Star Trek vs. Star Wars:The Legacy

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-30 11:26am

Which of these two Science Fiction archetypes has had the most impact on Americian Culture?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-30 01:14pm

definentally Star Wars. The universal recognizization of Darth Vader, the US introduces STI and what is it called by the PRESS that's right STAR WARS, Trops in desert storm describe their firefights to be like something out of Star Wars(cause we has green trasers while they had read ones), ect, ect, ect.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-30 02:55pm

You are missing a third option: Equally affected American Culture

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-30 03:13pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:You are missing a third option: Equally affected American Culture

No, that would be the end result. Equal votes for each.
Even if 51% of the votes were for equal, if the remaining would have to be divided evenly between both for it to be a tie.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2002-10-30 05:13pm

Without Star Trek there may not have been Star Wars...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-30 05:16pm

Soulman wrote:Without Star Trek there may not have been Star Wars...

no without Flash Gordon there wouldn't be Star Wars

Really Star Trek would be dead right now if not for Star Wars.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-30 05:19pm

Soulman wrote:Without Star Trek there may not have been Star Wars...

Except Star Wars (or b5, Farscape, and so many other) had nothing to do with Star Trek. In fact if it weren't for Star Wars, trek would be rotting in the purgatory of cancelled shows.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-30 09:35pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Soulman wrote:Without Star Trek there may not have been Star Wars...
Except Star Wars (or b5, Farscape, and so many other) had nothing to do with Star Trek. In fact if it weren't for Star Wars, trek would be rotting in the purgatory of cancelled shows.

Yes the series Star Trek II didn't look too promising

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-31 07:15pm

SW, of course, had a more lasting impact. It altered the way that movies are made. ST was a very good television series, and it had its own firsts, but SW changed the motive of movie makers. It COINED the term "Blockbuster." ST never had that kind of impact. It was an important show, but it was nothing next to the magnitude of SW's impact on American culture.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-10-31 08:21pm

The simple fact is that movies tend to have a greater impact on culture than movies. Look at the hullaballoo that surrounds the release of a new Star Wars movie, and the... whisper... that surrounds the release of a new Star Trek movie.

Star Trek's time to shine was TOS. TNG had a bit of that glimmer, but it faded. DS9 really only captured the fanboys, and Voyager... well... that was to Star Trek what TPM was to Star Wars.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-10-31 08:42pm

Yup. But also, I think that Star Wars may seem a bit more "respectable" as it is a movie as opposed to ST, which started as a TV show. In other words, there are more people that would admit to being fans of SW and allow it to develop more in American culture as opposed to the more Trekkie view of ST fans. Of course there are rabid SW fans as well, but it has a greater semblance of respectability. ST still contributed to American culture, but not to as great of an extent as SW. I think that the effect from this is due to the older fans of TOS who have allowed it to become a part of American culture. I mean who would the average person know of, Capt. Kirk or Capt. Janeway? SW on the other hands has older fans as well as new ones, especially with the re-release of the OT recently, so that there is a continuous push of it into American culture.

That and Natalie Portman doesn't hurt.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-01 10:05am

Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-11-01 04:22pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.

Yes, and even Predident Reagan used the phrase "May The Force Be With You" once. The fact it was while talking to astronaunts on the space shuttle makes it even nicer since he could have used something out of Star Trek but he didn't. The only real thing Star Trek has gotten like that is having the Space Shuttle Flight test model named after the Starship Enterprise.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-01 05:32pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.

VGR is considered a joke by most Scifi fans, only a select few rabid fans of a specific genere actually hate the entirety of Trek. Why else do you think TNG is relatively popular on TNN and TOS on the Scifi channel?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-01 05:35pm

Alyeska wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.
VGR is considered a joke by most Scifi fans, only a select few rabid fans of a specific genere actually hate the entirety of Trek. Why else do you think TNG is relatively popular on TNN and TOS on the Scifi channel?

Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-01 05:42pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.

Actually, both SW and ST are sometimes considered "jokes" by hardcore sci-fi writers. When most serious writers think of science fiction, they think of societies that have been completely altered by one of the following: a bizarre planet/set of circumstances, a new technology, a different physiology, or by simply being a different race. The purpose of such "serious" sci-fi is to explore a new society, and to see how the beings react to their circumstances. SW and ST, by comparison, are generally classified under "fantasy." That is, their primary purpose is to explore their characters, rather than a society as a whole.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-11-01 05:43pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.
VGR is considered a joke by most Scifi fans, only a select few rabid fans of a specific genere actually hate the entirety of Trek. Why else do you think TNG is relatively popular on TNN and TOS on the Scifi channel?
Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.

