Join me Obi-Wan, and together we can destroy the Sith

Jean Paul · Post by **Jean Paul** » 2004-10-04 01:37pm

What did Dooku mean here? Was he sincere? Did he have ambitions of disposing of Palpatine? Did he thirst for power for himself or was there some other reason?

Do you think Dooku thought he was doing "the right thing" for the galaxy all along, or was he like Palpy, aka pure evil, knowing it and not giving a shit?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-04 01:42pm

Every Sith Apprentice wishes to overthrow their master.

He wanted to convert Obi-Wan...overthrow Palpy and take Palpy's plan under his control.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-04 01:44pm

It also was meant to confuse the audience about Dooku's true motivations since this scene followed the Seperatist meeting.

Of course, as GR said, he didn't mention the "take over the galaxy while we're at it" clause to Obi-Wan.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-04 04:06pm

I thought he was also trying to poison the well in case Obi-Wan escaped.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-04 05:30pm

Elfdart wrote:I thought he was also trying to poison the well in case Obi-Wan escaped.

Well, that does come into effect at the end of AOTC.

Hmm.

It's likely that Dooku was already planning to usurp his Master's position and power. But he knew that at that point in time, he wouldn't be able to take down Sidious by himself.

So, it could works both ways. Obi-Wan joins him and he's got another Jedi on his side. Or, Obi-Wan escapes, as he did, and he passes on the revelation to the Jedi Council. The Council, already weary of Dooku and their connection to the fallen Master, will also focus their energies on finding Sidious and, if all goes to Dooku's plan, taking him down and saving him the trouble.

Obviously, he couldn't tell Obi-Wan upfront that Sidious and Palpatine were one and the same. That would mean that his Master would get taken out early on and at that point in the game, the Clone Wars were not even underway. Without Palpatine and Dooku on the same mental level and positioning Republic and Seperatist forces, that would not delay the conclusion of the Clone Wars as long as possible, one of the key aspects to Palpatine's eventual ascension as Wong has aruged on the main site.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-04 07:54pm

JME2 wrote:
Elfdart wrote:I thought he was also trying to poison the well in case Obi-Wan escaped.
Well, that does come into effect at the end of AOTC.

Hmm.

It's likely that Dooku was already planning to usurp his Master's position and power. But he knew that at that point in time, he wouldn't be able to take down Sidious by himself.

So, it could works both ways. Obi-Wan joins him and he's got another Jedi on his side. Or, Obi-Wan escapes, as he did, and he passes on the revelation to the Jedi Council. The Council, already weary of Dooku and their connection to the fallen Master, will also focus their energies on finding Sidious and, if all goes to Dooku's plan, taking him down and saving him the trouble.

Obviously, he couldn't tell Obi-Wan upfront that Sidious and Palpatine were one and the same. That would mean that his Master would get taken out early on and at that point in the game, the Clone Wars were not even underway. Without Palpatine and Dooku on the same mental level and positioning Republic and Seperatist forces, that would not delay the conclusion of the Clone Wars as long as possible, one of the key aspects to Palpatine's eventual ascension as Wong has aruged on the main site.

If Kenobi joins him (fat chance, but worth a try), he's made quite a find. If Kenobi escapes, he will tell everyone that the Senate is controlled by the Sith and by implication undermine Palpatine -provided anyone believes him. Of course, there's also a good chance the Jedi and others will assume Dooku is bullshitting, thus immunizing Palpatine when real evidence comes forward to show he's a Sith and out to take over the galaxy. Sidious' flacks would easily dismiss such talk as a conspiracy theory cooked up by his enemies. No matter how you slice it, Dooku wins -that is, until he cuts off the arm of a young Jedi with a vicious streak a mile wide who is going to make him pay...

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-04 09:40pm

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how quickly or slowly Anakin finishes off Dooku.

(And when you said posioning the well, I assume you meant tie into the dissent that the Jedi feel at this point in time. Some might dismiss the idea that a Sith lord is in control of the Senate, others embrace it, etc. ?)

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-04 10:37pm

JME2 wrote:Yes, it'll be interesting to see how quickly or slowly Anakin finishes off Dooku.

(And when you said posioning the well, I assume you meant tie into the dissent that the Jedi feel at this point in time. Some might dismiss the idea that a Sith lord is in control of the Senate, others embrace it, etc. ?)

I'd imagine Dooku gets whacked by Anakin pretty early on, unless Revenge of the Sith is going to be 3-plus hours long.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-10-04 10:41pm

Elfdart wrote:
JME2 wrote:Yes, it'll be interesting to see how quickly or slowly Anakin finishes off Dooku.

(And when you said posioning the well, I assume you meant tie into the dissent that the Jedi feel at this point in time. Some might dismiss the idea that a Sith lord is in control of the Senate, others embrace it, etc. ?)
I'd imagine Dooku gets whacked by Anakin pretty early on, unless Revenge of the Sith is going to be 3-plus hours long.

The death of Dooku would effectively be the end of the clone wars (as it'd be the death of the seperatist leader). I doubt it'd happen at the very beginning.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-04 11:43pm

Praxis wrote:
Elfdart wrote:
JME2 wrote:Yes, it'll be interesting to see how quickly or slowly Anakin finishes off Dooku.

