Official Presidential Debate Reaction Thread

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-09-30 10:54pm

I'll conceed that Kerry won the public relations victory. He looked and sounded better and more confident on stage. Bush's failure to make new comments and his reliance on calling Kerry a flip-flopper turned out very badly.

On the other hand, Kerry provided nothing truly inspiring for his platform. Bush is correct on North Korea: they will walk away from bilateral discussions, or end up taking advantage of the United States. He also sounded like an idiot proposing to focus on proliferation issues rather than terrorism; Bush stole that pretty effectively by tacking on the "in the hands of the terrorists."

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-30 10:54pm

Joe wrote:Tommy Franks on CNN: bin Laden is not in Afghanistan, as Kerry said he was.

If Bush had been a little more informed he could have slammed Kerry with this.

Sen. Kerry didn't say bin Laden IS in Afghanistan now, he said bin Laden WAS in Afghanistan during Operation: Enduring Freedom.

Also, I give Sen. Kerry props for having a new haircut that makes him look considerably better. He looked more presidential tonight than George Bush, who looked like, to be blunt, a greasy little weasel.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-09-30 10:57pm

I missed all but the last 10-15 minutes of the debate. I caught the tail end on radio. From what I heard Bush sounded really bad as usually, but Kerry made a few mistakes too. Overall, though Kerry sounded better. Bush is simply a poor public speaker.

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 11:03pm

Knife wrote:
I really am not well informed enough to know who's right about North Korea (I'm deeply suspicious that Bush's position is basically "do nothing" while Kerry is at least advocating trying something new).
I think that bit will actually hurt Kerry.

He's spent alot of time talking about how we need to confer with our allies, then when you switch to Korea, he wants to do Bilateral disscussions (just NK and US).

Hmm, good point. Again, I'm too well versed in the nuances of the situation. Will opening bilateral talks necessarily mean the end of our unilateral negotiations? Bush seemed to think so.

I don't necessarily think Kerry's Korea position will help him win the election, I just think it might be a better policy. Maybe.

What Kerry really should have done was hammer home the idea that Bush let the Korea situation go to hell while being distracted in Iraq, which he sort of tried to do, but not effectively enough, in my mind.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-30 11:03pm

A lot of people think "the global test" meme is going to give Kerry some problems in the future, and I think they're right. Expect to see it in a Bush campaign commercial soon, maybe within a week.

Bush, on the other hand looked embarrassing but didn't give Kerry and juicy soundbites for mudslinging.

Veramocor · Post by **Veramocor** » 2004-09-30 11:03pm

Didn't Kerry need a knockout blow in this debate. It seems from everyones consensus that it was a tie to a slight Kerry advantage, how is a slight win going to get him 6% points?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-30 11:05pm

Veramocor wrote:Didn't Kerry need a knockout blow in this debate. It seems from everyones consensus that it was a tie to a slight Kerry advantage, how is a slight win going to get him 6% points?

I would expect a modest bounce at the very least. However, a lot of people see Kerry as the flip-flopper and that's a big problem for him. I don't see this debate altering that perception.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-30 11:06pm

Sean Hannity CAN'T stop sucking Bush's cock.

"I've never seen the president this passionate and articulate."

What the FUCK were you wacthing Sean?!?!

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 11:06pm

Veramocor wrote:Didn't Kerry need a knockout blow in this debate. It seems from everyones consensus that it was a tie to a slight Kerry advantage, how is a slight win going to get him 6% points?

It's not. Kerry needs a terrorist attack on US soil, a major military disaster in Iraq, some sort of huge Bush blunder in one of the two upcoming debates, or a major unforseen political bomb in order to win.

muse · Post by **muse** » 2004-09-30 11:07pm

We all know that Bush is a poor public speaker unless he's reading from a script and only the most deluded would think he'd beat Kerry in a debate. The question is, did Kerry beat him or did he completely utterly crush Bush into the ground in a convincing fashion and kick him when he was down? Because unless he did so, I don't think he's going to gain much since his win in the debate was a foregone conclusion to most rational people so he'd need to put on a really good show in order to make a large gain.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-30 11:09pm

RedImperator wrote:Anyone care to explain why I should watch this instead of pro wrestling?

