DVDs & the million dollar question

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-09-26 11:30pm

Psycho Smiley wrote:*Looks*

So he did. I've never actually looked into this issue before now. I can hear the screams now: "Holy shit, RSA was right! It's the end of the world!" Seriously, though, the guy called it right.

Darkstar isn't quite as bad as people make him out to be. Sure he makes some doozy mistakes, but a fair amount of his work is actualy good. Problem is people automaticaly toss out any argument he makes. Someone else has to champion the argument before it would be accepted. I've done this before in PSW. RSA was right and the issue WAS settle before, people just wanted to see it AGAIN in the DVDs.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-26 11:31pm

So on to the real million dollar question: Why in hell didn't the Rebellion emply mass drivers?

(And I was right about seeing the back of the bridge neck even if the rest of the tower is gone.)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-09-26 11:32pm

Rogue 9 wrote:So on to the real million dollar question: Why in hell didn't the Rebellion emply mass drivers? (And I was right about seeing the back of the bridge neck even if the rest of the tower is gone.)

Mass drivers would never make it through the shields.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-09-27 12:04am

Could this have been some kind of secondary explosion?

It looks very vaporized to me.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-27 01:51am

Psycho Smiley wrote:please forgive the crappy paint skills.

Before impact

After impact

The second shot is the largest the cloud gets before going dark. This isn't perfect by any means, but there is obviously a part of the bridge missing.

Honestly, your argument would be more convincing if I could see those pictures you posted. For some reason, they ain't working for me.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-27 02:17am

Psycho Smiley wrote:The second shot is the largest the cloud gets before going dark. This isn't perfect by any means, but there is obviously a part of the bridge missing.

Sorry, but if you look at the orange brackets I've added to your pictures...

... It is obvious that the ship had been turning towards starboard, which throws a rather large wrench into the "obviously a part of the bridge missing" idea.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-09-27 02:18am

What Browser are you using?

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-27 02:24am

Tried both Mozilla Firefox and IE. Both failed.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-27 02:26am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Tried both Mozilla Firefox and IE. Both failed.

Can you see my? It's the same pics plus a few orange brackets.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-27 02:29am

Wait. The asteroid hit the port side of the bridge. So why would the starboard side be missing? I still say that I'm seeing the spindles of the sensor dome in the right place. Sadly, I don't have Photoshop and can't do the lines to point out what I'm seeing.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-27 02:40am

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Tried both Mozilla Firefox and IE. Both failed.
Can you see my? It's the same pics plus a few orange brackets.

Yes, thanks.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-27 03:11am

From what I gather from the pics, the whole bridge tower isn't destroyed. It's possible to see a geodesic dome and parts of the starboard bridge wing through the cloud.

Psycho Smiley · Post by **Psycho Smiley** » 2004-09-27 06:10am

Lord of the Farce wrote:*snip*
... It is obvious that the ship had been turning towards starboard, which throws a rather large wrench into the "obviously a part of the bridge missing" idea.

You are correct, sir! The face marked in the first picture is perpendicular to the viewing plane in the second, so the front of the bridge probably is, too! I never noticed that.

Given that, it is quite possible that most of the bridge is intact, just hiding behind the cloud.

Thanks for the correction.

[*EDIT* grammar fix and 2nd paragraph]

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-09-27 06:59am

When in ESB 2 ISD's collide, what kind of impact are we talking about compared to the asteroid?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-09-27 08:12am

The ISD's perspective has moved SLIGHTLY. It has not moved enough to shrowd the ISD. For starters the globe should be visible if it still existed.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-27 09:14am

Alyeska wrote:The ISD's perspective has moved SLIGHTLY.

Slightly at one place can mean signifigantly at another place, especially since we don't know for sure which point on the ISD was the axis of it's turn (and slight roll, if I'm not mistaken).

It has not moved enough to shrowd the ISD. For starters the globe should be visible if it still existed.

