I like that whenever these "Activist Judges shouldn't be legislating" crowd are countered with Brown v. Board of Education there's a lot of handwaving and grudging acknowledgement that it might be the only exception.Scalia: Abortion 'too fundamental' for judges
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 Posted: 11:30 AM EDT (1530 GMT)
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (AP) -- Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says he believes "abstract moralizing" has led the American judicial system into a quagmire, and that matters such as abortion and assisted suicide are "too fundamental" to be resolved by judges.
"What I am questioning is the propriety, indeed the sanity, of having value-laden decisions such as these made for the entire society ... by judges," Scalia said on Tuesday during an appearance at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.
In some cases -- and in response to a question from the audience, he acknowledged Brown vs. Board of Education was one -- there is a societal benefit when a court rules against prevailing popular opinion, but generally speaking it is fundamentally bad for democracy, he said.
While Scalia never mentioned the gay marriage issue specifically, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has come under fire nationally for overstepping its authority on the issue.
That court ruled last year that gay couples constitutionally could not be denied marriage licenses; the decision paved the way for the nation's first state-sanctioned same-sex marriages.
"I believe in liberal democracy, which is a democracy that worries about the tyranny of the majority, but it is the majority itself that must draw the lines," Scalia said.
As an example, he cited the women's suffrage movement, which he said resulted from the will of the people, not a court.
On an unrelated issue, Scalia was asked why he refused to step aside in a case involving Vice President Dick Cheney when the two had gone duck hunting together.
At first he refused to discuss the case, but then said there was no legal precedent for recusal and that any controversy was whipped up by the media
Scalia: Abortion too fundamental for courts to decide
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Scalia: Abortion too fundamental for courts to decide
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
- Stormbringer
- King of Democracy
- Posts: 22678
- Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm
Re: Scalia: Abortion too fundamental for courts to decide
And of course let's not forget that the Supreme Court also gave us Plessey vs Ferguson as well. Not to mention things like the Dred Scott decision.Stravo wrote:I like that whenever these "Activist Judges shouldn't be legislating" crowd are countered with Brown v. Board of Education there's a lot of handwaving and grudging acknowledgement that it might be the only exception.
The Courts are far from perfect and don't come close to operating in a vaccumn. Had the Civil Rights movement not been active Brown vs Board might never have happened, let alone overturned the prior precedents. It took more than the Court Ruling to give Brown v Board some teeth, you know like a president sending the 101st Airborne to integrate a school. Scalia is a moron if he thinks the Courts shouldn't have a say; but social change is definitely preferable to judicial rulings.
And I swear, activist judge has replaced neo-con as the most abused term on the board.
Re: Scalia: Abortion too fundamental for courts to decide
Courts stepping in to decide political instead if legal issues goes back to the founding of SCOTUS, hell they recently elected a president by judicial fiat. The sheer stupidity of griping about activist judges shows an ignorance of legal history. Its only when the decision that comes down against you is it when they are suddenly activists.Stormbringer wrote:And of course let's not forget that the Supreme Court also gave us Plessey vs Ferguson as well. Not to mention things like the Dred Scott decision.Stravo wrote:I like that whenever these "Activist Judges shouldn't be legislating" crowd are countered with Brown v. Board of Education there's a lot of handwaving and grudging acknowledgement that it might be the only exception.
This is about the concept of a court system trying to pretend that it is above interpreting the law and finding new precedent which is what its there for. For every Dred Scott there's a Roe v. Wade, A Brown v. Board of Education. I'll take my chances with them over the slack jawed idiots we tend to elect that pander to the least educated and most vocal of the electorate.
*Shrugs* Its funny and ironic at teh same time. I put it right up there with using the term fundie. Everyone immediately knows what we're talking about with that one label.Stormbringer wrote:And I swear, activist judge has replaced neo-con as the most abused term on the board.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
- The Kernel
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7438
- Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
- Location: Kweh?!
Scalia is an idiot. The whole purpose of the SCOTUS is to rule on issues that are matters of Constitutional and Legal interpretation. Hell, it's very creation was designed to counterbalance a possible tyranny of the majority and it has successfully been used in that capacity many times in history.
Hell, he even mentions Brown vs. Board of Education as being a good thing, but only because that particular ruling " [had] a societal benefit". What exactly does he think that means and who makes the distinction between a situation like that and other societal imperatives that shouldn't be decided by the SCOTUS? Sorry Antonin, but you can't have it both ways and your attempt to drive a wedge between the two is just more of your usual subjective bullshit.
While there might be certain cases that a court is ill equipped to design legal definitions (the legal status of a fetus for example) I would love to which particular group would be more qualified then the judiciary.
Hell, he even mentions Brown vs. Board of Education as being a good thing, but only because that particular ruling " [had] a societal benefit". What exactly does he think that means and who makes the distinction between a situation like that and other societal imperatives that shouldn't be decided by the SCOTUS? Sorry Antonin, but you can't have it both ways and your attempt to drive a wedge between the two is just more of your usual subjective bullshit.
While there might be certain cases that a court is ill equipped to design legal definitions (the legal status of a fetus for example) I would love to which particular group would be more qualified then the judiciary.
- Stormbringer
- King of Democracy
- Posts: 22678
- Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm
Which goes to show that most people are totally ignorant of the actual definition of judicial activism is. It's people, not unlike many here, who sling it around with no clue as to it's meaning. And never mind that Scalia and Thomas are more activist judges than any one elseCourts stepping in to decide political instead if legal issues goes back to the founding of SCOTUS, hell they recently elected a president by judicial fiat. The sheer stupidity of griping about activist judges shows an ignorance of legal history. Its only when the decision that comes down against you is it when they are suddenly activists.
It stuns me how people here and in the real world can so mindlessly latch onto a term and sling it around with no understanding of it at all.
Actually it's Scalia, who has always been something of a quack.This is about the concept of a court system trying to pretend that it is above interpreting the law and finding new precedent which is what its there for.
Actually, I'd trust groups aimed at genuine social reform before I'd trust either of them, Both the courts and the legistlature are largely reflexive bodies and always have been; and if you look the cases were as often settled on public opinion as not. In that Scalia's right, social movements settle issues more often, and more effectively, than court rulings.For every Dred Scott there's a Roe v. Wade, A Brown v. Board of Education. I'll take my chances with them over the slack jawed idiots we tend to elect that pander to the least educated and most vocal of the electorate.
*Shrugs* Its funny and ironic at teh same time.
I do find it ironic that a Supreme Court
Actually, I'd be suprised if more than two or three people here actually did know what the hell an activist judge is.I put it right up there with using the term fundie. Everyone immediately knows what we're talking about with that one label.