Why do R2 units not speak?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-09-29 04:48pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Sharp-kun wrote:Jabba could understand basic, but I don't think he could speak it. Likewise Han understood Huttese, but pronunciation was difficult for a human.
I think Han must know like a dozen languages and can probably swear fluently in a hundred. Because he understands Greedo's peoples language, Huttese, Wookiee, what ever language Leia was speaking while undercover and droid (on top of English) completely conversationally without need of a translator.

However, I don't think that Huttese is beyond the scope of humans, since Anakin managed to speak it just fine.

Anakin had grown up around it and learned it as a second language.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-29 05:54pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I think Han must know like a dozen languages and can probably swear fluently in a hundred. Because he understands Greedo's peoples language, Huttese, Wookiee, what ever language Leia was speaking while undercover and droid (on top of English) completely conversationally without need of a translator.

For the record, IIRC, Leia didn't speak a word of Ubese to Han before removing her helmet.

Additionally, humans can speak Huttese alright, except that several nuances of the language are beyond their vocal range (Huttese extends into the sub- and ultrasonic ranges). So while humans can speak Huttese, to a Hutt some of it probably sounds like crap.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-09-29 06:27pm

And Greedo was speaking Huttese, along with Bib Fortuna, Sebulba, and Watto.

One reason Jabba could be speaking only in Huttese is he may consider speaking in Basic (a language he clearly understands well, but may not necessarily be completely fluent in it) to be 'beneath' him(Hutts compare themselves to gods and doubtfully would use an alien language), and would rather speak his own comfortable language than use Basic with a heavy-accent, imperfect grammar, and possibly slurred consonants. In a way it anchors his word as definitive or the clearest and forces his audience to adapt to him.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-29 11:26pm

Are you sure? What Greedo didn't sound very much like the language that Jabba was saying.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-29 11:35pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Are you sure? What Greedo didn't sound very much like the language that Jabba was saying.

According to Burtt it's what he made for Huttesse.

Perhaps a different dialect?

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-09-29 11:37pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Are you sure? What Greedo didn't sound very much like the language that Jabba was saying.

They both contain similar sound bits/types of syllables and pattern, plus they're both just made from chunks of sentences in the language Quechua.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-29 11:38pm

Ghost Rider wrote:According to Burtt it's what he made for Huttesse.

Perhaps a different dialect?

Maybe. I also don't see why all Hutt would have to speak the same language. Greedo could be speaking a different Hutt language.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-09-29 11:52pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:According to Burtt it's what he made for Huttesse.

Perhaps a different dialect?
Maybe. I also don't see why all Hutt would have to speak the same language. Greedo could be speaking a different Hutt language.

There's really no reason to assume it's another Hutt language, especially when there's not exactly any conclusive evidence that it's even a different dialect just because it uses different Quechua sentences.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-30 08:57am

Utsanomiko wrote:They both contain similar sound bits/types of syllables and pattern, plus they're both just made from chunks of sentences in the language Quechua.

You could claim that Spanish and English are the same language that way. I'm telling you, they aren't consistant with each other.

I acknowledge that George Lucas is not JRR Tolkien and realize that he makes these things up as he goes along to sound like vaguely English sounding alien stuff* but they don't sound right if they are the same language. When I get home from school I'll start matching up verbs and congegation from both sets of dialogue, particular highly translateable verbs that always pop up like "to be" and are hard to make idiomatic phrases. That way we can tell if they are using the same language. If the verbs aren't consistant, then it's probably not the same language.

*"vaguely English sounding alien stuff" meaning that the words, while not English, are easily guessed at what they mean. For instance, someone said "Bantha poodoo" to mean "Bantha fodder (IE shit)" once. Plus, the inflection is very English. There are notable suggestions like Wookiee and Geonosian, of course.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-30 10:47am

Gil...the script says otherwise literally.

And this has nothing to do with Lucas...it has to do with Brett Burtt...and he says it's Huttese and made a EU book of it which backs his statement up.

The guy who made the language uses Huttese for Greedo. So unless somehow you have the entire language in front of you how exactly are you going to find the similarites when the EU has also stated that the language has different dilects.

So far against you is the guy who made the language, the script and the words he made specifcally for that scene and said were for Huttese.

In SOD Burrt doesn't count, but with SoD you have to show they are different to warrant the thought that he is speaking something like Bocce. Which means a distinct knowledge of Huttese that so far only one book has shown and it confirms Greedo as speaking Huttese within that universe.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-09-30 11:26am

Gil Hamilton wrote:You could claim that Spanish and English are the same language that way. I'm telling you, they aren't consistant with each other.

