Votergasm

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-09-30 12:42am

Listening to Rush on the radio (my new job entails a lot of long-distance driving), came across a website that promises sex for votes. Votergasm.org has been flooded by "dittoheads" but I did get on tonight. Interesting concept that they tout...

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-30 01:02am

Yeah, heard this as well. No instead of selling sex for money, we are selling it for votes. Awesome.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-09-30 01:06am

Talon Karrde wrote:Yeah, heard this as well. No instead of selling sex for money, we are selling it for votes. Awesome.

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of consenting adults fucking their brains out regardless of whether you approve!

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-30 01:11pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Yeah, heard this as well. No instead of selling sex for money, we are selling it for votes. Awesome.
Hear that? That's the sound of millions of consenting adults fucking their brains out regardless of whether you approve!

Your point being what exactly?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-09-30 02:29pm

Talon Karrde wrote:Your point being what exactly?

As if you had one? You came knuckle-dragging out of your cave as usual, spouting off fundie "woe is the world" bullshit, as usual. Why should I or anyone else care if people are selling sex for money, votes or skittles? If YOU had a point, feel free to post it.

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 02:42pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Your point being what exactly?
As if you had one? You came knuckle-dragging out of your cave as usual, spouting off fundie "woe is the world" bullshit, as usual. Why should I or anyone else care if people are selling sex for money, votes or skittles? If YOU had a point, feel free to post it.

It cheapens voting. Also sex.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-09-30 02:58pm

Uther wrote:It cheapens voting. Also sex.

How? Or rather, so what?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-30 03:09pm

And people wonder why STDs are growing to pandemic proportions.

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 03:15pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:
Uther wrote:It cheapens voting. Also sex.
How? Or rather, so what?

Well democracy is premised on the idea that the electorate votes, at least to some degree, based upon a rational decision: IE, who they think will best execute the duties of the office. Now, I'm sure we can all bandy about examples of stupid things the elecorate has done, but the point is that selling one's vote for sex (which may not even be what's going on here but is still an interesting quesiton to ponder) is a slap in the face of what democracy is (or at least should be) about.

As to sex, well, that's a fuzzier issue in my mind, but it seems to me that treating such a potentially intimate and dare I say it? profound act with such disregard is regretable. I'm not saying it's immoral, mind, just regretable.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-30 06:46pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:
Uther wrote:It cheapens voting. Also sex.
How? Or rather, so what?

And here in lies the problem. You don't care about anything that deals with the degrading a certain institution such as voting, or a certain act such as sex. Sure, maybe it's my "Fundamentalist" background speaking, but there is a definate difference in thought process behind why you have no problem with it, where as I think it's not only foolish but silly.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-30 06:56pm

Uther wrote:Well democracy is premised on the idea that the electorate votes, at least to some degree, based upon a rational decision: IE, who they think will best execute the duties of the office. Now, I'm sure we can all bandy about examples of stupid things the elecorate has done, but the point is that selling one's vote for sex (which may not even be what's going on here but is still an interesting quesiton to ponder) is a slap in the face of what democracy is (or at least should be) about.

That would be a really good point if the entire voting process had not already been grossly debased by the fact that rational debate has no place in it, and it has become glorified vaudeville. Just look at the fact that an actual debate between the two candidates is almost an afterthought in this election campaign, and is so tightly regulated (32 fucking pages of rules) that it's almost guaranteed to be totally inconsequential.

Is "sex for votes" any more debased than "try to buy more and nastier attack ads than the other guy with your huge war chest?" I don't see how.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-09-30 07:15pm

"Charades usually are humorous."

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-30 07:18pm

That would be a really good point if the entire voting process had not already been grossly debased by the fact that rational debate has no place in it, and it has become glorified vaudeville. Just look at the fact that an actual debate between the two candidates is almost an afterthought in this election campaign, and is so tightly regulated (32 fucking pages of rules) that it's almost guaranteed to be totally inconsequential.

Is "sex for votes" any more debased than "try to buy more and nastier attack ads than the other guy with your huge war chest?" I don't see how.

So shouldn't we be trying to climb up rather than just see how much deeper we can go?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-30 10:48pm

Uther wrote:It cheapens voting. Also sex.

Cheaper than it already is? I think this is a lateral move for politics.