(And when you said posioning the well, I assume you meant tie into the dissent that the Jedi feel at this point in time. Some might dismiss the idea that a Sith lord is in control of the Senate, others embrace it, etc. ?)
I'd imagine Dooku gets whacked by Anakin pretty early on, unless Revenge of the Sith is going to be 3-plus hours long.
The death of Dooku would effectively be the end of the clone wars (as it'd be the death of the seperatist leader). I doubt it'd happen at the very beginning.

GL has stated that the Clone Wars will be ending as the third and final prequel opens. The film is less about the Clone Wars than it is about Anakin's final steps to the dark side.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-10-05 02:00am

JME2 wrote:
Praxis wrote:
Elfdart wrote: I'd imagine Dooku gets whacked by Anakin pretty early on, unless Revenge of the Sith is going to be 3-plus hours long.
The death of Dooku would effectively be the end of the clone wars (as it'd be the death of the seperatist leader). I doubt it'd happen at the very beginning.
GL has stated that the Clone Wars will be ending as the third and final prequel opens. The film is less about the Clone Wars than it is about Anakin's final steps to the dark side.

Oh, of course the clone wars will end. But isn't it a bit anticlimatic to have all this hype about the beginning of the Clone Wars, only to have it end in the first ten minutes of the movie?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-05 02:07am

Praxis wrote:Oh, of course the clone wars will end. But isn't it a bit anticlimatic to have all this hype about the beginning of the Clone Wars, only to have it end in the first ten minutes of the movie?

That depends on just how spectacular the ending of the Clone Wars is.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-10-05 02:13am

and 5,000 capital ships and an unknown amount of fighters is pretty spectacular.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-10-05 02:17am

Praxis wrote:Oh, of course the clone wars will end. But isn't it a bit anticlimatic to have all this hype about the beginning of the Clone Wars, only to have it end in the first ten minutes of the movie?

The Clone Wars has been the subject of choice for numerous EU venues. New Clone Wars era books have been coming out, an entire line of Dark Horse comics have been dedicated to it, and there have been the various games, along with the animated Clone Wars shorts.

It will be interesting to see how much from these sources is referenced to in Episode 3 (Kenobi's apparant death/kidnapping, Anakin being left in command of an entire planet on a losing battle, and so on), if at all.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-10-05 02:23am

Ender wrote:and 5,000 capital ships and an unknown amount of fighters is pretty spectacular.

We hope. I'm not exactly optimistic that Lucas won't give the fans the shaft again somehow. Probably make Jar Jar an Admiral or something.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-05 02:40am

Hotfoot wrote:
It will be interesting to see how much from these sources is referenced to in Episode 3 (Kenobi's apparant death/kidnapping, Anakin being left in command of an entire planet on a losing battle, and so on), if at all.

Some aspects, like Anakin's scars will get mentioned. We can get a better idea of what will happen in James Lucenco's upcoming novel, Labyrinth of Evil.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-10-05 03:01am

Hotfoot wrote: It will be interesting to see how much from these sources is referenced to in Episode 3 (Kenobi's apparant death/kidnapping, Anakin being left in command of an entire planet on a losing battle, and so on), if at all.

Which incidents are you referring to? When Anakin commanded the forces in the Clone Wars cartoon, they won.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-10-05 03:07am

Praxis wrote:Which incidents are you referring to? When Anakin commanded the forces in the Clone Wars cartoon, they won.

I'm referring primarily to the Dark Horse Star Wars: Republic comics, as they are my primary sources. There is a period of time where Kenobi goes missing and is presumed dead. During this time, Anakin ends up in command of forces on a planet being overrun by the enemy, as all the Masters on the planet were killed.

nasor · Post by **nasor** » 2004-10-05 12:07pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Every Sith Apprentice wishes to overthrow their master.

Dooku was probably even more eager to do this than most, since he was already a fully-trained jedi master before he turned to the dark side. He probably sailed right past most of the usual sith apprentice stuff.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-05 04:50pm

The truth can be as dangerous as a lie. I thought D's pitch was brilliant! Snare Obi and the separatists with the truth and let the righteous Republic and the righteous Separatists fight it out.

Aki-Wan Hanabi · Post by **Aki-Wan Hanabi** » 2004-10-06 05:10am

The Clone Wars has been the subject of choice for numerous EU venues. New Clone Wars era books have been coming out, an entire line of Dark Horse comics have been dedicated to it, and there have been the various games, along with the animated Clone Wars shorts.

Personally, I liked the comic book where Gungans were killed using some kind of a biochemical weapon

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-06 01:41pm

Aki-Wan Hanabi wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:The Clone Wars has been the subject of choice for numerous EU venues. New Clone Wars era books have been coming out, an entire line of Dark Horse comics have been dedicated to it, and there have been the various games, along with the animated Clone Wars shorts.
Personally, I liked the comic book where Gungans were killed using some kind of a biochemical weapon

I take it then you were wishing that a certain Gungan Senator had been among those killed?

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2004-10-06 01:51pm

The Count was definitely trying to cover his tracks when he uttered that phrase. I'd say that Dooku also wanted Kenobi to escape and return to the Jedi Council about the Sith controlling the Senate in an attempt to drive a wedge between the Jedi and politicians. If Obi-wan had joined Dooku, old Palpy would have gone down and things would have been very different.