You could also hem-haw subjectively that two Spanish-speakers aren't speaking the same language if you weren't familiar with how the language worked or sounded under different voices/accents of if you couldn't hear identical words in the places in the sentence you expect them to be in English. I could just as easily point out various syllables, common vowels, and distinguishable words that crop up in Greedo's lines that are found in Jabba's, Sebulba's, and Watto's Huttese, but as GR points out, the onus is on you to prove one of them is a different language despite them being both listed as Huttese.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-09-30 11:50am

Utsanomiko wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:You could claim that Spanish and English are the same language that way. I'm telling you, they aren't consistant with each other.
You could also hem-haw subjectively that two Spanish-speakers aren't speaking the same language if you weren't familiar with how the language worked or sounded under different voices/accents of if you couldn't hear identical words in the places in the sentence you expect them to be in English. I could just as easily point out various syllables, common vowels, and distinguishable words that crop up in Greedo's lines that are found in Jabba's, Sebulba's, and Watto's Huttese, but as GR points out, the onus is on you to prove one of them is a different language despite them being both listed as Huttese.

IIRC, there are different dialects of Spanish, such as Castelina (sp). Why not different dialects of Hutt? For that matter, think of the differences between the Queen's English and American English.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-30 12:22pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Gil...the script says otherwise literally.

And this has nothing to do with Lucas...it has to do with Brett Burtt...and he says it's Huttese and made a EU book of it which backs his statement up.

The guy who made the language uses Huttese for Greedo. So unless somehow you have the entire language in front of you how exactly are you going to find the similarites when the EU has also stated that the language has different dilects.

So far against you is the guy who made the language, the script and the words he made specifcally for that scene and said were for Huttese.

In SOD Burrt doesn't count, but with SoD you have to show they are different to warrant the thought that he is speaking something like Bocce. Which means a distinct knowledge of Huttese that so far only one book has shown and it confirms Greedo as speaking Huttese within that universe.

I'm sure it all is listed as the same language by Burrt, but I'm not joshing you or trying to give you a hard time when I'm saying that what appears on my copy of StarWars: A New Hope that comes out of Greedo's mouthflap and what comes out of Jabba's pie hole in StarWars: Return of the Jedi aren't consistant enough to be the same language. Give me a day to copy down dialogue, do a little cross-referencing to identify major non-idiomatic verbs in each, and I'll demonstrate my point. After all, dialects wouldn't have radically different grammar or verbs and would still be recognizably the same language.

Did this Brett Burrt guy actually write Huttese for George Lucas for the scripts of StarWars? Because I thought that George Lucas wrote the dialogue for the movie.

What I don't see is why there cannot be multiple languages that the Hutts speak. After all, it's not like we don't speak hundreds of languages on Earth, and the Hutts have been starfaring for many thousands of years. They could literally have hundreds of thousands of distinct languages in that time, and all of them on the galactic scale could be summed up as "Huttese".

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-30 12:30pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Gil...the script says otherwise literally.

And this has nothing to do with Lucas...it has to do with Brett Burtt...and he says it's Huttese and made a EU book of it which backs his statement up.

The guy who made the language uses Huttese for Greedo. So unless somehow you have the entire language in front of you how exactly are you going to find the similarites when the EU has also stated that the language has different dilects.

So far against you is the guy who made the language, the script and the words he made specifcally for that scene and said were for Huttese.

In SOD Burrt doesn't count, but with SoD you have to show they are different to warrant the thought that he is speaking something like Bocce. Which means a distinct knowledge of Huttese that so far only one book has shown and it confirms Greedo as speaking Huttese within that universe.
I'm sure it all is listed as the same language by Burrt, but I'm not joshing you or trying to give you a hard time when I'm saying that what appears on my copy of StarWars: A New Hope that comes out of Greedo's mouthflap and what comes out of Jabba's pie hole in StarWars: Return of the Jedi aren't consistant enough to be the same language. Give me a day to copy down dialogue, do a little cross-referencing to identify major non-idiomatic verbs in each, and I'll demonstrate my point.

I have this too...Burrt puts it in his book to show literally the dialogue and what parts are from Huttese that he took.

Literally there are phrases that both Greedo and Jabba uses that are from his mouth both Huttese.

Did this Brett Burrt guy actually write Huttese for George Lucas for the scripts of StarWars? Because I thought that George Lucas wrote the dialogue for the movie.

He wrote Lucas just wrote what he wanted the words to mean in English.

They even go into description of where he got it from. Quite literally he goes into vast detail of the languages and where he got them from.

And I'm also basing this on literally the script's words of both Greedo and Jabba's SE.