Because nothing, not even a debate between those two morons, can be dumber than pro wrestling.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-30 11:09pm

It certainly wasn't an overwhelming victory for Kerry, I just think alot of people here were just really surprised how well he did overall.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-30 11:10pm

RedImperator wrote:Anyone care to explain why I should watch this instead of pro wrestling?

Because nothing, not even a debate between those two morons, can be dumber than pro wrestling.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-30 11:10pm

Preliminary polls indicate a considerable bounce for Kerry.

jcow79 · Post by **jcow79** » 2004-09-30 11:11pm

Is it just me or did Bush sound like some kind of preacher in his closing statement? Was was all that stuff about the "mighty mountain"?

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 11:11pm

muse wrote:We all know that Bush is a poor public speaker unless he's reading from a script and only the most deluded would think he'd beat Kerry in a debate. The question is, did Kerry beat him or did he completely utterly crush Bush into the ground in a convincing fashion and kick him when he was down? Because unless he did so, I don't think he's going to gain much since his win in the debate was a foregone conclusion to most rational people so he'd need to put on a really good show in order to make a large gain.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200407/fallows
Look, I just don't buy "Bush sucks at public speaking!!!" I mean he did fine tonight.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-30 11:12pm

muse wrote:We all know that Bush is a poor public speaker unless he's reading from a script and only the most deluded would think he'd beat Kerry in a debate. The question is, did Kerry beat him or did he completely utterly crush Bush into the ground in a convincing fashion and kick him when he was down? Because unless he did so, I don't think he's going to gain much since his win in the debate was a foregone conclusion to most rational people so he'd need to put on a really good show in order to make a large gain.

At certain times Kerry was crushing Bush, at others Bush looked to be treading water. Overall Kerry did a superb job, but it wasn't totally one-sided.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-09-30 11:13pm

muse wrote:We all know that Bush is a poor public speaker unless he's reading from a script and only the most deluded would think he'd beat Kerry in a debate. The question is, did Kerry beat him or did he completely utterly crush Bush into the ground in a convincing fashion and kick him when he was down? Because unless he did so, I don't think he's going to gain much since his win in the debate was a foregone conclusion to most rational people so he'd need to put on a really good show in order to make a large gain.

And he didn't, atleast IMO. Bush held himself long enough so as Kerry didn't have a shut out, which is what he needed.

I'd expect a small gain, probably more in the 'battleground' states, but it might evapourate over the coming weeks with campaign comercials using the 'bites'.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-30 11:15pm

Bush and Kerry both had six (Bush) and ten (Kerry) talking points that they cycled through. But Kerry sounded natural and strong in doing it, while Bush sounded desperate, especially in the last half-hour where his endurance started to flag.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-30 11:15pm

Andrew Sullivan - "No president who has presided over Abu Ghraib should ever say he wants to put anyone on a leash"

Marksist · Post by **Marksist** » 2004-09-30 11:18pm

Rob Cordry: "A retarded man held his own against a sitting Senator.. you got to re-elect him!"

Uther · Post by **Uther** » 2004-09-30 11:18pm

Joe wrote:Andrew Sullivan - "No president who has presided over Abu Ghraib should ever say he wants to put anyone on a leash"

Haha, oh god I hope moveon.org or some group with no accountability catches on to that. That's crazy.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-30 11:24pm

Peggy Noonan: "[Bush] Less verbally agile, but winning your sympathy"

No he didn't bitch

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-30 11:27pm

I'm listening to Jon Stewart interviewing Rudy Giuliani, and I can't help but wonder...

Is it my imagination or does Giuliani have a lisp?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-30 11:28pm

Iceberg wrote:Preliminary polls indicate a considerable bounce for Kerry.

By which group, if you know?