What if Luke wins in ESB?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-23 11:58pm

We all know the scene. Luke ducks under one of Vader's aggressive swings and manages to land a blow on Vader's shoulder. Well what if Luke's aim was a little better and the blow ends up killing Vder, decaptating him or what have you.

Vader is dead. There is no revelation, The Emperor just lost his Sith lord and Luke won't have his ace in the hole when its time to confront the Emperor , if he ever gets to at this point. What sort of developments would happen to the story over all?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-09-24 12:01am

Vader doesn't go to Endor, Luke and co. get to the surface with out Vader coming down after them. With out Luke sensing Vader, maybe he'll stick around with the team, and Han and Leia will have a lightsaber wielding warrior with the ground battle.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-09-24 12:05am

Luke bettter hope he can get off of cloud city without getting smoked by the Imperial forces that are there. Vader isn't around to tell them he wants Skywalker captured anymore. Hopefully they know that the Emperor wants him as well.

After that it could make a very intersting story.

1). Luke doesn't find out for a long time that Vader was his father. Likely the only time I can see him finding out is if the Emperor purposely tells him.

2). The Emperor is going to be pretty obsessed with either killing Luke or making him his next apprentice.

3). Hopefully Luke will remember the beating he was taking from Vader and realize that he got lucky. We wouldn't want him getting all prideful since we know how well that works for Jedi.

4). If he defeated Vader I'm not certain Luke would have been as skilled as he was when he went into Jabba's palace. I think losing his hand, his light saber, and dealing with the revelation about his father really helped him progress. Whether it was because of focus or new dedication, I don't know.

5). I'd be pretty interested in seeing how Vader's death shakes up thing in the Empire hierarchy. Does the Emperor have another number 2 in waiting or would he just utilize the military until he either got Luke or developed another apprentice.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-09-24 12:49am

Well, Palpatine begins cultivating a replacement. Probably set Luke up against Lady Lumiya. She was his past love and betrayed him, and she was Vader's bastard Sith apprentice, and she does hate Luke.

Alternatively he could just go straight to the Dark Empire route, and have Luke captured somewhere, brought before him, and engage in headgames with him until he is influenced to act under the Dark Side believing himself to be co-opting Palpatine until its too late for him to realize he's fallen.

Or he could just say "fuck these Skywalkers" and replace Vader with Lady Lumiya or Master Jerec.

But given the amount of silly grief he goes over with the Skywalkers, I think he'd still try to snag Luke.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-09-24 12:52am

This makes things very interesting actually. If Luke got lucky and slashed Vaders head off instead of knocking his shoulder plate, many things could happen. Im pretty sure Luke would be capable of sneaking off the station. But like Tsyroc said its possible that Luke may become too sure of himself and end up being more easily drawn in by the Dark Side.

Its also pretty much a given that the Emperor would still be after Luke probably even more so then he was before. As for a quick replacement to Vader, how about Mara Jade? She was one of the Emperors hands as it was and its possible he may take her under his wing as the next sith trainee untill Luke can be brought over. It would also be easy for Palpatine to use her to "seduce" Luke even further to joining the Dark side.

Other things to wonder about are would Obi Wan appear to Luke again and revealing the truth? Would Luke even bother returning to Yoda? So many variables.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-24 12:55am

Just an aside, this was my original concept for Luke in Starcrossed but decided that accepting the offer imparted far more drama. I could always go back and rewrite the chapters since I obviously always intended this to be the true storyline of Starcrossed.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-09-24 12:55am

Mara Jade was intentionally not trained as a Dark Side user; she just has Force abilities to aid her pragmatically as an assassin and agent.

Why bother when he has Luke's bitch exgirlfriend who Vader trained as a bastard supernuminary Sith apprentice (against the Rule of Two)? She's already much trained.

I imagine that Lumiya was Vader's back-up plan, and perhaps a thrall for Luke to cut his teeth on once Vader turned him.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-24 12:56am

She wasn't Shiarra was she IP? Thats the only one in the comics I can remember him having as a GF.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-09-24 01:13am

Ha! We'll make an EU fan out of you yet.

