Questions Regarding Look to Windward

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-27 05:19pm

First off, the Hub tells Major Quilan near the end that it has known all along what Quilan's mission was. How did the Hub find out? Did he end up after all looking into his mind as what Ziller requested?

Secondly, we learn at the end of the book that as of one Galactic Grand Cycle later (which is how long?) the Culture no longer exists. Has Banks ever mentioned what happened to the Culture? Did they all end up subliming sometime after the events of LTW?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-27 05:31pm

Mlenk wrote:First off, the Hub tells Major Quilan near the end that it has known all along what Quilan's mission was. How did the Hub find out? Did he end up after all looking into his mind as what Ziller requested?

No, more likely something far, far more subtle. They're Minds and I wouldn't put it past one to have deduced it from a simple examination of their person and an analysis of the Quilan's action and such.

That and I think the Culture just plain knew more through other means. That E-dust didn't get dispatched on a whim.

Mlenk wrote:Secondly, we learn at the end of the book that as of one Galactic Grand Cycle later (which is how long?) the Culture no longer exists. Has Banks ever mentioned what happened to the Culture? Did they all end up subliming sometime after the events of LTW?

No idea how long a Galatic Grand Cycle is, on a guess it's the time it takes for the Galaxy to rotate once on it's axis. And no he hasn't specifically said, most likely they evolved into a new group/culture/people or just sublimed.

The last book chronologically is Excession.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-27 05:39pm

Stormbringer wrote: The last book chronologically is Excession.

Really? How'd you figure that? I thought on the Culture FAQ it said that LTW was the last one.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2004-09-27 06:17pm

I have another question regarding Look to Windward.

Who was behind the plot? Who was the people who helped him with the wormhole?

LapsedPacifist · Post by **LapsedPacifist** » 2004-09-27 06:23pm

Its never revealed who's behind the plot to build the wormhole. Given the overall feel of suicide/leaving behind pain it may well have been the Culture. Of course, the Culture does exist in some form after a complete grand cycle, and that doesn't jive with a people who screwed with the airspheres...

LP

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-09-27 06:24pm

It's never really discovered who is behind the plot, whether they're an equiv-tech Involved or whether it's a bunch of rogue minds setting the Chelgrians up for another fall.

The Culture knew what Quilan's mission was partly because Huyler was a Culture double agent and partly because they have very many excellent spies..

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-27 06:35pm

I believe the Galactic Grand Cycle is around a million years, so the Culture is probably long gone either to other galaxies or universes or simply sublimed.

As for the antagonists, I always preferred the theory that it was a group of Minds that weren't too happy about the Culture's direction. Much like those that see the 9/11 attacks as being planned by the US gov't or some higher, Illuminati like echelons of it to aid in getting the nation to take control of the Middle-east, these Minds may have wanted the Culture to wake-up to the fact that the Idirans aren't the last aggressive force out there.

It may never be resolved, so we speculate and I'm not putting it past some Contact Minds having a Bilderberg like committee to alter how the civilisation thinks.

LtW is also the last book which the title alone suggest as it is the last stanza or so of the poem by T.S. Eliot. It's a subtle hint, along with the final chapter with the airsphere scene that depicts the end of the Culture, or perhaps an evolution.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-27 07:37pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:LtW is also the last book which the title alone suggest as it is the last stanza or so of the poem by T.S. Eliot. It's a subtle hint, along with the final chapter with the airsphere scene that depicts the end of the Culture, or perhaps an evolution.

Actually, I think the presence of some of the cross book characters between LtW and Ex suggests it takes place later.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-28 01:34am

Stormbringer wrote: Actually, I think the presence of some of the cross book characters between LtW and Ex suggests it takes place later.

Are you talking about how the hub talks about the Gray Area and it's being renamed the Meatfucker?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-28 01:39am

Mlenk wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Actually, I think the presence of some of the cross book characters between LtW and Ex suggests it takes place later.
Are you talking about how the hub talks about the Gray Area and it's being renamed the Meatfucker?

Yes. Given that Grey Area disappeared, I'd say that it would have to be later.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-28 01:50am

You're saying that Excession takes place after LTW, right? But if LTW took place before Ex then how would the hub know about the Gray Area disapearing at the end of Ex?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-28 01:59am

Mlenk wrote:You're saying that Excession takes place after LTW, right? But if LTW took place before Ex then how would the hub know about the Gray Area disapearing at the end of Ex?

Yes, Excession has to take place after Look to Windward for the simple reason that it hadn't disappeared yet. As far as I know the Mind didn't know about the disappearance; it just mentions that Meatfucker messes around with sentient minds (the tenses implying it's still around/just getting started).