I like TOS too and i tolerate TNG but DS9 and Voyager ruined Star Trek for me so that I haven't even looked at Enterprise

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-01 06:39pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote: VGR is considered a joke by most Scifi fans, only a select few rabid fans of a specific genere actually hate the entirety of Trek. Why else do you think TNG is relatively popular on TNN and TOS on the Scifi channel?
Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.
I like TOS too and i tolerate TNG but DS9 and Voyager ruined Star Trek for me so that I haven't even looked at Enterprise

DS9 did NOT ruin ST. Those who insist on watching and remembering the first 2 seasons might not like it, but just IGNORE the first two seasons and you see the last 5 of DS9 were actually quite good. The best episodes were the ones that B&B did not have a hand in. I have no doubt if you don't like an episode from the last 3 seasons in DS9, B&B had a hand in it.

Rondald Moore IIRC tried working on Voyager once but couldn't stand the technobable.

Frank LLoyd Wright · Post by **Frank LLoyd Wright** » 2002-11-02 02:33am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.
Actually, both SW and ST are sometimes considered "jokes" by hardcore sci-fi writers. When most serious writers think of science fiction, they think of societies that have been completely altered by one of the following: a bizarre planet/set of circumstances, a new technology, a different physiology, or by simply being a different race. The purpose of such "serious" sci-fi is to explore a new society, and to see how the beings react to their circumstances. SW and ST, by comparison, are generally classified under "fantasy." That is, their primary purpose is to explore their characters, rather than a society as a whole.

The recent expansion of the cultures in the prequells gives me the feeling that George Lucas is doing both quite well. The immersive landscapes and character interactions of his worlds speak volumes of culture.
"No, you do not want to sell me death sticks.
You want to go home and think about your life."
The bar scene on Coruscant Ep2.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-02 09:58pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Star Trek is considered a joke by most Sci Fi fans, yet Star Wars goes from strength to strength. You ask any american movie go-er or any movie goer in general whjat his or her top 10 movie moments are ans star wars will appear in there a few times atleast. Star Wars defined a generation of movies, Star Trek only got resurected coz of the Star Wars craze.
VGR is considered a joke by most Scifi fans, only a select few rabid fans of a specific genere actually hate the entirety of Trek. Why else do you think TNG is relatively popular on TNN and TOS on the Scifi channel?
Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.

Out of curiosity, why do you like TOS?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-02 10:28pm

I'm not aware of any defense program named after Star Trek, and who really cares what the shuttle prototypegot named?

I'd say Star War's has had a greater impact by a very wide margin.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-02 10:40pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.
Out of curiosity, why do you like TOS?

Cool characters, not two-dimensional "hey, I represent a particular virtue!" characters like TNG or worse yet, soap-opera characters like DS9 or Voyager. Also: no technobabble.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-02 10:42pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:I'm not aware of any defense program named after Star Trek, and who really cares what the shuttle prototype got named?

Heh heh, no kidding. They each have their spheres of influence. People think of Star Trek when they think of space exploration. People think of Star Wars when they think of futuristic weapons and warfare. One of those spheres of influence is, however, much larger than the other.

I'd say Star War's has had a greater impact by a very wide margin.

Not only is Star Wars considered virtually synonymous with futuristic weapons and warfare (not to mention androids, ie- robots), but people often explain what Taoism is by making reference to the Force from Star Wars. Star Wars is a mass-appeal cultural phenomenon in a way that Star Trek never was.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-02 10:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Hey, I like TOS, and I can tolerate TNG. But Star Trek has made itself into the butt of jokes now.
Out of curiosity, why do you like TOS?
Cool characters, not two-dimensional "hey, I represent a particular virtue!" characters like TNG or worse yet, soap-opera characters like DS9 or Voyager. Also: no technobabble.

The pure anti proton beam was a bit annoying, though the giant planet killing death stalactite that used it was more then cool enough to make up for it.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-02 10:46pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:who really cares what the shuttle prototypegot named?

Besides which, there's a long tradition of naming vessels Enterprise in both the British and American navies and military air units. In fact, the shuttle prototype was Enterprise XIII (if using American significant historical sea/aircraft named Enterprise only) or Enterprise XXII (if using British and American vessels). The only current Enterprises I know of are a Barbados patrol craft P-02 Enterprise and the Goodyear Blimp GZ-20 Enterprise (which are world-wide Enterprise XXV and XXVI respectively).

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Star Trek vs. Star Wars:The Legacy

Which one has had the most impact?

Star Trek vs. Star Wars:The Legacy