Literally he shows where it came from and places it in the EU in this book as a translation guide for people who only know basic.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-30 12:33pm

There is a rather enjoyable site that deals with Huttese and other languages that can be found using the link below:

+http://www.geocities.com/wermosguidetoh ... se101.html

Check it out.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-30 12:50pm

I'll concede the point for the moment, but I'm still not convinced, really. They don't quite sound right to me.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-30 01:02pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Do you know of an instance where humans get specific information from R2 without 3PO or some other translator around?

You can tell from his tone, inflection and behavior what he thinks of the situation he's in, but the only ones who really understand him are other droids and computer systems.

In the Dark Fleet trilogy, when Lando, Lobot, C3PO and R2D2 were trapped inside the Vagabond of Teljkon and C3PO was damaged, Lobot had problems to communicate with R2D2, in spite of the emotional inflexion of the sounds made by artoo.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-09-30 01:08pm

LadyTevar wrote: IIRC, there are different dialects of Spanish, such as Castelina (sp). Why not different dialects of Hutt? For that matter, think of the differences between the Queen's English and American English.

Why not, indeed. But why in the first place? The default assumption with the available evidence is that Greedo uses more or less the same version of the same language as his boss, which is what's stated in various materials. Who's to prove conclusively otherwise with a Rodian's half-dozen Huttese lines and another couple minutes of other Huttese dialogue? It's a possibility but not enough to make a stong theory in that direction or even definitely say it's the same dialect.

It certainly needs more evidence than Gil's "well, I don't think they sound the same". Well, I don't think Chewbacca's growls sound like the same language that other Wookiees use, so there. *Pbbbbbbt!*

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-30 01:19pm

LadyTevar wrote: IIRC, there are different dialects of Spanish, such as Castelina (sp). Why not different dialects of Hutt? For that matter, think of the differences between the Queen's English and American English.

Castellano. Other dialects (some call them languages) are leones, aragones, bable and canario. And of course, the Latin American usage of Spannish is completely different from that made in Spain.

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-09-30 03:39pm

As surely as the Huttese that human mouths can (and cannot) form, probably the Rhodians have similar restrictions. Greedo may well have spoken "Rhodian dialect Huttese" that worked for their tube-like schnozz-mouth whereas Anakin and other humans spoke flat-faced mammal "Human Huttese". And Watto spoke HUttese for peopel with beak-like blab holes.

Bear in mind that the Spanish spoken by a Mexican, Argentinian, a Cuban and a Spaniard will at times be very wierdly different from one another....

Same with all the dialects of Arabic. Even the social differecnes betwen American English and the Queen's English can cause problems. And if you factor in things like Ghetto-Rap speak, "Ebonics", another offshoot of English, you can see how this can run away quickly.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-09-30 04:09pm

Coyote wrote: Same with all the dialects of Arabic. Even the social differecnes betwen American English and the Queen's English can cause problems. And if you factor in things like Ghetto-Rap speak, "Ebonics", another offshoot of English, you can see how this can run away quickly.

That's a very good point as well. The dialect of Hutt spoken on Tattooine could be a 'ghetto-speak' or a Non-native Creole, instead of Jabba's 'pure' Huttese.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-30 09:20pm

Utsanomiko wrote:It certainly needs more evidence than Gil's "well, I don't think they sound the same". Well, I don't think Chewbacca's growls sound like the same language that other Wookiees use, so there. *Pbbbbbbt!*

It's not a matter of that. I don't remember the verbs or grammar structure being the same between Greedo and Jabba other than alot of things ending with an "oh-ah" sound. Which they should, assuming the same language.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2004-10-02 12:15am

It seems to me that depending on where a SW bio character is born depends on your ability to understand binary (no on mentiond the real name for droid)

On Tatooine people dont seem to understand it. take owen asking threpio "What i really need is a droid that can understand binary evaporators" (or something to that extenct). Luke who grew up on a moister farm cant seem to understand Artoo in ANH and ESB. After spending some time with him he tends to know something. Han who from an early age has been around the galaxy tenfold knows many cultures. Somewhere i heard that Han knows the 2 languages of wookie (dont know the names but the EU describes the traditional and than the technologial one) and Han can speak it but he makes a comment to Leia (EU) that its funny. Theres no reason for Han to not be speaking Huttese, he knows it and Jabba knows basic. Heres the reason each speak to each other in their own languages. You got 2 characters who are very egocentric and either one doesnt want the other to get an upperhand. If Han capitulates and speaks to Jabba in his tounge than Jabba has the upperhand for influencing Han and visa versa. And most languages like Ubese and Bochi are dialects of Huttese and Basic.

If droids are part of a persons live in a technolgical planet than you know some binary.