Spain approves gay marriage bill

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-10-01 09:16am

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Spain has moved a big step closer to permitting gay marriage after the Cabinet approved a bill authorizing homosexuals to marry and adopt children.

"The Cabinet has approved a bill to revise the Civil Code to permit homosexual matrimony," Deputy Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega announced Friday after the weekly Cabinet meeting.

The bill now goes to Parliament, where the Socialist government says it has enough support to pass the law, which could make gay marriage possible by next year.

The bill also provides for homosexual marriages to have the same rights on inheritance and pensions, and seeking bank credit, as heterosexual spouses.

It's a great day for all because we end centuries of discrimination," Fernandez de la Vega told reporters, adding that homosexuals are "our family members and co-workers. They're citizens like the rest of us with obligations and rights."

She said there were about 4 million homosexuals in Spain, which would amount to 10 percent of the nation's 40 million people.

The Roman Catholic Church has staunchly opposed the initiative, and one leading cleric has called gay marriage a "virus." Church leaders say it will lead to the breakdown of the family as a core factor in society. (Full story)

Spain would become only the third European nation permitting gay marriage, after Holland and Belgium, gay rights leaders say.

Fernandez de la Vega said there was no evidence that homosexual parents are worse than heterosexual parents and that the prime decision in permitting an adoption should be the well-being of the child.

A survey published Monday in the newspaper El Pais, which supports the Socialist party, said 62 percent of those questioned support gay marriage.

Suck it down real hard, fundie bitches. Although I must ask 10% of the population gay? Isn't that number a bit too high?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-10-01 09:18am

What? Spain? As strongly Catholic as they are?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-10-01 09:20am

Gil Hamilton wrote:What? Spain? As strongly Catholic as they are?

The Church's influence on Spaniards has declined precipitously since the death in 1975 of the dictator General Francisco Franco. His regime was closely linked to the Church.

Opinion polls suggest that nearly half of Spaniards now almost never go to mass.

The situation is the same in Portugal, not surprisingly.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-01 09:25am

Spain would become only the third European nation permitting gay marriage, after Holland and Belgium, gay rights leaders say.

since when is germany not part of europe, or did i miss something?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-01 10:03am

Although I must ask 10% of the population gay? Isn't that number a bit too high?

I dunno, Australia is said to be 17% gay...

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-10-01 10:17am

Ma Deuce wrote:
Although I must ask 10% of the population gay? Isn't that number a bit too high?
I dunno, Australia is said to be 17% gay...

How could the not be with the dashing likes of Steve Irwin running around?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-01 10:20am

salm wrote:
Spain would become only the third European nation permitting gay marriage, after Holland and Belgium, gay rights leaders say.
since when is germany not part of europe, or did i miss something?

Probably just a honest mistake on their part...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-10-01 10:22am

Ma Deuce wrote:I dunno, Australia is said to be 17% gay...

Who said that, out of curiousity?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-01 10:26am

Stofsk wrote:Who said that, out of curiousity?

A survey done a while back, in which 17% of the respondants reported being homosexual, making Australia the "gayest" country in the world.

We had a thread on this: lemme see if I can find it...

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-01 10:29am

Ma Deuce wrote:We had a thread on this: lemme see if I can find it...

Ah, here it is.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-01 01:41pm

Colonel Olrik wrote: Suck it down real hard, fundie bitches.

Agreed; this is a good day, indeed.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-10-01 04:09pm

salm wrote: since when is germany not part of europe, or did i miss something?

In Germany homosexuals can not marry each others.
They just have access to a second-class "eingetragene Partnerschaft" which is neither in name nor rights and regulations equal to a marriage.
It was and is just called by the Media "Homoehe".

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-10-01 07:18pm

Ma Deuce wrote:
Although I must ask 10% of the population gay? Isn't that number a bit too high?
I dunno, Australia is said to be 17% gay...

I think it was Masters and Johnson that started the 10% thing as a standard percentage, I've seen estimates as high as 20% in some gay publications.
I think 10% is closer to the truth.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-01 08:42pm

Tis sad when you think that Spain is legalizing it and the US is trying its damnedest to make an ammendment to outlaw it.

Boooo us, Boooo.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-10-01 09:16pm

Knife wrote:

Tis sad when you think that Spain is legalizing it and the US is trying its damnedest to make an ammendment to outlaw it.

Boooo us, Boooo.