Shira Brie was indeed one of Vader's agents. Luke shot down her TIE, nearly killing her. Vader and his goons found her and put in her bacta and a bunch of cybornetics. Vader then offered her to Palpatine as an Emperor's Hand to placate him, but meanwhile he secretly violated the Rule of Two and took her on as a Sith apprentice. She assumed the name "Lumiya." During ROTJ she was on Ziost (the ancient and since-abandoned capital of the Sith Empire) researching and completing some of her Sith trials. Then Vader died.

She hated Luke after that; they fought twice several months after ROTJ, the latter of which Luke beat her. Nevertheless, she shrunk away to lick her wounds. The Empire had bequeathed her 4 ISDs, support ships, and red-armored Stormtroopers.

Lady Lumiya took on one of Vader's toadies, Flint, as a Sith apprentice. Luke defeated him and drew him back to the Light Side, though.

Later she takes on Soveriegn Protector Carnor Jax as an apprentice. This is the same goon who conspired with the Constable of Homunculi and some other Dark Side Adepts to sabotage the original genetic source material and kill all the remaining clones in the chamber after Palpatine died at Da Soocha V. Because of him, even though Palpatine assumed a fresh body, it was genetically flawed and he became rather unstable while his body decayed incredibly rapidly.

He went on to sieze control of the Empire proper while most of his fleet commanders and Moffs went warlord. Royal Guardsman Kir Kanos, the last surviving member of his order, avenged his master's death. He fought Jax and killed him, and then every member of Jax's "Interim Ruling Council."

After that, Lady Lumiya of the Sith stayed pretty low profile. She did emerge during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion to storm an Imperial research facility and make off with baffor pollen, which causes toxic effects for vaduun crab armor.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-24 03:36am

Obi-Wan's ghost can still talk to Luke, so he can still find out that Vader was his father, even before any hypothetical future confrontation with the Emperor.

After all, Obi-Wan WANTED Luke to kill Vader all along.

Luke: I can't kill my own father...

Ben: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our last hope...

The fact that Obi-Wan is still around means he can choose to fill Luke in on the details anytime he wants to. Yoda is also still alive, and we know he becomes a ghost when he dies, so ditto there.

Sides, I got the impression that Mara Jade really was only force sensitive. Any "powers" she had were given to her by Palpatine (per the "boosting" theory of the EU). When the Emperor died, she was basically back to zero.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-24 10:42pm

Kurgan wrote:Obi-Wan's ghost can still talk to Luke, so he can still find out that Vader was his father, even before any hypothetical future confrontation with the Emperor.

After all, Obi-Wan WANTED Luke to kill Vader all along.

Luke: I can't kill my own father...

Ben: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our last hope...

The fact that Obi-Wan is still around means he can choose to fill Luke in on the details anytime he wants to. Yoda is also still alive, and we know he becomes a ghost when he dies, so ditto there.

Sides, I got the impression that Mara Jade really was only force sensitive. Any "powers" she had were given to her by Palpatine (per the "boosting" theory of the EU). When the Emperor died, she was basically back to zero.

No, she had her own force powers.

She married Luke and became a Jedi and whooped Vong rear with a lightsaber 20 years later.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-24 10:55pm

This could one of two ways in my personal viewpoint.

a). Luke becomes sure of himself and turns to the Dark side.

b). Luke makes it off the station and goes back to Dagobah to complete his training, to better prepare to fight Palpatine.

The second could go any way with all of the ROTJ factors involved (such as, could Leia and co. still rescue Han without Luke?)

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-09-25 12:22am

I'm not too confident of Luke getting off the station. The civilians who could flee already have, taking their ships with them. His X-Wing is probably already surrounded, and the MF with R2D2 would not be returning. He may have beaten Vader at his game, but his performance against Fett wasn't that impressive, so fighting blaster style through stormtroopers to get to his ship, or to a shuttle is unlikely to be successful. That's my take at least.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-25 12:38am

Wicked Pilot wrote:I'm not too confident of Luke getting off the station. The civilians who could flee already have, taking their ships with them. His X-Wing is probably already surrounded, and the MF with R2D2 would not be returning. He may have beaten Vader at his game, but his performance against Fett wasn't that impressive, so fighting blaster style through stormtroopers to get to his ship, or to a shuttle is unlikely to be successful. That's my take at least.

