Boy with Asperger Syndrome Banned from Public Playground

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-22 11:22pm

Dennis Toy wrote:right and numbers of people who observe that named diseases come up everyyear that no one has heard of before.

And it invalidates the disease...how?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-22 11:24pm

prove to me it exist,... to me like ADD it is nothing but Bullshit.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-22 11:27pm

Dennis Toy wrote:prove to me it exist,... to me like ADD it is nothing but Bullshit.

Go meet someone with Asperger's. Then you'll know it exists.

Here's a Yahoo article on it.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-22 11:30pm

Here's a better link

Says here it was first diagnosed in 1944.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-22 11:54pm

Asperger's syndrome
Provided by A.D.A.M., Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview | Treatment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Definition
Asperger's syndrome is a condition where young children experience impaired social interactions and develop limited repetitive patterns of behavior. Motor milestones may be delayed and clumsiness is often observed.

Can describe anyone who may simply be accident prone or may not like being around a lot of people. This doesnt prove a disease...

Alternative Names
Pervasive developmental disorder

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Hans Asperger labeled this disorder "Autistic Psychopathy" in 1944, and the cause is still unknown. There is a possible relation to autistic disorder (autism). Some researchers believe that Asperger's sydrome is simply a mild form of autism.

The child with Asperger's shows below-average nonverbal communication gestures, fails to develop peer relationships, has an inability to express pleasure in other people's happiness.

Why should he express feelings for other peoples happiness. It doesnt affect him. Maybe he isnt a good speaker. People sometimes aren't good speakers like people who arent artists or musicians.

and lacks the ability to reciprocate emotionally in normal social interactions. The condition appears to be more common in boys.

There are likely genetic factors, but some theories suggest a prenatal infection may be to blame.

While people with Asperger's syndrome are frequently socially inept, many have above average intelligence and they may excel in fields like computer programming and science.

SEE..anyone who is above intel and has an interest in subjects but doesnt like being around people can be labled. This can describe anyone who is actually famous ( and in some articles they claim Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg and Albert Einstein had this disease)

Symptoms

Abnormal nonverbal communication, such as problems with eye contact,
facial expressions, body postures, or gestures.
Failure to develop peer relationships.

same as above...

Scapegoating by other children as "weird" or "strange".

See the discrimination that is harbored

Lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people).

Why should he as i say, i thought humanity embraced differences..

Markedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.

read above..... Maybe he is bored or something.

Inability to return social or emotional feelings.
Inflexible about changes in specific routines or rituals.

this doesnt prove a disease, just a state of mind..

Repetitive finger flapping, twisting, or whole body movements.

Preoccupation with restricted areas of interest (unusually narrow or unusually intense). Some examples are obsession with train schedules, phone books, stamp collecting, or other collections of objects.
Preoccupation with parts of whole objects.

This could descibe anyone with a hobby that they are interested in, anime fans, train buffs, book collectors.

Repetitive behaviors, including repetitive self-injurious behavior.
There is no general delay in language.
There is no delay in cognitive development, or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills or in curiosity about the environment.

See this could describe any person who doesn't confirm and doesnt describe a disease...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-23 12:13am

OK Dennis Toy, why don't you explain the criteria for classifying something as a psychological condition? Because it looks to me like you're just taking a list of symptoms which mysteriously occur together in certain people and treating them as pure coincidences because none of them in isolation is necessarily proof of a condition.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-23 12:49am

Author Message
Darth Wong Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Dennis Toy, why don't you explain the criteria for classifying something as a psychological condition? Because it looks to me like you're just taking a list of symptoms which mysteriously occur together in certain people and treating them as pure coincidences because none of them in isolation is necessarily proof of a condition.

i thought you were going in for surgery....

however i am not a psychologist nor do i have any psychology experience but this disease stinks of being a label just like ADD.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-23 12:58am

Dennis Toy wrote:however i am not a psychologist nor do i have any psychology experience but this disease stinks of being a label just like ADD.

So you openly challenge the standards put forth by the medical community, yet cannot come up with anything better?

I reiterate, have you ever met anyone with Asperger's?

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-23 01:03am

i have met anyone who acts like this.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-23 01:09am

Dennis Toy wrote:i have met anyone who acts like this.

Ok, if you go and meet someone with Asperger's you will be able to see it's not just a bullshit label.

