Arrows vs Stormtrooper armour

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-27 02:56am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Fletchlings?
The little feathers, usually attached with a slight twist, to stabilize the arrows in flight.

I see.

Ugh, Jesus, to CG those in after the fact would be such a bitch and a half...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-27 03:03am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote: Ugh, Jesus, to CG those in after the fact would be such a bitch and a half...

Yeah. That would be pretty crappy. There were hundreds of arrows flying around in some scenes, not to mention the ones on the bows.

As a possible in-universe explanation, do we even know if the Sanctuary Moon has birds to get such materials from?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-27 03:36am

Yeah, there are quite a few birds, just going by Canon. We hear bird calls and see feathers as part of Ewok headresses.

My guess would be that either Ewok arrows are too small or that Ewoks don't know enough aerodynamics to give arrows fletchlings.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-27 03:39am

It's fletching.

And yeah, given that the Ewok shaman had a big bird skull for a hat and several Ewoks were wearing feathers, we can hardly use that explanation.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-27 04:09am

Rogue 9 wrote:It's fletching. And yeah, given that the Ewok shaman had a big bird skull for a hat and several Ewoks were wearing feathers, we can hardly use that explanation.

Yeah. You're right. I had forgotten about those. Maybe the Ewoks were just too dumb to come up with the idea of fletching, inspite of the fact that they had developed primitive hang-gliders and catapults.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-27 04:36am

Or the Fletching Tax, or religious edict....

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2004-09-27 08:01am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:It's fletching. And yeah, given that the Ewok shaman had a big bird skull for a hat and several Ewoks were wearing feathers, we can hardly use that explanation.
Yeah. You're right. I had forgotten about those. Maybe the Ewoks were just too dumb to come up with the idea of fletching, inspite of the fact that they had developed primitive hang-gliders and catapults.

It might also be that the Ewoks just don't see the point. Given the circumstances, as they appear to live in what amounts to a temperate rainforest and apparently rely on trapping the majority of their prey animals, and may supplement that with short range stalking and shooting, long range accuracy of arrows may just not be a priority. As long as the bow lobs a miniature javelin farther than an Ewok can throw a javelin with its awkwardly short arms, everything's golden. The Bushmen have done fine hunting big game with unfletched (but poisoned) arrows for tens of thousands of years in the real world, after all, and many other real world low technology hunters use the same basic technique.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 12:28pm

By the way, medieval crossbowmen have been known to dip their bolts in beeswax to insure that the bolt would stick to the armor long enough for penetration.

If the body glove has a texture similar to neoprene and the Ewoks did apply some sort of adhesive to the tip of their arrows, it's quite possible that the arrows didn't penetrate the body glove at all. Rather they just could have been stuck to it.

Of course, this is all negated by Occam's Razor.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-09-27 02:01pm

Praxis wrote:Would anyone mind putting those into a 4-frame animated image, followed by my picture with the magnified arrow tip here:
http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/arrow3-edit.jpg
please? Thanks

I made one, but my webspace is crapping up as usual. Mail, anyone?

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 03:57pm

This conclusively proves that the arrow was in front of (and did not penetrate) the backpack:

I'm currently working on a color filter to discern the arrow from the backpack compartment. This is just to see if the body glove was actually penetrated or if the arrow just got wedged in the backpack.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-09-27 04:10pm

Hardy wrote:This conclusively proves that the arrow was in front of (and did not penetrate) the backpack:

The picture dosen't count because it's been edited. [/Darkstar]

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 04:34pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Hardy wrote:This conclusively proves that the arrow was in front of (and did not penetrate) the backpack:
The picture dosen't count because it's been edited. [/Darkstar]

This (hypothetically) coming from they guy who brightens and marks his pictures to prove his points. If he really said that he'd be a hypocrite. It wouldn't come as a surprise if he came out and said it anyway.

Also, I tried the same effect on Darkstar's caps. The Edge Detect puts the arrow behind the pack. But I did use the color filter and in all of the photos I have worked with, there is indeed something in front of the pack. It lines up with the arrow, so it should be the arrow.
(Makes you kinda wonder if he went through a dozen screencaps and found one that makes the arrow look like it penetrted the pack.)