Well, he could always tried to page Leia.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-25 01:01am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:She hated Luke after that; they fought twice several months after ROTJ, the latter of which Luke beat her. Nevertheless, she shrunk away to lick her wounds. The Empire had bequeathed her 4 ISDs, support ships, and red-armored Stormtroopers.

Is Lumiya nearly good enough to replace Vader, though? I can see Jerec being a valid replacement, but Lumiya. Lumiya that supposedly had to work to defeat Leia (in the esoteric source The Marvel Series: All Together Now?) Considering Leia's rated Force power as of Dark Empire was about 12 or 13D (Guardian level, measured between Control, Sense and Alter dice), I have real trouble believing Lumiya would be much better than the equivalent of 20D (Knight level). Palpatine oughta have someone better than that.

As for Mara Jade, she had Force talent (she became a knight in NJO), but from TTT, I guess the Emperor must not have taught her much beyond what she needed as a messenger. On her own power, she can barely annoy Thrawn with a throat-choke.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-09-25 08:12am

Luke doesn't lose his lose his hand and makes it off bespin.

RotJ still starts off as it's did in the original. Only this time Palpy will be on Endor waiting with for Skywalker, maybe with a new apprentice. Palpy hits Luke with the sith lightening and no daddy is there to save him. The Imperial FLeet, aided by Palpys force co-ordination, wiped out the Rebel fleet. The DS shattters Endor and the rebellion is dead.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-25 09:34am

Praxis wrote: No, she had her own force powers.

She married Luke and became a Jedi and whooped Vong rear with a lightsaber 20 years later.

So what was all the crap about her "losing her powers" when Palpatine died?

It seemed like she had to re-learn the Force from square one after she met Luke. Then again it's been many years since I read the Thrawn trilogy but I swear that's how it happened. Can we chalk this up to EU authors contradicting each other (like Leia's force abilities)? Or how did Zahn explain it?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-09-25 10:13am

Problem with using Lumiya post ESB

#1- She was still Shiria, and was undercover in the Alliance. She had not yet been injured during the Teazel incident. Without her Tie to Vader, she might have ended up joining the Rebellion after she started to fall in love with luke.

#2- The Force probably told luke to kill her cause she was working for Vader. No Vader = no reason to vap her.

I see this happening

Luke makes it off Bespin somehow, probably swiping an Imperial shuttle, and goes back to Dagobah to finish his training, or back to the Rebel fleet. I'm thinking probably towards Dagobah, cause he'd have no way of knowing that Han was in Carbonite. (He couldn't tell from that angle and all.) I know, the odds are he'd guess, but he can't be sure.

In the meantime, Palpatine recalls Lord Jerec, or any number of his dark side users. Candidates include Jerec, various Imperial Inquisitors, and several members of the Prophets of the Darkside and Secret Order of the Empire. One or two of the Emperor's Hands might be feasible, but not likely.
Most likely candidate: Lord Jerec.

So, The Emperor decides that Luke has got to go, and starts using his dark siders to set traps for Luke. i.e instead of letting the Bothans and Luke capture the computer with the Death Star plans on it, they get it, and tada; Two Imperial Inquisitors are waiting for luke.

Another possible: On Dantooine, there was a clone of Vader that was rather, shall we say dumb. I know it was pre-ESB, but why couldn't the Emperor just clone vader, put him into a clone and go 'The Kid got lucky eh?'

You have to admit, that would be far, far more unnerving to luke then a new sith lord.

"Hey Kid, you might have killed me, but that didn't stop me!"

Many possible scenarios come out of this.

Man, you could write a choose your own adventure fan fic from this rather easily.....

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-09-25 12:23pm

Messed up version

Luke beats Vader and manages to get away from Cloud City and hook up with the gang.

They decide to rescue Han but the planning takes awhile. During which time Luke feels more connected to Leia and vice versa. Luke ends up consoling her and they get horizontal.

It isn't until after they rescue Han that Luke goes to visit Yoda again.

"Slain your father and banged your sister you have. Unforseen this is".

Luke turns to the darkside. Kills Yoda and arranges a little accident for Han, and continues to "pound the princess" until he is totally consumed by the evil of the darkside.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2004-09-25 08:21pm

Well, if the prophecy still holds, the Chosen One is dead without ever balancing the Force. So most likely Luke will either fall to the dark side or be killed by the Emperor. The Empire will definitely survive either way, for a few decades at least.