The Rebellion - terrorists or freedom fighters

[DoctorPhanan]

WHere did you hear about that plan to fire on the Ewoks when it was done?

The ROTJ novelization I belive.

I have a copy on my hard disk's ISB. Purely reading the quoted text (without reading the stuff the Rebels put on the top to "poison" the water), the proposed Doctrine is a plan to impose Order. It involves a strategy of pretending to be bigger than you are, and to build some symbols, but the ultimate objective is Order. It involves the use of Fear, but for people like Rebels and Criminals who do not Respect Authority, what means is there, from the Imperial POV, other than to use Fear. Some people are naturally Good. SOme people respect Authority, so they act Good. And some people have to be forcefully kept in line through Fear of the Consequences.

Control unruly portions of the Galaxy through a fear of force, rather than actual force itself.

I think that blowing up a planet definitely qualifies as a use of force. And Alderaan can hardly be considered an "unruly portion of the galaxy" Alderaan was also producing Pilots for the Empire so the destruction of Alderaan was much worse for the Empire than the Alliance.

It had nothing to do with the Ewoks and everything to do with Imperial SOP regarding Death Stars. I'm fairly certain I've read that it was solid fact on these boards, but even if not, it is fact that the first Death Star blew up its construction site as a test.

They didn't want to leave witnesses, and in any case, people in a penal colony are probably those of poor political reliability. Neither factor exists for some helpless, sub-sentient Ewoks. It is not called a Sanctuary Moon without reason.

The Ewoks have language and memory, so if the Rebels did end up going there, it is very possible that there could be stories of "White Devils and the new moon" or somthing to that effect.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The ROTJ novelization I belive.

Which page. The novelization is 181 pages long.

I think that blowing up a planet definitely qualifies as a use of force. And Alderaan can hardly be considered an "unruly portion of the galaxy" Alderaan was also producing Pilots for the Empire so the destruction of Alderaan was much worse for the Empire than the Alliance.

It is a fear inducing measure to maintain Order. It has individuals willing to serve the Empire. Remember Tycho was some kind of relative of a big company (I think he was the son of the biggest Holonet provider on Alderaan), but generally big companies value Order and thus would support the Empire like SoroSuub. However, it is just so loyal otherwise that the Princess can use government assets to betray the Empire.

Alderaan is small fry for the Empire. It is a Core World but its population is low. It'd be far more valuable in relative importance to the Alliance.

The Ewoks have language and memory, so if the Rebels did end up going there, it is very possible that there could be stories of "White Devils and the new moon" or somthing to that effect.

Nothing compared to the preciseness of a bunch of humans. Remember it is supposed to be very much a minority language.

[Rogue 9]

It is a fear inducing measure to maintain Order.

It was the mass murder of billions of people, the destruction of an entire unique biosphere, the loss of arts and an entire culture, all in one fell swoop. There is no way in all of Hell that it could be justified, particularly simply as an interrogation measure.

[Old Plympto]

It had nothing to do with the Ewoks and everything to do with Imperial SOP regarding Death Stars. I'm fairly certain I've read that it was solid fact on these boards, but even if not, it is fact that the first Death Star blew up its construction site as a test.

The planet was called Despayre as far as the EU is concerned. Might be rendered an obsolete fact and retconned if the Death Star construction is mentioned (or especially shown) to be elsewhere in ROTS.

[Lord of the Farce]

One thing that would be interesting to do would be to tally up all known casualties of the Empire's reign, and to compare it with the casualties of the RA/NR's reign.

The question then is whether the Emperor was aware of the coming of the Yuuzhan Vong...

[Rogue 9]

It had nothing to do with the Ewoks and everything to do with Imperial SOP regarding Death Stars. I'm fairly certain I've read that it was solid fact on these boards, but even if not, it is fact that the first Death Star blew up its construction site as a test.

The planet was called Despayre as far as the EU is concerned. Might be rendered an obsolete fact and retconned if the Death Star construction is mentioned (or especially shown) to be elsewhere in ROTS.

I'm well aware. Note that I mentioned the planet's name earlier in the thread.

[consequences]

It is a fear inducing measure to maintain Order.