Hey, that vote to ban failed yesterday in the House. I'm not overly upset about anything in that regard right now.

Yeah, there's screaming reactionaries who think that the existance of SS marriage is an attck, but that's to be expected in a world as full of hatred and stupidity like this.
The important thing is that another round in the ban ammendment circus was defeated yesterday.
Yaaaay, U.S., yaaay!

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-01 09:34pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Hey, that vote to ban failed yesterday in the House. I'm not overly upset about anything in that regard right now.
Yeah, there's screaming reactionaries who think that the existance of SS marriage is an attck, but that's to be expected in a world as full of hatred and stupidity like this.
The important thing is that another round in the ban ammendment circus was defeated yesterday.
Yaaaay, U.S., yaaay!

True, though I look at the 37 Dems who voted 'Yes' on the bill and the (IIRC) 27 Repubs who voted no.

What the hell does it say when more Dems vote for than the Repubs who vote no on such a thing?

The whole thing is disscusting. Especially since in Utah, I fully expect (minus mine and my wife's vote against) the Amendment 3 to pass in the Utah Consitution. Granted, I hope the SCOTUS drop kicks it, but.....

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-10-01 10:45pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:What? Spain? As strongly Catholic as they are?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-10-01 10:52pm

The ofiicial church response condemned it and said soemthing along the lines of "Homosexual marriage would spread like a virus through the world and destroy the sanctity of marriage." As if a bunch of child molesting old men who aren't allowed to have normal relations with a woman have ANY right to lecture us about the sanctity of marriage.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-01 10:53pm

Stravo wrote:The ofiicial church response condemned it and said soemthing along the lines of "Homosexual marriage would spread like a virus through the world and destroy the sanctity of marriage." As if a bunch of child molesting old men who aren't allowed to have normal relations with a woman have ANY right to lecture us about the sanctity of marriage.

Or a 50% divorse rate.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-02 08:50am

Thinkmarble wrote:In Germany homosexuals can not marry each others.
They just have access to a second-class "eingetragene Partnerschaft" which is neither in name nor rights and regulations equal to a marriage.

Registered partnerships? That's basically the same as civil unions, yes?

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-02 09:26am

Thinkmarble wrote: In Germany homosexuals can not marry each others.
They just have access to a second-class "eingetragene Partnerschaft" which is neither in name nor rights and regulations equal to a marriage.
It was and is just called by the Media "Homoehe".

hmm... i just read up on it. damn that sucks. what sucks even more is that this partnerschaft was just introduced recently and because of that people won´t push that much for a change now.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-02 10:26am

They can always come live in Canada

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-10-02 11:58am

salm wrote: hmm... i just read up on it. damn that sucks. what sucks even more is that this partnerschaft was just introduced recently and because of that people won´t push that much for a change now.

I wouldn't be so sure.
If Westerwelle really wants to get away from being the head of the "Spasspartei" we will eventually see it as a topic of the next federal election, with the FDP and the greens both trying to paint themselves as the more progressive party.

Ma Deuce wrote: Partnerships? That's basically the same as civil unions, yes?

In germany all marriages are civil unions, as you are married before an official of the state.
The marriage before a priest confers no legal status*.

Furthermore the registered partnership is less then an civil union* as you do not receive all the rights a married couple receives (eg. a homosexual couple can not adopt a child).
*
I'm under the impression that marrying before an ordained minister confers legal status in the USA, correct me if I'm wrong
**
I may be wrong but the general impression I got was that the people advocating a civil union for homosexual couples were bascially advocating the cloning of the marriage laws and renaming it.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-02 12:29pm

Thinkmarble wrote:
salm wrote: hmm... i just read up on it. damn that sucks. what sucks even more is that this partnerschaft was just introduced recently and because of that people won´t push that much for a change now.
I wouldn't be so sure.
If Westerwelle really wants to get away from being the head of the "Spasspartei" we will eventually see it as a topic of the next federal election, with the FDP and the greens both trying to paint themselves as the more progressive party.

That still wouldn't pass, as it would give the CSU and to an extend the CDU, apoplexy, and thus we won't see it in the near future.

And the greens, especially people like Volker Beck, are pushing the topic. But they, as well as the SPD, know that they will never get it through the Federal Council, so the SPD is saving itself a defeat in the Federal Council.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-02 08:26pm

Well it's been a day. Has Spain collapsed into anarchy yet? The Church never really gives a timeframe for its doom-saying.

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