Alderaan's shield from the ANH DVD

[Kurgan]

The saber in ANH looked blue to me in the original film, but perhaps that was crud on the film itself or poor memory perhaps.

It was blue in the original film.

Right. And I was struck how in the Special Edition of ANH (both in the theater and on video) it looked greenish in that scene where Luke takes the practice swings in Kenobi's hutt. I don't recall my impression of the scene where he uses it against the remote on the Falcon, but I know the first one struck me as odd. I always assumed it was supposed to be blue in both shots, because it's not the bright green that Luke's new saber is in ROTJ and for continuity's sake, it's clearly blue in ESB.

Anyway, the same lightsaber when used in ESB is blue throughout.

That'd be because it was the same saber.

Thank heavens we agree. ; )

So continuity wise it should be blue. Though one could argue that Lucas "always intended" it to be green and then when he made ESB decided to change it to blue without explaining it in-universe.

Ummmmmm... What?

Read it again, I'm just rambling because I like the sight of my own text. Or something...

But, Lucas has said that the reason they chose a green saber for Luke in ROTJ is because against the yellow sand of Tatooine a blue saber tends to look more green anyway, so they just changed the color.

Okay...

Truth. Not in-universe of course.

Luke only uses that saber in two instances, on Tatooine and on the Falcon.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzt. He also uses it on Hoth (and so did Han, when cutting open the taun-taun), Dagobah, and Cloud City.

So in the one case a green looking saber could be excusable, but in the other it wouldn't (and that's where the green shot appears).

I meant in the course of ANH. No kidding he uses it in ESB and so does Han. It's blue then. I am just saying, let's say before ESB gets made that Lucas originally made the saber blue/green on purpose. But when he saw how bad it looked, he changed the background for the new movie so it would look blue. Or, the more conventional theory (which I agree with), it was always meant to be blue, and the backgrounds in ANH just made it appear green.

The question is, the guys doing the 2004 DVD's, why did they make it green again in these scenes? Did they misunderstand Lucas's intentions?

Luke has a color-changing or green saber, which all of a sudden turns blue. To me it's a SFX gaffe (I even remember how the early AOTC trailers and at least one screen cap convinced myself and many others that there were purple and orange sabers being used by the Jedi Order, even though it turned out just to be a color problem with the background).

So the 2004 DVD team just goofed up, and we have to guess why. Not enough coffee is the next theory... ; )

Because someone screwed up.

Yup.

If his saber flashed green for one frame, no big deal (have to see the clip itself in full to know if it's noticable), but if it's green in that whole scene I don't know.

Point. Anyone who has the DVD: Is it green for the entire scene in question?

Logic would dictate the saber should be blue all throughout ANH just as it is in ESB...

Precisely.

[/quote]

Agreed. I was going to pick them up tonight, but for some reason I feel like waiting, thinking there's going to be some announcement about the DVD's. But I'm not psychic and most likely nothing will happen. This may be the one and only SW Trilogy DVD set ever (I imagine they'll repackage them for a 6 movie set or possibly sell them as individuals later, but no new content), and the next one we get will be the Special Edition: Special Edition: Special Editions, "Special Ed" Edition for Blu/Ray or HD-DVD in 2007. Heck, it's only $39. Lucas can buy himself another round of doughnuts or something. But, I waited seven years, what's another few days?

[nightmare]

Well its just plain impossible that what we see is anything but a shield. Not that there was any ambiguity before if you studied the scene sicentifically. But now its plain as daylight if you ask me. It will certainly put any claims of otherwise into the corner of pure silliness.

[Spice Runner]

Damn! thats really high quality. It's pretty obvious at first glance that there is some invisible barrier as the superlaser hits

[Darth Servo]

Wait! I know how RSA will respond:

SEE? I fucking told you guys there was a band of brightness, but no one believed me 'cause the Warsies are all retards who don't want to see anything that doesn't fit in with their belief system!

Damn, MoO beat me to it.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

So continuity wise it should be blue. Though one could argue that Lucas "always intended" it to be green and then when he made ESB decided to change it to blue without explaining it in-universe.

Ummmmmm... What?

Read it again, I'm just rambling because I like the sight of my own text. Or something...

That explains a lot, frankly...

[Kurgan]

Search your feelings Spanky... you will know it to be true!

[Spanky The Dolphin]

What I know to be true is that your overworded, parenthesis and quotation mark abusing ramblings of nonsense have no actual productive purpose other than to clutter up threads.

[Kurgan]

So in other words you can "stick it to me" even when I'm right? Okay.

It's this nonesense about stretching out a thread that's amusing. I mean isn't the best way to show up a fool not to give him an audience? Yet you can never resist! Since your comments about my personality add nothing to these threads I don't see you being so high and mighty here. Just a thought. ; )

[Tsyroc]

But, Lucas has said that the reason they chose a green saber for Luke in ROTJ is because against the yellow sand of Tatooine a blue saber tends to look more green anyway, so they just changed the color.

In the at least one of the teasers/trailers for RotJ Luke's sabre is blue. I guess it must have been before they decided to change the color.

