British to Store brand new Apaches for lack of pilots

[Sea Skimmer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2379501.stm

Challenger II, the L85/SA80, The Harrier early retirement, cuts in the escort fleet, the British armed forces are being slaughtered by there own government and inept procurement programs.


To quote someone on another board.

"I did some research on current UK projects and have found that the only ones that are really FUBAR'd are the ones that involve the following companies (please note not a exhaustive list)-

BAe Systems, Royal Ordinance, Marconi, Raytheon, Thales, Airbus, Westland, Boeing, Shorts, Lockheed and TRW.

Er...on reflection that is just about all of them. I think the new chemical toilet the British Army is buyng probably works OK but that may just be a rumour."

[The Dark]

BAe Systems, Royal Ordinance, Marconi, Raytheon, Thales, Airbus, Westland, Boeing, Shorts, Lockheed and TRW.

[rant] *Grumble* Well, he got all of the names right except Lockheed MARTIN. If you're going to call a merged company by a shortened name, use a shortened version that includes BOTH names![/rant]

Sorry about that, but my father's a LockMart employee, ex-Martin Marietta. Bit of a nit to me.

Turth be told, that's rather pathetic, considering (IIRC) their carriers can ONLY carry choppers and Harriers. Maybe they're trying to save money for JSFs?

[Sea Skimmer]

BAe Systems, Royal Ordinance, Marconi, Raytheon, Thales, Airbus, Westland, Boeing, Shorts, Lockheed and TRW.

[rant] *Grumble* Well, he got all of the names right except Lockheed MARTIN. If you're going to call a merged company by a shortened name, use a shortened version that includes BOTH names![/rant]

Sorry about that, but my father's a LockMart employee, ex-Martin Marietta. Bit of a nit to me.

Turth be told, that's rather pathetic, considering (IIRC) their carriers can ONLY carry choppers and Harriers. Maybe they're trying to save money for JSFs?

Joint Strike fighter is a wee bit newer then the invincible design..

The current carriers date to the 1970's. They where designed as cruisers, the UK Government deicide in 1966 not to fund new fleet carriers which would have been around 60K and had Phantoms and Bucks.

However the RN managed to get the designs warped to have full-length flight decks and be able to carry Harriers. As designed they would have also had Sea Wolf and Exocets, left over from the original cruiser design. These got cut for deck space and cost at the last minute.


Currently the RN is going to lose several escorts to pay for the new carriers and JSF. Or so the goverment claimes. The only problem is this is going to leave them with too few ships to meet all commitments and escort a fleet carrier. Its also be decide to cut the FA2 Air Defence harriers in 2006, leaving the RN with no real fighters, GR.9 can carry winders only, and only one or two modern air defence ships, though a couple more will soon show up, if they don't get canned as well. It looks like the planned 12 Type 45 buy will be cut to 9 or even 6.


Chances are this will then by used as justification by the same Moron politicians for canceling the carriers. The result will be a near impotent RN by 2010-15

[Raptor 597]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

[Knife]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

[Raptor 597]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Ahaha, what a miralce. Yeah, they spent some heavy cash in that R & D project, but sadly Britain is going Hippie like of th continent they hld their ground long, but oh well. Only thing is I hope they don't get get dumb go too past, and use the New Carriers as fireships.

[Knife]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Ahaha, what a miralce. Yeah, they spent some heavy cash in that R & D project, but sadly Britain is going Hippie like of th continent they hld their ground long, but oh well. Only thing is I hope they don't get get dumb go too past, and use the New Carriers as fireships.

Depends, does nonskid burn?

[Raptor 597]

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Ahaha, what a miralce. Yeah, they spent some heavy cash in that R & D project, but sadly Britain is going Hippie like of th continent they hld their ground long, but oh well. Only thing is I hope they don't get get dumb go too past, and use the New Carriers as fireships.

Depends, does nonskid burn?

Hmm, I dunno. Though they might think a closed, unexposed nuclear reactor could do harm, especially since the ship is sunk before a 100 kph imbound

[Sea Skimmer]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Thats stopped the British from canceling things that work since when? Back in the 60's the TSR.2 was so far along that tooling had been produced for production, and a few member of the government got together and ordered it destroyed, ensuring that procurement funds where cut form the budget. This killed what could have been the standard for low level interdiction aircraft for the next decade plus.

It seems that nine Type 45's is a fairly sure thing, but twelve is now unlikely at best. Six is sadly now a possibility.

The really sad thing is that the UK could have supported four 60,000 ton carriers through out the cold war and could easily afford three new ones now. Several cruisers as escorts would also be affordable and a fifth SSBN would which have doubled the deployed British deterrent force.

The problem is the low GDP percentage spent on defense, and today the level to which what is spent is raided to pay for peacekeeping contingencies rather then voting more money.

[Knife]

Ah, the peace dividen. Fucking stupid peacenik's.

[Knife]

Never thought I'd see the day when one of world's formerer stronges Navy die out. Damnit they dishonour Nelson. Blair and his fucking Hippie Buddies!

