Han shoots twice! (and other random DVD stuff)

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-22 11:04pm

Okay, maybe this is old, but now that I can go frame by frame on my SW DVD copy of ANH (sadly, I'll be returning it soon because the ones Wal-Mart sold me have heat-damage burn marks around the edges of all four discs, wtf), I see that Greedo and Han shoot at each other at the same time (as others have noted), but not only that, Han fires two bolts into Greedo.

Greedo's shot hits inches from Han's head (he flinches just a bit to avoid it burning the side of his face), and then richochetes of the wall (rather than hitting and not leaving a mark like it did in the SE). They essentially fire at the same time. It looks a little goofy, but much better than the old SE.

So anyway, did Han always pump two into poor Greedo? Or was this just Lucas's way of trying to compromise a little bit more respect back into the scene? ; )

The discs seem to stutter a bit, but I'll chalk that up to visible "battle damage" on these copies. The picture quality looks GREAT (so far) but it seems very dark on my pc monitor.

Some other random observations...

Jabba looks better than in the shots. In motion you can see the "wetness" of his eyes and the moisture in his nostrils, giving him less of the "plastic" look that the previous CG character had. There still a little of the "fluffly immaterial" look that the old one had, but it's a lot less. He does "look" like a rubber puppet, but a different one than was used in ROTJ. The dead giveaway though is the way his lips are animated (something the puppet couldn't do).

The "Sound problem" people mentioned with regards to Tarkin's speech about "then name the system!" to Leia definately has a noticable change in track. Additionally in that scene all of Leia's lines have an increased treble "hiss" to them, as if somebody was playing them off a tape recorder. This is noticable on both the 5.1 and 2.0 sound tracks, on my crappy Soundblaster Live! 2 speaker+woofer cambridge soundworks setup.

PS: This Wal-Mart store in Davenport seems to have had a lot of problems with damaged DVD's. No wonder their prices are so low...

Well at least they have a decent refund policy, and Best Buy around the corner accepts competitor price matching.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-22 11:30pm

Hell, another few observations just as I watch ANH:

The Stormtrooper blasters no longer have that "shotgun" sound effect to them that they had in the SE. Instead they have the "squeaky" sound they always had (IIRC).

Luke's saber is a nice green beam in the Falcon scene. Green the ENTIRE TIME. No flashes of blue, always green.

In the scene where he takes a "few practice swings" in Obi-Wan's hut earlier it is the familiar "fluffy" looking blue blade (with no trace of the greenish tint it had in the SE).

There MIGHT be an explanation in here. Perhaps when Luke first turns it on he accidentally is using the "full setting" but when he's training with the remote he's using a "practice setting" that makes the beam look different.

Or else somebody just screwed up big time...!

The sabers used by Obi-Wan and Vader look fine, although in their duel there are some weird "chunky" green/yellow flashes that appear whenever their sabers clash, instead of just a generic white flash. Go frame by frame and you'll see what I mean. While Obi-Wan's "unpainted saber" gaff still happens, there's a bit more glow around it, but for a frame or two you can still see the metal rod underneath (bummer).. ; p

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-09-22 11:51pm

Kurgan wrote: There MIGHT be an explanation in here. Perhaps when Luke first turns it on he accidentally is using the "full setting" but when he's training with the remote he's using a "practice setting" that makes the beam look different.

Or else somebody just screwed up big time...!

Check out the extras menus... one of them is that scene... his lightsaber is blue.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-22 11:51pm

God, Kurgan...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-23 12:06am

It's against my programming to impersonate a deity...

And here's why, I made a mistake:

At 1:02:11 (chapter 27) Lukes saber appears a bit blue while he blocks the shots from the remote (while he has the helmet over his eyes). In the rest of the scene its green everytime you see the blade.

quick 'n' crappy collage, but you get the idea:

Not sure what you mean by the extras menu, but in the animated chapters it looks green in the same scenes as it does in the movie as far as I can tell.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-09-23 03:56am

In the SE Greedo fired, Han's head moved approximately 30 cm from one frame to another (I estimated it was a 4G movement) and Han fired twice, while Greedo did basicly nothing. It was basicly the worst special effect (in relation to the technology) I have ever seen.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-23 04:34am

Ah, so he always fired twice (in the SE at least). Oh well. ; )

DPDarkPrimus, ok you're looking at the main menu on disc 4, and yes, his saber is a nice bright blue there. Ouch, too bad it didn't look that good in the movie.

I also checked out that scene in ROTJ where the sabers clash in front of Palpatine. Yuck! Here and I'd hoped that was just a work in progress shot...

On the other hand, you can still see Oola's nipples...

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-09-23 11:12am

but for a frame or two you can still see the metal rod underneath (bummer).. ; p

I´m guessing these DVDs are not the final work (even heard a rumor that the DVD crew were still working on stuff when they had to ship them, and wished they had more time.) Due to popular demand these DVDs were sent to the public unfinished. Thanks for all your whining leading to this, you fucking retards.

2001: TPM DVD comes out because people whined.