It was the mass murder of billions of people,

That would prevent the massacre of trillions later on

the destruction of an entire unique biosphere,

That could have prevented the destruction of dozens of unique biospheres a couple decades down the road

the loss of arts and an entire culture,

Which could easily have been preserved in their entirety in the records of Imperial Centre.

all in one fell swoop. There is no way in all of Hell that it could be justified, particularly simply as an interrogation measure.

Number of casualties(civilian) resulting from the Galactic Civil War, as a result of the loss of the Emperor: Trillions. If we throw in the numbers that died during the YV invasion that wouldn't have with a strong government in place, the number gets cranked up even more. Then we throw in the destruction of Byss and all of the civilians it held, as a direct result of NR actions.
Number of unique biospheres known destroyed by direct action of the Emperor: four(Caamas, penal colony, Alderaan, Pinnacle). At least one of those has its uniqueness called into question by the ease with which its specific exports were replicated in secret by an Imperial officer of no great standing(Alderaani junk, General Derricote, Rogue Squadron.
Number of unique biospheres toasted as a result of NR incompetence: Hmm, Ithor, Barab, Yevetha, Carida, Kessel(amazing how no one mentions that the destruction of its moon by the DS prototype would also result in an Endor Holocaust type scenario), and whatever colony was obliterated near the start of the Centerpoint Crisis. Oh yeah, and Byss.

As a side note, with a population of two billion, more people probably died of natural causes on Coruscant each day than the DS killed on Alderaan.

[Iceberg]

It is a fear inducing measure to maintain Order.

It was the mass murder of billions of people,

That would prevent the massacre of trillions later on

Unsupported assertion.

the destruction of an entire unique biosphere,

That could have prevented the destruction of dozens of unique biospheres a couple decades down the road

Prove it.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

That would prevent the massacre of trillions later on

Of course it would, at least from Tarkin's point of view (I don't think he will be very enthusiastic when he hears about the Emperor's ultimate plan to use them all as suckers for life energy, but then no Imperial other than Palpatine and a few Dark Adepts would support that plan).

If planets are obedient, they won't have to be massacred. The Empire may be draconian in its punishment, but if there is nothing to punish, nobody dies.

[Iceberg]

That would prevent the massacre of trillions later on

Of course it would, at least from Tarkin's point of view (I don't think he will be very enthusiastic when he hears about the Emperor's ultimate plan to use them all as suckers for life energy, but then no Imperial other than Palpatine and a few Dark Adepts would support that plan).

If planets are obedient, they won't have to be massacred. The Empire may be draconian in its punishment, but if there is nothing to punish, nobody dies.

So when it comes down to it, the Empire equates obedience with goodness. I don't think one has to be a rocket scientist to see that this equation doesn't balance.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

So when it comes down to it, the Empire equates obedience with goodness. I don't think one has to be a rocket scientist to see that this equation doesn't balance.

To any government, obedience is good. Different governments may have different widths of Obedience Zone, but no government thinks that a person who's outside the obedience zone is good.

[Lord of the Farce]

It was the mass murder of billions of people,

That would prevent the massacre of trillions later on

Unsupported assertion.

Except that the Yuuzhan Vong's most experienced agent in the galaxy reported that the Empire would have stomped the Yuuzhan Vong invasion flat. And the fact that there had been quite serious Yuuzhan Vong recon in the galaxy pre-Clone Wars hints that Palpatine may have been aware of the coming threat.

the destruction of an entire unique biosphere,

That could have prevented the destruction of dozens of unique biospheres a couple decades down the road

Prove it.

Read above. Sometimes, the consequences of inaction is worst than any action.

[Kurgan]

I'd say (and yes I realize the whole debate of "terrorists vs. freedom fighters" is rhetorically tied to what side of a conflict you're on/allied with, etc) that since the Rebels (at least from all I know from the movies) don't target civilians, but engage the military of the Empire, they would be simply insurgents and guerrillas.

It's a Civil War, as the Rebels are Imperial Subjects, rebelling against the authority of the Empire.

It is yet to be seen whether the Empire actually illegally siezes power, or if it is simply an evolution (I'm guessing it is, based on what we've seen so far) from the Old Republic. Then again, one could question the ethical nature of mind controlling a third of the Senate in order to give yourself more power, orchestrating assasinations and starting wars (playing both sides against each other) in order to further your own power, corrupting people to your ends, etc.

Judging by the atrocities commited by the Empire against its own citizens, I'd say if anyone is the "terrorist group" in the Galactic Civil war, that (the Imperial Government/Military, which is one and the same) is it.