There are legitimate problems in relating to them, and trying to maintain any meaningful level of conversation takes a lot of work.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-23 07:30am

Dennis Toy wrote:right and numbers of people who observe that named diseases come up everyyear that no one has heard of before.

Fascinating. I take it your a leading neuropathologist then? Why, sir, tell me the results of your studies that bring you to the conclusion that autism in general is mere "bullshit"?

I'm sure all those people with ADD, Asperger's and numerous other chronic neurological disorders are just bluffing to satisfy the medical scientists around the globe who believe a novel new disease should be named annually, as you suggest.

The brother of a girl I went out with at my former college had ADD and I assure you, he wasn't like that because he wanted to be different or prove a psychiatrist right. He had medications and a distinct personality. Sometimes you could barely talk to him as he'd simply not listen and likely forget you were there, though it was rare he was ever that bad.

Despite the lack of any concrete cause for these conditions, I wouldn't call them bullshit. The fact that there is a specific set of disorders that occur in all of these kids and carry on into adulthood shows that sometimes is amiss and likely a genetic or congenital brain development problem. That, my friend, is a disease.

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2004-09-23 02:19pm

A good friend of mine's little boy has it (might be mild autism,I don't really know the difference between the two). Great kid, but you can sense that there's something up with him. I was talking to my friend when the boy started telling a story. Both of us didn't pay much attention to him and continued our conversation. I've been around a few little kids in my time and I know if they think you aren't paying attention, then they'll damn well try to get it by any and all means. Not this little guy, he just kept telling the story.

He's a bright little guy and I think he'll do fine. I couldn't imagine any parents being better for him then the ones he has.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2004-09-23 02:37pm

Thankfully, I only have a mild case of Asperger's syndrome. I like my routines, my face has never been expressive, and I'm very shy. I've been preoccupied with collecting certain things, although it usually doesn't last too long. I am also smarter than many of my peers, and am able to complete intellectual tasks (reading and comprehension, solving math problems) with unusuaMarkedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.

As for Dennis...

read above..... Maybe he is bored or something.

What, all the time?

this doesnt prove a disease, just a state of mind...

These aren't "moods," you littile twit, this is how they are in general.

This could descibe anyone with a hobby that they are interested in, anime fans, train buffs, book collectors.

I don't think you understand. This is beyond an "interest;" it is an intense obsession, and it lasts for a limited amount of time, after which the subject moves on to another obsession.

I don't think you really understood what any of these symptoms really meant, and I think perhaps you have the mentall illness known as "stupidity."

You also disgust me on a personal level, you little bastard.[/quote]

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2004-09-23 03:01pm

Okay, because I suffered both from ADD, and from Asperger's as a child (and still suffer slightly now, but not half as bad as I used to be), I think I can comment on this...

Dennis Toy wrote:Can describe anyone who may simply be accident prone or may not like being around a lot of people. This doesnt prove a disease...

Proof that you've never actually met someone who's had the syndrome. If you've ever read medical dictionaries, and compared them to what is actually seen, you notice that the definitions in dictionaries tend to be understatements. Since I speak from personal experience, I'll elaborate on each part of the definition, and how it affected me...

Asperger's syndrome is a condition where young children experience impaired social interactions

This does *not* mean 'may not like being around a lot of people'. This means, "Tries as damned hard as he/she can to reduce any and all social contact to zero." As in, the simple act of talking to someone is an almost insurmountable chore.

and develop limited repetitive patterns of behavior.

This does not mean the child acts similarly to someone with obsessive-compulsive disorder. When I was suffering from it, my main source of entertainment would be rolling a matchbox car back and forth, watching the wheels turn. I would do this for *hours on end*. That is not a 'state of mind', that is a mental disorder.

Motor milestones may be delayed and clumsiness is often observed.

I love how you statement the obvious here, while avoiding the point. Of *course* they're going to be accident-prone, that's pretty much a synonym for 'clumsiness'. The problem, which you failed to even address, is *where* it's coming from. In my own case, when I was younger, I walked on my toes. I simply had an extremely hard time walking like a 'normal' person, this wasn't because I was clumsy, it was because I had a mental block that prevented me, or at least made it several times more difficult, to learn how to walk normally. Even to this day, I walk in a rather 'unique' way, that is noticeable by friends and complete strangers alike. This has gone on for twenty + years, this is *not* because I'm 'clumsy', it's a fucking mental condition.