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 10:59pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Uther wrote:Well democracy is premised on the idea that the electorate votes, at least to some degree, based upon a rational decision: IE, who they think will best execute the duties of the office. Now, I'm sure we can all bandy about examples of stupid things the elecorate has done, but the point is that selling one's vote for sex (which may not even be what's going on here but is still an interesting quesiton to ponder) is a slap in the face of what democracy is (or at least should be) about.
That would be a really good point if the entire voting process had not already been grossly debased by the fact that rational debate has no place in it, and it has become glorified vaudeville. Just look at the fact that an actual debate between the two candidates is almost an afterthought in this election campaign, and is so tightly regulated (32 fucking pages of rules) that it's almost guaranteed to be totally inconsequential.

Is "sex for votes" any more debased than "try to buy more and nastier attack ads than the other guy with your huge war chest?" I don't see how.

Yeah ok you're a cynic (or a realist?!) Either way, I think you go too far. Especially since, I suspect, you're focusing solely on American politics, which, although I love it dearly, is sometimes characterized by a lot of smoke and mirrors. Is European debate generally more civil/substantative? Maybe, I honestly don't know. Regardless, America has always been very good at advertising, packaging, and making the "sell." Unfortunately, this often means we're vulnerable to charges that our politics is more glitz and glamour than nuts and bolts. And while I think often times these charges have legitimacy, it's not quite time yet to throw up our hands and say, "What the hell! Our politics is so degraded that selling your vote for sex isn't any worse than swift boat hoaring!"

Just look at tonight's debate. Yes, they're probably too regimented and formalized. But there is still a substantial exchange of ideas, as well as insight into the candidates' rhetorical and debating abilities. No, they're not the Lincoln-Douglas debates. On the other hand, politics has always been dirty. I mean, Jefferson was getting smeared with charges of being a Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey Lover BACK IN THE DAY! John Q Adams accused Jackson of being an adulterer (COMPLETELY untrue charges, incidentally). So while this campaign has been one of the nastier ones we've had in a while, I'm afraid this is how democracy has pretty much always worked. It's not like people are substantially dumber now than they were 200 years ago.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-09-30 11:35pm

Okay, so who here is signing the pledge on Votergasm?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-30 11:37pm

Uther wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Uther wrote:Well democracy is premised on the idea that the electorate votes, at least to some degree, based upon a rational decision: IE, who they think will best execute the duties of the office. Now, I'm sure we can all bandy about examples of stupid things the elecorate has done, but the point is that selling one's vote for sex (which may not even be what's going on here but is still an interesting quesiton to ponder) is a slap in the face of what democracy is (or at least should be) about.
That would be a really good point if the entire voting process had not already been grossly debased by the fact that rational debate has no place in it, and it has become glorified vaudeville. Just look at the fact that an actual debate between the two candidates is almost an afterthought in this election campaign, and is so tightly regulated (32 fucking pages of rules) that it's almost guaranteed to be totally inconsequential.

Is "sex for votes" any more debased than "try to buy more and nastier attack ads than the other guy with your huge war chest?" I don't see how.
Yeah ok you're a cynic (or a realist?!) Either way, I think you go too far. Especially since, I suspect, you're focusing solely on American politics, which, although I love it dearly, is sometimes characterized by a lot of smoke and mirrors.

Problem: He's Canadian. Why would he be focused solely on American politics?

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 11:39pm

I believe the legendary 32 pages are specifically from an American debate, and this board focuses very heavily on American politics, which are characterized by "huge war chest(s)" and nasty attack ads. Of course, Canadian politics could be the same way, in which case my assumption is cheerfully withdrawn.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-10-01 12:12am

Talon Karrde wrote:And here in lies the problem. You don't care about anything that deals with the degrading a certain institution such as voting, or a certain act such as sex. Sure, maybe it's my "Fundamentalist" background speaking, but there is a definate difference in thought process behind why you have no problem with it, where as I think it's not only foolish but silly.

Of course it's foolish and silly, and a case can be made that it's degrading to the already grossly degraded voting process. Bear in mind however, Mr. Karrde, that there is a difference between "foolish and silly" and wrong. You were implying that there is something fundamentally wrong with "selling" sex. I pointed out that consenting adults can do with their sex as they please.

If you think that this shouldn't be the case, feel free to explain why. Or else, one stupid assertion begets another, naturally.