2002: AOTC DVD comes out before people can whine.

2004: OT DVDs come out because people whined like crazy. They continue whining even after getting them, due to errors made when the DVD crew hurried making them, due to people whining.

It´s a vicious circle.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-23 11:17am

I don't buy that for a second- popular demand is no fucking excuse for putting out something that's incomplete. Either they do the job right or not fucking at all. I don't remember any huge outcry that the DVDs *must* come out by Sep 21, just that they fucking come out.

Personally, I don't give a shit, but I won't see it blamed on the public, that's just copout bullshit.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-23 11:22am

Kurgan wrote:Luke's saber is a nice green beam in the Falcon scene. Green the ENTIRE TIME. No flashes of blue, always green.

That's not true. Luke's saber is green in the Falcon the first time he has the blade on against the remote. He turns off the blade. When he turns it on again, its blue for the rest of the scene.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-09-23 11:31am

Vympel wrote:I don't buy that for a second- popular demand is no fucking excuse for putting out something that's incomplete. Either they do the job right or not fucking at all. I don't remember any huge outcry that the DVDs *must* come out by Sep 21, just that they fucking come out.

Personally, I don't give a shit, but I won't see it blamed on the public, that's just copout bullshit.

I agree completely, except the part about "no public outcry", believe me, they´re just as guilty of this debacle as Lucasfilm. People have whined and bitched for AGES about getting them on DVD, and Lucas have, up until recently, said 'no, not until after Ep. III.'

Lo and behold, he caved, some got what they wanted, others did not get what they wanted (the O-OT-purists, the nitpickers and the people making the DVDs), and the only one who´s a winner in all of this is yet again, George Lucas.

Me? I´m just here for the show, be it on the big-screen or on the internet.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-23 11:36am

VT-16 wrote:I agree completely, except the part about "no public outcry", believe me, they´re just as guilty of this debacle as Lucasfilm. People have whined and bitched for AGES about getting them on DVD, and Lucas have, up until recently, said 'no, not until after Ep. III.'

Lo and behold, he caved, some whiners got what they wanted, other whiners did not get what they wanted (the O-OT-purists, the nitpickers and the people making the DVDs), and the only one who´s a winner in all of this is yet again, George Lucas.

Ok, you expect me to believe that he caved, a year short of Ep. III coming out after keeping these movies off DVD for almost 10 years? No. This is probably him trying to drum up business for Ep. III. GL is nothing if not the consumate business man and understands how to manipulate his potential audience.

There's no other explanation. The whining you refer to has never increased in tone since it started when DVDs were first released. There is no reason why he would cave now so close to his goal. Do I expect some uber set released in the next 2-3 years. Sure I do. Will I spend yet more money on it? Perhaps. Though the presence of TPM on any of those sets tends to taint them all.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-09-23 12:03pm

Ok, that makes sense, his "artistic integrity" only goes so far.

That reminds me, I have to get the THX 1138 DVD, just to hear him say how he uses SW-films to finance his future "avantgarde" projects, the ones closest to his filmmaking heart. Ouch, I hope some SW-geeks passed out from hearing that. Pathetic geeks crying make me smile.

And there WILL be an Anniversary Edition or whatever, coming in 2007. There´s no doubt in my mind. I was actually a bit disappointed not to see any more scenes/changes in these DVDs. The changes were mostly small and tame. I wanted the scenes with Palpatine and Organa in Ep. IV, dammit! Hopefully the rumors of such scenes weren´t totally false. But Kashyyyk will be in the Victory montage in the end, bank on it. All they need to do is recycle models from the "upcoming venture", and they´re set.

Though the presence of TPM on any of those sets tends to taint them all.

Ehh, it´s not too bad. I just see it as a nice-looking filler ´till you get to the meat of the story, in II and III.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2004-09-23 01:59pm

Greedo's shot hits inches from Han's head (he flinches just a bit to avoid it burning the side of his face), and then richochetes of the wall (rather than hitting and not leaving a mark like it did in the SE). They essentially fire at the same time. It looks a little goofy, but much better than the old SE.

I liked the ricochet, to explain the lack of a crater beside Han's head.

if you frame-by-frame, there's some odd timing to that scene though, but at least its tightened up, and doesn't look quite as bad. =)

one that I don't see mentioned yet, apparently the inside of the droids' escape pod is Chroma-key blue! This shows up both in the scene they're leaving the pod, AND in the stormtrooper search scene. Its really hard to miss, and in both scenes, so it must be intentional? If not, its a pretty big goof.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-09-23 02:05pm

I liked the bit in ESB where the Stardestroyer loses it's bridge to an asteroid and in the next scene we see Vader conversing with three holographic officers. One of them throws his arm up to sheild himself and then disapears.

I really hadn't noticed that before until Lucas pointed it out on the commentary, but then I probably haven't seen ESB for around a decade or so.

