through the 37 levels of paper work first...

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