DARK TOWER 7 (spoilers, ayuh)

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-29 07:47pm

Okay, I have just finished it and need to talk about it. But First...

HOLY
FUCKUING
SHIT!

spoilers below..

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Good story. The ending was good--not perfect but really it did fit. I had a bit of trouble reading through the tears...

I was kind of surprised how he handled Randall Flagg and the Crimson King. They kind of lost most of their powers that made them so fearsome in other books. In the parlance of this site, Flagg died like a bitch. I really expected him to amount to something better. But it still felt like the same kind of unpredictable storytelling style that really worked in books 1-3 and to a lesser extent 5 and 6.

I miss the characters already.

Also, I suppose Thomas and Peter from Eyes of the Dragon never got their confrontation with Flagg. Or else they did and he killed them both.

The book affected me more than any other book I've read, including Where the Red Fern Grows, etc..
I think i'll read the DT series from start to finish again soon.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-30 06:16pm

Does NOBODY want to talk about it?

I thought this was the best fantasy series I've ever read and I was hoping to hear from some other people what they thought about it...

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-09-30 06:21pm

what other books should be read in order to get a good feel for 5, 6 and 7, just out of curiosity? since it seems that king's works crossover quite a bit in the dark tower series.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-30 06:41pm

Well, i haven't completed DT VII myself, but the ones marked as DT-related in its bibliograpy are

Salem's Lot
The Stand
The Talisman
It
The Eye Of The Dragon
Insomnia
Rose Madder
Desperation
Black House
From A Buick 8
The Regulators
Skeleton Crew
Hearts In Atlantis
Everything's Eventual

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-30 06:52pm

Batman wrote:Well, i haven't completed DT VII myself, but the ones marked as DT-related in its bibliograpy are

Salem's Lot
The Stand
The Talisman
It
The Eye Of The Dragon
Insomnia
Rose Madder
Desperation
Black House
From A Buick 8
The Regulators
Skeleton Crew
Hearts In Atlantis
Everything's Eventual

I think that you can skip most of those. The only ones you really need are:
Insomnia
Hearts in Atlantis
Salem's Lot

I highly recommend The Eyes of the Dragon and The Stand (less highly, IMHO) if you are a Randall Flagg fan and want to know more about him.

I highly recommend It and Desperation for more of an idea of ka and the Turtle and the kinds of things lurking in the darkness between universes.

Black House and Everything's Eventual are both good and tie directly into the DT story, but aren't essential.

The rest of the stuff on the list really isn't connected except ny a cameo or use of some Mid-World language or imagery.

Oh, and The Talisman should NOT be part of the Dark Tower series. It really doesn't fit and it's not much fun to read.

Oh, and thanks for responding! Thankee sais!

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-30 07:08pm

Okay, just to annoy Bob, and being contrary because i happen to be the Batman:

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: I highly recommend The Eyes of the Dragon and The Stand (less highly, IMHO) if you are a Randall Flagg fan and want to know more about him.

The Stand, yes. Eye Of The Dragon, no. While King might later have incorporated in the Tower Multiverse its' obscure to say the least.

I highly recommend It and Desperation for more of an idea of ka and the Turtle and the kinds of things lurking in the darkness between universes.

IMHO, neitherprovide any useful information WRT the Dark Tower story is concerned. Both are a darned good read, mind you (unless you like happy ends but then if you do you're not a King fan)

Black House and Everything's Eventual are both good and tie directly into the DT story, but aren't essential.

No opinion on Everything's Eventual on account on never having read it but 'Black House' presensts some vital info on Breakers and how/where they come from, and some of the limits of the Crimson King's minoions power.

Oh, and The Talisman should NOT be part of the Dark Tower series. It really doesn't fit and it's not much fun to read.

I couldn't disagree more. THIS was the one book that actually got the 'Dark Tower' series started.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-30 07:27pm

I haven't read Eyes of the Dragon or Talisman for more than 10 or 12 years, so I'm going on my memory.
I meant that I recommend EotDragon for fans of Flagg because he is the main villain in it and gets to use some of his magic, like being "dim," which I find to be one of the more awesome magical powers ever. The Talisman, I just remember the retarded (mentally I mean. He was a cool character) werewolf and the Sunlight Gardener and being bored to tears about halfway through the book. I don't even remember how it ends.

About It and Desperation, I said that I recommend them, but they aren't necessary. I thought that they were a lot of fun, and while they don't mention anything directly having to do with the Dark Tower the Turtle and the concept of ka (without being called ka) show up in It and Tak from Desperation comes from the land of the unformed. Plus Desperation has a cruel "God" who uses ka (doesn't call it ka) to have the protagonists save the day against the rival god. Good stuff all around.

Everything's eventual contains the stories "Little sisters of eluria" (about Roland) and "Everything's eventual," which introduces us to a character who shows up in book 7. The material in Black House is pretty vital--if you don't read Insomnia and Hearts in Atlantis which covers the same stuff in different ways. I was trying to reduce his required reading load and figured that once he knew about the CK and the Breakers he really could skip black house and get to the meat of the story. Not that I didn't like Black House--it was fun--but it is a very long read.

Have you ever noticed that almost all of King's psychically gifted characters are retarded or idiot savants? It seems to me that if Roland had stopped off at a NY public school and grabbed about 20 Special Ed kids then took them to a used bookstore or antiques shop he could have owned the entire multiverse.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-10-05 02:33pm

So what did everyone think of the ending? Were you satisfied or pissed off?

Who would you want to see cast in a DT movie if it was ever made?

Cthulhu-chan · Post by **Cthulhu-chan** » 2004-10-06 06:50am

I was very satisfied with the ending. I couldn't imagine a better way to have done it, given all the buildup. I mean, honestly, King damn near wrote himself into a corner. I'm sure many will be disapointed, but considering how most of King's books end, they should be happy that things end as well as they do.

Heh, it's not like he didn't warn you...

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-10-06 05:09pm

I liked it, too. It felt very bittersweet and I miss the characters tremendously. I got quite teary eyed while reading certain sections and after I was done with the book I just had to take an hour to gather myself emotionally. That's a sign of a great book.

My only real disappointments were with Randall Flagg and the Crimson King. They were seriously powered down for the last book.

I mean, Flagg used to be this Ageless Stranger, a demonic guy who walks wherever and whenever he pleases, survives being shot through the eye and a nuclear blast (EotD, The Stand), has telepathy and freaky powers and is older than shit. But he died like a chump. Besides the fact that book 1 says that Roland's ka is to slay him, I don't have a problem with Mordred killing Flagg--I just wanted more emphasis and drama. I wanted an epic struggle between the multiverse's darkest forces. Oh well.

And the Crimson King was supposed to be the baddest of the bad. Remember Insomnia where the CK disses It? Well It would've done a damn sight better at the Dark Tower. In fact, wasn't the CK a shapechanging magician and the originator of all glammers? Where was his army of demons? Where was his high-caliber machine gun?

The deaths in the Ka-Tet were done well, though. Really well. And they were touching and sad and horrific all at the same time. I felt like real people I knew were dying.

Also, I want a billy bumbler friend of my own!