About the only argument I can think of against this is that the New Republic (which grew out of the Alliance once the Empire was defeated) supposedly committed a genocidal act against the Yuzanh Vong (sp?) in some of the later NJO book(s). Of course I've also heard that the YV were attempting to carry out their own genocidal war, so perhaps they argued it was in self defense. Not having read those books I can't really say.

BUT, that said, since the issue is the Galactic Civil War and the Rebel Alliance, I'd say no, from what we know, not terrorists, but rather freedom fighters.

And while some will argue "well the Empire brought order and rule of law" etc, but I'd simply say the cure was worse than the disease. The Republic may have been corrupt, but Palpatine pushed it in that direction to destroy it, turn it into his own tin-pot dream and then made the state a greater threat to the citizenry than any enemy (well, except maybe the YV, but that was almost 20 years down the pipe by authors other than Lucas).

Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe in another 20 years we'll find out that the YV taking over the galaxy would have actually been a good thing, and thus the New Republic was evil to defeat them, etc.

This whole debate really hinges on the whole Machiavellian theory of politics and power. Do you go with the Atreides style of rule (by virtue and benevolence) or by the Harkkonen model (threats and malevolence)?

If the goals are the same (to stay in power), ethically speaking one should take the least life destructive and morally repugnant route. Finally someone will argue that morality doesn't exist (just subjective opinions that have no meaning outside an individuals mind) in which case there's no moral imperative for a government to exist either, and it's just survival of the strong/lucky.

Edit: As far as dealing with Shielded unruly planets, the Empire has the resources for a "Siege" and they can blockade a planet if necessary, quite easily. Sterilizing or blowing up a planet is excessive, especially in Alderaan's case. I think the celebrations shown on at the end of ROTJ show that at least a few planets had popular support for the Rebellion, or at the very least were danged glad that the Empire had fallen.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The thing is, if the main body of the Rebellion does nothing to prevent such cells from popping up, and in fact support them kind of makes it hard for them to (honestly) condemn the Empire from having it's own "radicals" from doing similar.

The Empire's brilliance is for making those radicals official policy while using the Emperor's seculsion and reclusive behavior to implicitly disassociate Coruscant and the Empire as an institution (and Palpatine as an individual by extention) from the brutal and immoral policies that the Empire pursued. As gone into detail in Publius' essay De Vitas de Civitum Imperii found on Nathan_F's website, many citizens loathed the Empire and its policies; but that anger and displeasure was de-emphasized on the Empire: "it is the Moffs 'fault," or "it is the bureaucrats' fault," etc.

[Ender]

The Rebel Alliance may or may not have been terrorists. It was run by a bunch of idiotic senators pissy about losing their own power and using it as a stepping stone to return to power (read the AOTC novel, paying attention to Padme, consider the fact that she is one of the good senators, and then ask yourself how the fuck restoring the old republic with people like her as the ideal leader could possibly be a good thing) but they generally tried to play it safe WRT civillians.

But not every rebel was a member of the Alliance. There were a number of other groups fighting the empire just to keep them out of their sectors, just to pursue civil wars that were forcibly stopped, criminals attacking the emnpire to distract them from their other activities, etc. And like was said on the first page, not all of them were nice people. And they would definately be terrorists.

[Ender]

The thing is, if the main body of the Rebellion does nothing to prevent such cells from popping up, and in fact support them kind of makes it hard for them to (honestly) condemn the Empire from having it's own "radicals" from doing similar.

The Empire's brilliance is for making those radicals official policy while using the Emperor's seculsion and reclusive behavior to implicitly disassociate Coruscant and the Empire as an institution (and Palpatine as an individual by extention) from the brutal and immoral policies that the Empire pursued. As gone into detail in Publius' essay De Vitas de Civitum Imperii found on Nathan_F's website, many citizens loathed the Empire and its policies; but that anger and displeasure was de-emphasized on the Empire: "it is the Moffs 'fault," or "it is the bureaucrats' fault," etc.

Consider also the fact that we've heard of what, less then 100 atrocities, and they've been committed by about a dozen people. Most civillians would be complaining about the moffs about the same way half the country complained about Clinton and now the other half is complaining about Bush. Mostly, Imperial life was pretty good.

[Kurgan]

I guess, now that I think about it, we really need to see Episode III to see how (if it's shown) the beginnings of the Rebellion.