Why should he express feelings for other peoples happiness. It doesnt affect him.

Way to go, genius, you just refuted yourself! *If* it doesn't effect him, that means he/she has a severe lack of basic empathy, something which anyone 'normal' would have (want proof? Watch kids, one happy kid generally = more happy kids over time, likewise with sad kids). On the other hand, if it does affect him, and he's incapable of expressing it, it shows there is some sort of mental block (read: disorder) that prevents him from doing so.

People sometimes aren't good speakers like people who arent artists or musicians.

False analogy. Even if someone sucks at public speaking, they can still talk, still hold a conversation, even if at a slightly impaired level, with others. Asperger's sufferers (myself included) cannot.

SEE..anyone who is above intel and has an interest in subjects but doesnt like being around people can be labled.

Okay, newflash, these are *kids*. The success, increased intelligence, etc. are only observed *during* maturation, or *after* maturation.

read above..... Maybe he is bored or something.

Yeah, sure, bored for several years on end. Bored people, in general, seek out social interaction to alleviate the boredom. A person who spends several hours a day moving a toy car back and forth, watching the wheels spin, is not bored, he's got something wrong with him.

this doesnt prove a disease, just a state of mind..

A state of mind is temporary, that's why it's called a 'state'. I, and others who suffer from this, are like this *all the fucking time*. Besides that, you'd almost be right here, this alone doesn't prove a disease. It's this, combined with everything else that occurs under the syndrome, that proves it's a disease. What you're doing here is the equivalent of looking at a hard drive, saying "That doesn't prove there's a computer here," dropping the hard drive and forgetting about it, then looking at a memory card, saying, "That doesn't prove there's a computer here," dropping it, forgetting it, and moving on, ad infinitum, ad nausium.

This could descibe anyone with a hobby that they are interested in, anime fans, train buffs, book collectors.

Hmm, there appears to be a memory card, hard drive, motherboard, cd rom, monitor, several cables of various sizes and functions, a keyboard, a fan, a mouse, and a computer housing laid out before me. Nope, that doesn't prove there's a computer there, because I'm only capable at looking at each piece individually, and not realizing that it's all of them put together that make a computer.

-Damien

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-23 10:12pm

ok ok i am wrong, what i was saying was i personally belive that Asperger is bullshit. You don't have to..

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-23 10:39pm

Dennis Toy wrote:ok ok i am wrong, what i was saying was i personally belive that Asperger is bullshit. You don't have to..

This isn't a matter of opinion, nitwit. If you're going to state something as fact, you'd damn well better be able to back it up.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-09-24 12:08am

lets forget the damn thing ok.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2004-09-24 07:00am

There's nothing in Asperger's that will inevitably make a person a bully. In fact, the few folks I've known with the disorder are more likely to be victims of bullies because they can't read the warning cues some of us more socially savvy types pick up at a distance.

If the boy in question was threatening and/or physically bullying others then yes, he should be removed from the situation regardless of whatever other problems he may have.

I guess what it comes down to is that you can be an asshole AND have Asperger's at the same time.

On a related note - a girl at my high school became quadraplegic one summer and came back to school in a big motorized wheelchair. Later that semester she was suspended for two weeks. Everyone in the media was going "ooo, poor baby! Can't move! How can poor snookums be accused of wrong-doing? She's paralyzed from the neck down OH, OH, DISCRIMINATION!!!"

The bitch was ramming and running over people with her wheelchair. Have you ever been whacked from behind by a 400 lb motorized wheelchair? It fucking hurts! She broke someone's ankle by running over them. Yes, the poor dear went from being a star athlete to unable to feed herself -- but after two weeks at home, then another two weeks being forced to leave the "cadillac" chair at home and being pushed through the halls in a non-motorized wheelchair she finally got it through her thick, angry skull that no, it is not acceptable to hurt other people no matter how pissed off you are at the world.

Of course she was pissed off - you would be too if you had been shot in the neck by your own brother and doomed to a life of diapers and having other people feed you. Yes, it was an accident. She was still pissed off. That's actually a normal reaction to this sort of thing. Sure, we all felt bad for her - that doesn't mean we should have to put up with physical abuse. From anyone.