[Mange]

I had expected a quick rebuttal by Dorkstar about the Alderaan shield and other things that are clarified in various ways on the DVD's. One thing I also thought was interesting was heard in the ROTJ commentary (by Dennis Muren IIRC), although I'm not sure how commentaries fits canon. It explicitly calls the AT-ST's patrol vehicles. So much for Dorkstar's "idea" that they were the "premiere small combat vehicle" of the Empire.

[Vympel]

No fuckwit would be taken in by that idiotic argument irrespective- Hoth is all that's required- his bullshit argument is predicated on vague semantics (surprise!) from the novelization, which describes vehciles which in *no way* correspond to the film vehicles except for the fact they have two legs.

[Mange]

Well, Dorkstar finally responded to the DVD's, and Mike was right:

There's still nothing to indicate the shield that one could've inferred from the original version of the superlaser hit

Oh, so you say. From now on I will just ignore that person's site. I'm starting to loose my hair by watching his site (from pulling all my hair).

[Rogue 9]

And as for where he said it: +http://st-v-sw.net/dvdtemp.html

That seems to be his preliminary page that he's using until he can rewrite the rest of the site.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Oh my god, how the fuck can that dipshit still claim that there isnt a shield there? Oh silly me with the "I dont't see no shield, none whatsoever. Anyone who is claiming otherwise is irrational." attitude.

Anyways, anyone with more than a quarter of brain can see clear as day that there is a shield, they could see it before the DVD's and that has been proven now. Its amazing how he still doesnt succeed in explaining how the athmosphere glows past the line-of-sight from the superlaser impact point. In short, the little idiots flagship argument has been thrown out of the window by the highest possible authority and being the psychopatical little twit he is, ofcourse he must deny it.

[Rogue 9]

Say, speaking of which, are there now any clearer shots of this pic? +http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Epis ... 7close.jpg I know it's off topic for the thread, but I don't want to create a new one asking for clearer pics for everything on his site that I want to debunk...

Edit: Also Han blasting out that chunk of Docking Bay 94. Dirt indeed...

[nightmare]

(Update: Though it boggles the mind, SD.Net denizens are still claiming, even on the basis of the DVD, that the arrow didn't penetrate the armor, but instead that it is sticking into the trooper's exposed neck/upper back. I must say, they never cease to amaze me . . . and not in a good way.)

Okay, the guy is officially insane. I zoomed in on picture 3 and 4, and there's no question that it hit above the armor. In pic 4, you can't see the "broken" neck, but the arrow continues on the inside, too high to be going through. It's merely an optical illusion. Just like before, I might add. Especially when you take ballistics into mind.

The shot to Leia's arm was the subject of a peculiar claim that it was a hit to the wall near her and not her arm at all. This was entirely senseless even with the images available at the time, but now that argument is completely destroyed by the DVD images.

Be a man and not a squid for once. Even the original video sequence left nothing to be interpreted, and its the opposite of what you're claming.

Also, you can more clearly see the little doodad on the upper left, which I previously didn't pay much attention to (presuming it to be a vidcap artifact, or part of the rig holding the planet model, or what-have-you). As Alderaan has no moon, I'm not sure what that is supposed to be. If I didn't know better, I'd almost be tempted to say it was a second Death Star firing a red beam at the planet. In any case, the object floats off toward the left, and gets lost in the primary blast. I pondered whether it could be considered the source of the secondary blast somehow, but the object does not travel in the proper direction.

Now he's seeing things again. This does not bode well.

There's still nothing to indicate the shield that one could've inferred from the original version of the superlaser hit:

It must be great to live in la-la land. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

[Vympel]

Not to mention that in shot 3 you can clearly see that the brown of the arrow continues through the white, without interruption as you'd expect from penetration. As I said in the other thread (where you shoulda posted ), he's deliberately using poor quality shots that look nothing like Laird's ones to muddy the issue to what he prefers.

[nightmare]

(Update: Though it boggles the mind, SD.Net denizens are still claiming, even on the basis of the DVD, that the arrow didn't penetrate the armor, but instead that it is sticking into the trooper's exposed neck/upper back. I must say, they never cease to amaze me . . . and not in a good way.)

Okay, the guy is officially insane. I zoomed in on picture 3 and 4, and there's no question that it hit above the armor. In pic 4, you can't see the "broken" neck, but the arrow continues on the inside, too high to be going through. It's merely an optical illusion. Just like before, I might add. Especially when you take ballistics into mind.

The shot to Leia's arm was the subject of a peculiar claim that it was a hit to the wall near her and not her arm at all. This was entirely senseless even with the images available at the time, but now that argument is completely destroyed by the DVD images.

Be a man and not a squid for once. Even the original video sequence left nothing to be interpreted, and its the opposite of what you're claming.