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Thats stopped the British from canceling things that work since when? Back in the 60's the TSR.2 was so far along that tooling had been produced for production, and a few member of the government got together and ordered it destroyed, ensuring that procurement funds where cut form the budget. This killed what could have been the standard for low level interdiction aircraft for the next decade plus.

It seems that nine Type 45's is a fairly sure thing, but twelve is now unlikely at best. Six is sadly now a possibility.

The really sad thing is that the UK could have supported four 60,000 ton carriers through out the cold war and could easily afford three new ones now. Several cruisers as escorts would also be affordable and a fifth SSBN would which have doubled the deployed British deterrent force.

The problem is the low GDP percentage spent on defense, and today the level to which what is spent is raided to pay for peacekeeping contingencies rather then voting more money.

Question: you're a walking military library, where do you get it all?

[Sea Skimmer]

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Ahaha, what a miralce. Yeah, they spent some heavy cash in that R & D project, but sadly Britain is going Hippie like of th continent they hld their ground long, but oh well. Only thing is I hope they don't get get dumb go too past, and use the New Carriers as fireships.

Depends, does nonskid burn?

Converting a carrier into a fireship is easy. Fill the JP tanks with AVGAS, and pipe it into the fire suppression system. Activate the system. Light a match, run really fucking fast for a helicopter.

[Sea Skimmer]

My god, I think we agree. Are they really going to buy only a couple of the type 45's. I though they spent a bundle in development?

Thats stopped the British from canceling things that work since when? Back in the 60's the TSR.2 was so far along that tooling had been produced for production, and a few member of the government got together and ordered it destroyed, ensuring that procurement funds where cut form the budget. This killed what could have been the standard for low level interdiction aircraft for the next decade plus.

It seems that nine Type 45's is a fairly sure thing, but twelve is now unlikely at best. Six is sadly now a possibility.

The really sad thing is that the UK could have supported four 60,000 ton carriers through out the cold war and could easily afford three new ones now. Several cruisers as escorts would also be affordable and a fifth SSBN would which have doubled the deployed British deterrent force.

The problem is the low GDP percentage spent on defense, and today the level to which what is spent is raided to pay for peacekeeping contingencies rather then voting more money.

Question: you're a walking military library, where do you get it all?

You know, people have actually said that to my face.

As for why it is the case. There are several reasons. What weight they hold is debatable, though only within my own head. I don’t suggest venturing in there, most of the fantasy worlds which I constantly map out in my head have very high body counts.


[1] Father's an ex Green Beret, ensuring a healthy Juvenal interest in firearms and military history from a young age.
[2] I'm an extremely fast reader, and my memory is very good. I'm the kind of person who reads "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Artillery" by Ian Hogg cover to cover in a sitting. This is probably the biggest reason.
[3] Warships1, this sites forums have provided a massive amount of information and insight for me
[4] The Ezboard History Politics and Current Affairs. Inhabited by several experts on history and the military, among them Stuart Slade. Once again despite being a mere posting board the amount of information and the quality has been very high.
[5] My massive pile of books and huge catch of web book marks. This ensures that even if I can't recall something off the top of my head, I can generally locate the information in a few minutes.

[Raptor 597]

Hey Sea Skimmer mine posting the Ezboard link?

[Knife]

Cool.

[Knife]

Hey Sea Skimmer mine posting the Ezboard link?

And the warships link too if you can.

[Sea Skimmer]

Hey Sea Skimmer mine posting the Ezboard link?

I'll PM it to you Currently its under membership by approval because of constant troll attacks, and I don’t wish to give them another opening. Apply for membership and PM me what your Ezboard name is and I'll see to it that you get posting privileges.

[Sea Skimmer]

Hey Sea Skimmer mine posting the Ezboard link?

And the warships link too if you can.

www.warships1.com is the site.

http://pub165.ezboard.com/bwarships1discussionboards the forum

I'll PM you the other link.

[Knife]

Thanks sea skimmer, I think I might be off the board for a day or so to read over the site.

[Sea Skimmer]

Thanks sea skimmer, I think I might be off the board for a day or so to read over the site.

Helpful hint. You can get the banner to go away by opening a new window to one of the pages, ships/weapons/tech ect.. It won't follow you around if you do that.

[Enlightenment]

Usenet has a naval forum populated by a lot of people who are involved in this kind of thing professionally.

sci.military.naval

Note: people who post SMN threads calling for the return of battleships will be regarded as the lowest form of idiot and flamed to a crisp. You have been warned.

[Sea Skimmer]

Usenet has a naval forum populated by a lot of people who are involved in this kind of thing professionally.

sci.military.naval

Note: people who post SMN threads calling for the return of battleships will be regarded as the lowest form of idiot and flamed to a crisp. You have been warned.

I visit that place from time to time. However to many of the threads get overloaded with crap to be worth reading. It is unfortunate as there are quite a few experts floating around on it.

Warships1 has a forum for bring back the battleships, though it now serves as a general Naval fire support board. Only in the last six months where the last of the major pro battleship supporters silenced. Though lesser ones keep popping up.