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2004-09-23 03:38pm

At the E-Web scene I just HAD to do a frame-by-frame..
The E-Web fires off 2 shots while the power cell on the ground flashes and seems to be on fire, before everyone is being taken out by the ground buzzer, .
Never noticed that before, I thought it never had time to fire.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-23 05:02pm

Stravo wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Luke's saber is a nice green beam in the Falcon scene. Green the ENTIRE TIME. No flashes of blue, always green.
That's not true. Luke's saber is green in the Falcon the first time he has the blade on against the remote. He turns off the blade. When he turns it on again, its blue for the rest of the scene.

Okay, I mispoke the first time and I'm sorry. He turns on the saber in the Falcon, it's green. He turns it on again, it's green. He turns it on again (iirc) and it's blue), then it's green again. Except for that brief "segment" (from turning it on, to turning it off again) where he has the helmet over his face and he actually blocks the shots (AND of course the much earlier scene where he takes the practice swings in Obi-Wan's hut), it's green in every scene of ANH.

I could go back through and note the exact timeframe that it turns blue for, but I know that it's very brief. There is a moment right after where I think it's blue for a frame or two, but then it's green again and stays green. Again, sorry for the mistake before. I got excited and posted before I realized my goof. But it's green more often than it is blue, which is odd.

Tsyroc wrote:I liked the bit in ESB where the Stardestroyer loses it's bridge to an asteroid and in the next scene we see Vader conversing with three holographic officers. One of them throws his arm up to sheild himself and then disapears.

I really hadn't noticed that before until Lucas pointed it out on the commentary, but then I probably haven't seen ESB for around a decade or so.

I also did frame-by-frame to see if the "Bridge" was still intact after the asteroid "explosion" but it's too hard to tell, with all that smoke. At first I thought I saw "stars" through the smoke and was like, "whoa" but then I realized that those were just "debris."

Don't feel bad about missing stuff, I didn't realize Han shot Greedo twice, and I NEVER noticed that Luke's saber makes an "off" sound in ESB after he exists the wampa cave. ; )

As far as fixing some goofs and leaving in others, I'm not surprised. All of those fixes take time and money, and Lucas has to decide what to spend time on (or what he wants others to spend time on). Clearly they were barely allowed enough time/resources to complete the changes they did, much less all kinds of stuff they missed in the SE. This is far from an "Ultimate Edition" with all the "Unintentional" SFX gaffes fixed (I'd have to look but supposedly he added a sound effect to the ANH head-banging trooper, because he likes the gaffe and wants to keep it).

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2004-09-23 08:22pm

Explanation for inconsistant saber color in ANH:

After being in storage for 20 years, anakin's Graflex was a bit crudded up. run it for a while and that shit gets burned out.

well, its something.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-09-23 08:28pm

Stravo wrote: Do I expect some uber set released in the next 2-3 years.

I'm sure I read somewhere (maybe here) that Fox have already said there's going to be a release on the next gen technology that will be "the big one" and will have all the stuff like deleted scenes.

I do get the impression that this release is a filler, an excellent one, but a filler.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-09-23 08:59pm

VT-16 wrote:I´m guessing these DVDs are not the final work (even heard a rumor that the DVD crew were still working on stuff when they had to ship them, and wished they had more time.) Due to popular demand these DVDs were sent to the public unfinished. Thanks for all your whining leading to this, you fucking retards.

2001: TPM DVD comes out because people whined.

2002: AOTC DVD comes out before people can whine.

2004: OT DVDs come out because people whined like crazy. They continue whining even after getting them, due to errors made when the DVD crew hurried making them, due to people whining.

It´s a vicious circle.

Quit your whining. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Wait till the six movie set comes out if you want another version.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-23 09:04pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
Stravo wrote: Do I expect some uber set released in the next 2-3 years.
I'm sure I read somewhere (maybe here) that Fox have already said there's going to be a release on the next gen technology that will be "the big one" and will have all the stuff like deleted scenes.

I do get the impression that this release is a filler, an excellent one, but a filler.

Yeah, this release is a step. Both Lucasfilm insiders and Van Ling (the DVD set's producer) have said that things like the deleted scenes and other items have been deliberately held off until the eventual HD release, most likely in 2007.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-09-23 09:08pm

Lord Sander wrote:At the E-Web scene I just HAD to do a frame-by-frame..
The E-Web fires off 2 shots while the power cell on the ground flashes and seems to be on fire, before everyone is being taken out by the ground buzzer, .
Never noticed that before, I thought it never had time to fire.

It didn't fire at all in the original version; its shots got added into the SE

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-23 09:22pm

This HD format, will it require a new type of player? If so FUCK. Dvd's haven't even been out for 10 years,

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-23 09:25pm

Yeah, it will, though whichever format is chosen or if both compete, Blu-Ray (yay!) or HD-DVD (boo!), the players will be backwards compatable with current DVDs and won't be too expensive.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-23 09:34pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, it will, though whichever format is chosen or if both compete, Blu-Ray (yay!) or HD-DVD (boo!), the players will be backwards compatable with current DVDs and won't be too expensive.

Backward compatability thanks for those magic words Spanky. I was eyeing my thousands of dollars of DVD's in horror.