Also, you can more clearly see the little doodad on the upper left, which I previously didn't pay much attention to (presuming it to be a vidcap artifact, or part of the rig holding the planet model, or what-have-you). As Alderaan has no moon, I'm not sure what that is supposed to be. If I didn't know better, I'd almost be tempted to say it was a second Death Star firing a red beam at the planet. In any case, the object floats off toward the left, and gets lost in the primary blast. I pondered whether it could be considered the source of the secondary blast somehow, but the object does not travel in the proper direction.

Now he's seeing things again. This does not bode well.

There's still nothing to indicate the shield that one could've inferred from the original version of the superlaser hit:

It must be great to live in la-la land. Ignorance is bliss as they say.[/quote]

I've heard reference to the lighter-colored crescent on the right from the first impact frame being the source of the shield claim, but that makes no more sense with the DVD version than it did with the SE version. What would a shield be doing over there, far to the right of the impact site? Why is there no trace of it on the left? Why does it correspond to the nearby cloud patterns? Why would a shield show up only as a distant crescent just to the right of the terminator, but not over the proper location of the surface? And so on.

Hello? Ever looked at a soap bubble, you moron? Or say, the visible bubble shields of the Droidekas in TMP? All that's been covered already. You're just full of it as usual.

For now, I'm holding off on a firm "IT IS THIS" position, pending further analysis. After all, I'd hate to behave like my opposition and leap to an irrational conclusion.

Irrational is your middle name. No wait, I take that back. you are *very* consistant with holding your position, regardless of blatantly obvious evidence to the opposite. Of course, we knew that already. But it was long since it ceased to be funny. You're just the same as when you used to be here, claim one position, pretend to listen to the arguments against, then go "hmm, well, but blah blah, so I was even more right than I thought in the first place." At this point, I wouldn't belive you if you said the moon is round without seperate evidence and analysis.

[DPDarkPrimus]

So, when is he replacing his Alderaan pictures with still from the DVDs, if he's so freaking confident?

[Techno_Union]

Can't say I'm surprised that he's still thick headed. Funny though, I sent him an email yesterday seeing when he was going to update his site...

[Master of Ossus]

So, when is he replacing his Alderaan pictures with still from the DVDs, if he's so freaking confident?

He's done it, already.

In his words,

There's still nothing to indicate the shield that one could've inferred from the original version of the superlaser hit

[Kurgan]

Say, speaking of which, are there now any clearer shots of this pic? +http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Epis ... 7close.jpg I know it's off topic for the thread, but I don't want to create a new one asking for clearer pics for everything on his site that I want to debunk...

Edit: Also Han blasting out that chunk of Docking Bay 94. Dirt indeed...

It's definately stone/mortar, though my position is that at least two of those explosions are the Falcon's guns, but that's my argument theory, not his. ; ) If it's not, the editing sure makes it LOOK like that's what's happening, at least to me. I bought into the "it was all Han's blaster" theory until I had a chance to look at the SE closely, then I started to really doubt it when I had the DVD to go through.

[Hardy]

Okay, I just took some measurements of that boundry that the superlaser passed through.

It measures about eight pixels from the surface of the planet.

Alderaan measures 113 pixels.

So that boundry extends 900 kilometers into space. I'm quite positive that the the atmosphere of a terrestrial planet doesn't extend more than 200 kilometers. There is no way in hell that could be an atmosphere. That's definitely a shield which extends 900 kilometers into space.

And as for where he said it: +http://st-v-sw.net/dvdtemp.html

Okay...I am seriously wondering if Darkstar needs his eyes checked. Now more than ever.

EDIT: I also went over the pictures on Darkstar's website. They're a bit closer than the ones provided here.
Alderaan measures 124 pixels. The atmosphere (on the left) would be 3 pixels which would give us an atmostphere of no more than 300 kilometers from the surface. I also went to highlight the photos and factored in the sunlight terminator. The boundry measured ~500 kilometers from the apparent surface. This is considerably higher than the last known point of the atmosphere. The planetary shield theory gains weight...

[DPDarkPrimus]

In his words,

There's still nothing to indicate the shield that one could've inferred from the original version of the superlaser hit

This boy needs help.

[Kurgan]

I was looking at the pics on Darkstar's site today and it just struck me...

THIS is why he thinks the planetary shield is gone in the SE and 2004 Editions!

It's because of that shot from the original. If you look at it, you see this weird green "blob" like a hand that's reaching across the surface of the planet, as if it's the energy of the DS beam "wrapping around" the shield. Why would it do that if the planet were unprotected?

So in the new editions, he doesn't see that, and he proclaims that any evidence of a shield is removed.

Yet, after staring closely at the shots from the new editions, I CAN make out the "fingers" of the blob. It's just a little harder to do because of the increased brightness of the "impact" of the beam.

But with some filtering and such (which I am too lazy to do) you can make it out and prove once and for all that nothing has changed. If the Original Version was enough to say there was a planetary Shield (as Darkstar concedes on his page and has for the longest time) then there is enough evidence to say it is now. Even the glowing soap bubble edge was "always there" it's just easier to see now, but the other detail of the blob fingers is harder to see now.

If anyone wants to do that, I think that would be the final (or yet another) nail in the coffin of his argument.