Unless we are suppose to belive that the asteroid ripped the entire rear end of the ISD off, why should the apparently missing globes matter (since we can see in the last frame that the dark dust clouds left by the asteroid still completely obscure the aforementioned rear end, and same could be inferred of the globe area)?

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-09-27 10:05am

I overlayed your picture with this sideview of a stardestroyer . Even if the destroyer is perpendicular to the camera we should still be able to see part of the bridge (white circle).

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-27 10:48am

teleguy wrote:I overlayed your picture with this sideview of a stardestroyer . Even if the destroyer is perpendicular to the camera we should still be able to see part of the bridge (white circle).
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/4728/Stardestroyer3.jpg

Read the previous post. Glowing white dust cloud does not equal to all of the dust present. Ignoring the fact that you are looking at the wrong side of the bridge by assuming that the entire bridge was ripped off, why the hell isn't the area behind the bridge (highlighted by the Executor's engines, no less) covered with debries?

EDIT: Remember boys and girls, you shouldn't quote pics... *cough*oops*cough*...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-09-27 11:11am

Alyeska wrote:This isn't as much a problem as you think. The vast majority of SW weapons are thermal or other various types of energy weapons. KE is not something SW armor is optimized for. Thats what the shields are for. That a warship would optimize its armor for the most common weapon is not a surprise. Infact its not unknown that armor can only be optimized for one or the other.

Not unknown hell, its a property of materials. Composites and good alloys can minimize the tradeoff, but you can't get around it entirely. Besides, the thing is probably the same as the island on an aircraft carrier - bridge and loads of important things are there, but ultimately its designed to do without it.

Now I find this whole thing funny. Darkstar already settled this particular debate with his own work on that picture.

You know as well as I do that Bobby has never settled anything.

That people still considered this a million dollar question kinda shows people were merely arguing for the sake or arguing. At least Poe and myself saw the light before this.

Not so much arguing so much as seeing if anything was changed. Besides, I already acknowledged that the thing got crumpled to hell.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-09-27 11:18am

Glowing white dust cloud does not equal to all of the dust present.

On the left side just below the missing bridge section there's a very sharp transition between glowing white dust cloud and complete visibility.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-09-27 11:20am

Lazy Raptor wrote:Could this have been some kind of secondary explosion?

It looks very vaporized to me.

No white flash corresponding with the energy release needed to vaporize the tower. The tower face itself is larger then the Truman. That's a whole mess of energy.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-09-27 11:23am

Alyeska wrote:Darkstar isn't quite as bad as people make him out to be.

I've gotten into that mindset from time to time as well. Going to his website and looking at what he actually writes about me, Poe, Mike or the others clears it up pretty quickly.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-09-27 12:03pm

teleguy wrote:
Glowing white dust cloud does not equal to all of the dust present.
On the left side just below the missing bridge section there's a very sharp transition between glowing white dust cloud and complete visibility.

Maybe, but if you look through the pictures frame-by-frame from 14 to 26 at the very front of the Executor's exhaust glow, you can see a black triangular shape with straight hard lines (especially 15 and 16) which progressively moves forward and up, highlighted by the Executor's exhaust glow (slowly closing the visible gap where you can see the aforementioned exhaust glow).

Using a simple 30cm clear plastic ruler, it's rather easy to tell that the point of this triangular is actually the corner of the ISD's "neck", and is in exactly the position it should be relative to the hull.

Now considering the angle and point of impact, how the hell does the entire front part of the bridge disappear (especially the starboard side), and the neck is clearly intact and where it's suppose to be?

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-09-27 02:10pm

I dunno if it'll make any difference, but this thread might have something to add to the discussion at hand. Different scenarios, to be sure, but something to think about.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-09-27 02:21pm

Alyeska wrote:RSA was right and the issue WAS settle before, people just wanted to see it AGAIN in the DVDs.

Wrong. What he claimed, and still claims, is that the ENTIRE tower is gone. I find no evidence to support this claim, old or new. I have never, ever, seen any point correctly claimed by Darkstar before, and I don't expect to see any, ever.