And when you think about it AV's Mind conspiracy did happen against the Affront.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2004-09-28 02:11am

Regarding the mention of Meatfucker in LtW:

"To be denied your self-designated name is a unique insult in the Culture, Ziller. The vessel disappeared some time ago. Probably it killed itself, arguably as a result of the shame attached to such behaivour and resulting disrespect."

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-28 02:16am

XaLEv wrote:Regarding the mention of Meatfucker in LtW:

"To be denied your self-designated name is a unique insult in the Culture, Ziller. The vessel disappeared some time ago. Probably it killed itself, arguably as a result of the shame attached to such behaivour and resulting disrespect."

Yeah, that's the quote I was looking for.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-28 07:05am

XaLEv wrote:Regarding the mention of Meatfucker in LtW:

"To be denied your self-designated name is a unique insult in the Culture, Ziller. The vessel disappeared some time ago. Probably it killed itself, arguably as a result of the shame attached to such behaivour and resulting disrespect."

That's what I tried to remember, thanks. I always recall Excession took place around 2100AD and that LtW took place another century after or so because I had 2200AD stuck in my head when reading it, but it has been four years since I read that book and must do so again.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-28 11:54am

Admiral Valdemar wrote: That's what I tried to remember, thanks. I always recall Excession took place around 2100AD and that LtW took place another century after or so because I had 2200AD stuck in my head when reading it, but it has been four years since I read that book and must do so again.

I don't remember seeing any dates mentioned in any of the books. Where'd you find that out?

SHODAN · Post by **SHODAN** » 2004-09-28 12:55pm

Appendices at the end of Consider Phlebas give earth dates: Idiran war officially started 1327AD and ended in 1375; war in space effectively ended in 1367. The Player of Games mentions the GOU Limiting Factor was "constructed seven hundred and sixteen years earlier in the closing stages of the Idiran war, when conflict in space was almost over", which places PoG around 2080-2090AD. The State of the Art happened in 1977. The rest are more or less guesses.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-28 04:41pm

I believe the dates are in relation to the end of that particular conflict with the Idirans much like how SW dates are so many years prior or after Yavin.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-28 08:28pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I believe the dates are in relation to the end of that particular conflict with the Idirans much like how SW dates are so many years prior or after Yavin.

No, they're AD. You can tell, because we know State Of The Art was in 1977 because they go to see Star Wars.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2004-09-29 12:16am

God I need to read State of the Art.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2004-09-29 12:35am

Me too. I literally cannot find it anywhere, even at Amazon. That's the one last Culture book I have to read.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2004-09-29 01:47am

Mlenk wrote:Me too. I literally cannot find it anywhere, even at Amazon. That's the one last Culture book I have to read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 1?v=glance

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-29 09:52am

SirNitram wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:I believe the dates are in relation to the end of that particular conflict with the Idirans much like how SW dates are so many years prior or after Yavin.
No, they're AD. You can tell, because we know State Of The Art was in 1977 because they go to see Star Wars.

I know. I was referring to certain parts where it says so many hundreds of years after the war etc. The Culture-Idiran war is like the Battle of Yavin for the Cultureverse and acts as a good marker given no book occurs prior to it.

SHODAN · Post by **SHODAN** » 2004-09-29 09:55am

SirNitram wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:I believe the dates are in relation to the end of that particular conflict with the Idirans much like how SW dates are so many years prior or after Yavin.
No, they're AD. You can tell, because we know State Of The Art was in 1977 because they go to see Star Wars.

You can also tell, because it is said in the books:

Consider Phlebas, page 447 wrote:(The following three passages have been extracted from A Short History of the Idiran War (English langue/Christian calendar version, original text 2110 AD, unaltered), edited by Parharengyisa Listach Ja'andeesih Petrain dam Kotosklo. The work forms part of an independent, non-commissioned but Contact-approved Earth Extro-Information Pack.)

and

The State of the Art, page 105? wrote:By the spring of the year 1977 AD, the General Contact Unit Arbitrary had been stationed above the planet Earth for the best part of six months.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-29 09:56am

Sriad wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Me too. I literally cannot find it anywhere, even at Amazon. That's the one last Culture book I have to read.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 1?v=glance

Oh Jez-us.

Is there someone in America who makes it his job to produce the shittest book, DVD and game covers for Statesiders?

Do yourself a favour, get the UK version. I know it's more hassle, but I had to go through this to get Bolo books not sold here for some reason.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Questions Regarding Look to Windward

Questions Regarding Look to Windward

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