I'll post the filtered pics soon.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 05:48pm

The filtered pics

Basically, I picked a pixel along the surface of the arrow (five pixels up from where the arrow "meets" the armor). Ii looked up it's color properties and inverted them. If I did it right, the arrow should disappear almost completely, leaving a black gap on the brim of the backpack.

It should be noted that a lot of the clarity was lost in the compression and transfer.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-09-27 06:16pm

Can you e-mail the original? andrew.younger @ gmail.com

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 06:53pm

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:Can you e-mail the original?

Sorry. I didn't save the originals saved to my computer. I had two Irfanview windows and one MSPaint window open and elaborately used my clipboard. I only have the final copy saved. The originals have their URLs listed, however.

This was a cropped, enlarged, sharpened, and Edged version of this.

Simply applying "Edge Detect" to that image would yield the same result.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-27 07:19pm

The originals of the bottom two:

The originals of DarkStar's pics may be found at +http://www.st-v-sw.net/dvdtemp

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-27 07:33pm

http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/arrow-strike2.mov

I managed to make a Quicktime one, though not everyone has quicktime. Nightmare, my email is praxis1(at)gmail.com.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-09-27 08:32pm

Praxis wrote:http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/arrow-strike2.mov

I managed to make a Quicktime one, though not everyone has quicktime. Nightmare, my email is praxis1(at)gmail.com.

660 kb on the way. Probably because the pics can't be optimized..

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-09-27 08:34pm

Here's another case of bodyglove hit, I can't find any direct arrow into armour hits that penetrate so far.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 10:53pm

Just out of pure creativity, I assumed:

1. The troopers on the right side were the same height.
2. They were on unever ground (which is not unfounded since the backround is a drastic elevation).

So using MSPaint, I moved the trooper in the foreground so that his head was on the same level with the second trooper. Since they were standing less than a foot apart, I conservatively scaled him down to 90%.
The result:

Note the position of the arrow. It can't possibly hit the backpack at all at that angle.
If the image is wrong, I think you have the idea. Try to use your mind to the first trooper so his body would line up perfectly with the second.

Also, while working with the length of the arrow and the distance from the troopers head, I kinda used the pythagorean theorum to determine that the arrow wouldn't be able to hit a few centimeters below the trooper's collarbone.

I suggest some emphasis should be put into the angle at which the arrow hit the trooper. You can determine where the arrow hit more accurately than looking at the arrow next to the backpack.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-27 10:56pm

Man, you're good at this. Kudos.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-27 11:16pm

It's just one of those days where I have way too much time on my hands.

Thanks.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-09-27 11:26pm

Praxis wrote:http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/arrow-strike2.mov

I managed to make a Quicktime one, though not everyone has quicktime. Nightmare, my email is praxis1(at)gmail.com.

"Couldnt open the file 'arrow-strike2.mov' because it is not a file that Quick Time understands"

Looks like your file is corrupted or something.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-09-28 01:10am

After watching Darkstar's AVIs (Rogue 9's quicktime didn't work), I've noticed a piece of damning evidence.

If you scroll back a few frames before this image you will see the entire arrow sitting right between the two troopers' heads. Look closely and you'll also see that the arrow is in the body glove and the backpack is almost out of sight. That shot can singlehandedly disprove Darkstar's position.

Of course, my copy of DivX isn't allowing me to take screencaps, so I can't post it. That goes along with the fact that I don't have the nessesary hardware and software to create DVD caps on my computer. Third, I won't even have the DVDs until Friday.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-09-28 01:39am

Icehawk wrote:
Praxis wrote:http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/arrow-strike2.mov

I managed to make a Quicktime one, though not everyone has quicktime. Nightmare, my email is praxis1(at)gmail.com.

"Couldnt open the file 'arrow-strike2.mov' because it is not a file that Quick Time understands"

Looks like your file is corrupted or something.

Huh. Runs in Quicktime for Mac anyway

I'll take a look into it.