Because if we go by the Opening Crawl of ANH, it sure sounds like the Death Star is the catalyst for the Rebellion itself.

The Rebels learn that the Death Star is being built, they fight the Imperials and win a battle. They escape with the stolen plans for the Death Star in the hope of finding a weakness (but of course the Empire's terror weapon is already operational and prowling the galaxy). Next the Empire sets to wiping out the Rebels, and lo and behold they build ANOTHER terror weapon, even bigger than the first one.

(and that's not counting all the EU wankery super weapons that they also had lying around like so many old cars up on blocks in some Jeff Foxworthy stereotype redneck's lawn)

Of course, I am not so sure the Rebellion will actually be shown in the new movie, because that would be 20 or so years without a victory (unless they just laid low for that long). I once wondered if the Galactic Civil War was just an extension of the Clone Wars (like WWI lead into WWII). How this all plays out would really help this discussion along.

Anyway, my point is, it seems the Empire's apologists are arguing that the Empire needed to resort to terror to PREVENT or STOP the actions of rebels. Rather, it seems that the actions of the Empire directly caused and fueled the Rebellion itself. And if the Empire can be given a pass for collateral damage it causes in its bid for "order" then surely the Rebels can as well, even if it makes them hypocrites for not being pure as they wish to be. Still, it would seem the burden of responsibility is on the shoulders of the Empire (and specifically Palpatine) for the mess and the losses incured on both sides.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Consider also the fact that we've heard of what, less then 100 atrocities, and they've been committed by about a dozen people. Most civillians would be complaining about the moffs about the same way half the country complained about Clinton and now the other half is complaining about Bush. Mostly, Imperial life was pretty good.

That seems to be disingenuous; many of the maximalists are also Imperial apologists. Yet the maximalist argument is often butressed with the fact that the EU is considered to be the "tip of the iceburg" and frequently biased toward the local and small. To complain that we only hear of 100 atrocities seems inappropriate. Not to mention it comes very close to treating absence of evidence as evidence of absence.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Rebel Alliance may or may not have been terrorists. It was run by a bunch of idiotic senators pissy about losing their own power and using it as a stepping stone to return to power (read the AOTC novel, paying attention to Padme, consider the fact that she is one of the good senators, and then ask yourself how the fuck restoring the old republic with people like her as the ideal leader could possibly be a good thing)

Mon Mothma was incomptent; Leia only marginally less so.

[sigh] Why did bel Iblis have to leave the Rebellion?

But not every rebel was a member of the Alliance. There were a number of other groups fighting the empire just to keep them out of their sectors, just to pursue civil wars that were forcibly stopped,

Lando talks about how much of the Imperial fleet was keeping down brush wars and little rivalries all the time in The Hand of Thrawn duology.

[Kurgan]

We could treat the canon sources as a "sampling" and fair example of how the two entities operate (Empire and Rebellion) couldn't we?

I mean it's not reasonable to say that we should assume that the Empire is basically good and the Rebels basically evil either (based on the assumption that governments are basically good and rebellions basically bad, although that does fit within a certain worldview). Or?

I suppose Lucas's repeated claims that the Empire is evil don't fall under SOD. ; )

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Mon Mothma was incomptent; Leia only marginally less so.

Give Mon Mothma a bit of credit. Even if she was a total dolt, she did manage to hold together a team, which with the Force constantly bribing reality and exercising Campaign Meditation to dumb down all the Imperials, win over the Empire.

[sigh] Why did bel Iblis have to leave the Rebellion?

Maybe you already answered your own question.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

It is yet to be seen whether the Empire actually illegally siezes power, or if it is simply an evolution (I'm guessing it is, based on what we've seen so far) from the Old Republic. Then again, one could question the ethical nature of mind controlling a third of the Senate in order to give yourself more power, orchestrating assasinations and starting wars (playing both sides against each other) in order to further your own power, corrupting people to your ends, etc.

Sure it was mind controlling? I have no doubt Palpatine tapped people a bit - hell, just by talking to them he might have tapped them whether he even wants to or not.

Judging by the atrocities commited by the Empire against its own citizens, I'd say if anyone is the "terrorist group" in the Galactic Civil war, that (the Imperial Government/Military, which is one and the same) is it.

Remember, however, that all your views about those so called atrocities is from the Rebels. They control virtually all of what history leaked out.

Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe in another 20 years we'll find out that the YV taking over the galaxy would have actually been a good thing, and thus the New Republic was evil to defeat them, etc.

It is hard to imagine how defeating an enemy that is intent on exterminating you is a bad thing for your people.

This whole debate really hinges on the whole Machiavellian theory of politics and power. Do you go with the Atreides style of rule (by virtue and benevolence) or by the Harkkonen model (threats and malevolence)?

Really, the choice between the NR and the Empire is one between extremely harsh order and benevolent incompetence, as the Yuuzhan Vong incident proves so glaringly.

Rule #1 before launching a 300 trillion casualty Galactic Civil War: Make sure that your ideas for ruling the galaxy will actually be an improvement. Or else you just killed 300 trillion people for nothing, and may have doomed a similar amount in the future, because the government would have to be changed again, even if we don't count how your incompetent governmental structure might be a perfect lure for some enemy power.

Edit: As far as dealing with Shielded unruly planets, the Empire has the resources for a "Siege" and they can blockade a planet if necessary, quite easily. Sterilizing or blowing up a planet is excessive, especially in Alderaan's case. I think the celebrations shown on at the end of ROTJ show that at least a few planets had popular support for the Rebellion, or at the very least were danged glad that the Empire had fallen.

Sieges are ineffective if the planet is self sufficient. Their ability to defy the Empire under the shield alone might inspire other attempts. Besides, if the Alderaanians refused to give (since the Empire is not about to give, I think everyone agrees on that) and they weren't self sufficient in essentials like food, they would starve and die off rather unpleasantly. At least now, they were annihilated in a painless eyeblink.

Purely using Action Analysis, Even the Emperor's last order to blow up Endor could be seen in a positive light. With the shield down, fighters can infiltrate his half completed station, so he might be already planning on losing it. When the Death Star blows up, it will cost a Holocaust on Endor. But if he 'ruthlessly' blows up Endor, it is a very quick and merciful death for the Ewoks (surely far better than starving in nuclear winter) and the frag pattern may well be able to engulf the Rebel fleet. You can really call it his last noble act as an Emperor, kind of, anyway.

Anyway, my point is, it seems the Empire's apologists are arguing that the Empire needed to resort to terror to PREVENT or STOP the actions of rebels.

Terror is the only way to stop people that won't Respect Authority or are naturally law-abiding.

Rather, it seems that the actions of the Empire directly caused and fueled the Rebellion itself.

Of course they had to go and try to destroy the Death Star. How many people would continue to support a Rebellion movement if the penalty for collaboration increased to "Destruction of your Entire Planet"? This is just about survival, and I ain't giving points to Rebels who have chosen to be Traitors to the current government choosing to fight fiercely against the tool meant to spell their doom.

That seems to be disingenuous; many of the maximalists are also Imperial apologists. Yet the maximalist argument is often butressed with the fact that the EU is considered to be the "tip of the iceburg" and frequently biased toward the local and small. To complain that we only hear of 100 atrocities seems inappropriate. Not to mention it comes very close to treating absence of evidence as evidence of absence.

Yes, the EU is a tip of an iceberg, but a better analogy is a very tiny sample of the population, with the samples picked in a biased manner.

Realistically, morality will most likely be in a Bell Curve. There are a few goons that would do atrocities, and a few saints and everyone else. Since they showed us saints for the NR and goons for the Imperials, one suspects they are running out of NR saints to show us (and certainly they had no saints left by NJO) and running out of Imperial goons.

Remember the NR isn't really that great. Which is probably why they have to keep emphasizing the Imperials are goons. Let one whiff of doubt leak in and ...

(Take the incident at the time of Solo Command. The book tries to emphasize on how Zsinj is such a goon for sending these brainwashed saboteurs in to split the New Republic. The cold truth is, however, that it shows how thin the facade of "all species are equal" is in the New Republic. If America was the New Republic, after 9/11, they would have banned Muslims and Islam followers from all their military units. Zsinj only recognized this fact and tried to prove it to the world (thus, of course, coincidentally more people to join him), only to be thwarted by the New Republic, who of course warps the history so as to try and push all the blame to Zsinj).

[PainRack]

A tad off topic, I know, but the question is

Was the New Republic government doomed from the start? Asserting that the government was incompetent and her political failures led to the massive disaster of the YV invasion is one thing, however, was that inherent in the Republician government or was it a result of the civil war, one that disrupted governing insitutions and resources etc etc etc?

I would argue that it was the later. The New Republic was a dichotomy of policies. One that decentralised power as per the Thrawn duology, yet one that placed immaculate emphasis on core political positions centred around the economics of the Core worlds. Central mico-managament of every little political detail, while decentralising the means of executing them.

However, it will seem that the failure to form a more cohesive government lies more in the fact that Coruscant, and the New Republic government, was centrally weak, and this failure should lie directly as the result of the Galactic Civil war, as opposed to the inherent unworkability of the government. If the NR had been able to develop an effective burcreaucy in Coruscant, along with the central political status that comes from it, non-affliated militaries, many of the issues that arose during the YV invasion would not had mattered.

[Vympel]

Which page. The novelization is 181 pages long.

Page 148 of the original print:

The Emperor hissed. "Your fleet is lost- and your friends on the Endor Moon will not survive ..." He pushed a comlink button on the arm of his throne and spoke into it with relish. "Commander Jerjerrod, should the Rebels manage to blow up the shield generator, you will turn this battle station onto the Endor Moon and destroy it."

"Yes, Your Highness," came the voice over the receiver, "but we have several battalions stationed on-"

"You will destroy it!" the Emperor's whisper was more final than any sceam.

"Yes, Your Highness."

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Was the New Republic government doomed from the start? Asserting that the government was incompetent and her political failures led to the massive disaster of the YV invasion is one thing, however, was that inherent in the Republician government or was it a result of the civil war, one that disrupted governing insitutions and resources etc etc etc?

Certainly the instituion damage was a factor (though that was greatly mitigated by the fact many of the old Imp bureaucrats agreed to stay on to run the nation).

And certain some form of Republic government could have worked - 25000 years of Old Republic is a strong clue.

But with the structure they set up and the caliber of people they are putting in the posts, the NR is basically a paper structure in the wind. If you do nothing to stress it, it'd hold. Put it up against mere Yevethans and it is at its very limit. Put it against the Vong (remember, a huge percentage of Vong wound up fitting onto one planet, which gives real limits on their population and real power) shattered the illusion it is a workable government.

DFR provides good clues as to what a joke the NR government is. It starts with Borski managing to get Ackbar relieved, and he offers to "take charge of the Supreme Command". Really. Why isn't someone already in that position until Ackbar is either cleared or convicted? Borski is plainly unqualified to be Supreme Commander, and in a working government, he cannot possibly fill that role, but he seems to think he can.

Chapter 6 is even more of a joke. We are talking about one convoy of such low importance it was only guarded by one Bulk Cruiser, a NR Wing of fighters and a single frigate. Thrawn seems to think Ackbar would normally have had a role in planning this tiny, insignificant, routine operation. Assuming he's right, Ackbar plain doesn't have a proper structure under him. Such a small thing should never even get to his eyes, now that he's the Supreme Commander of Military Forces over 3/4ths of the Galaxy.

The entire thing near the end is a scandal. Wedge Antilles was clearly insubordinate and should have at least faced a Board of Inquiry on his return. As a superior officer, Virgilio does have the right to order Wedge to return on his authority as senior military commander of the scene, and Wedge was insubordinate to have refused.

Captain Virgilio, his crew, and his X-Wing squadrons are ridiculously unreliable. The only issue here is that Fey'lya claims that his authority came from Mon Mothma herself, which it seems to be. Borsk's orders, while cruel sounding and clearly self-centered, were not blatantly wrong in any way - the Escort Frigate does have little chance against the Star Destroyer once it gets into range of its main gunnery, so running while they can is clearly a sensible idea.

So how the fuck can Virgilio change his mind over following orders just because Karrde said something about Fey'lya's motives. Sure, Borsk was a dolt for admitting it right then and there, but any soldier should have known what they are really worth to those fucking politicians up there - pawns. It is cruel, but it is the truth, and honestly, if people high up don't think like that, they would not be able to make some hard decisions that require making.

If Fey'lya was in charge under the orders of Chief of State Mon Mothma, he must be obeyed until he makes a clearly incompetent or immoral order. His is neither.

If this kind of lack of discipline, order and structure in the military (the place that should have the most of all three) is a sign, the NR never had a chance.