Energy release from a solar flare/ejection

[Praxis]

In a recent ST episode, a Bird of Prey commanded by Martok and Worf (and with crewmembers consisting of Bashir, O'Brien, and even Quark) used technobabble and the nav deflector to zap a star and cause a big blast of plasma from the Sun's surface, or perhaps just a large flare (difficult to tell from the images) to jump up- it wiped out the two Jem Hadar on their tale and kept going and hit a Cardassian shipyard and destroy it.

In another episode, the Enterprise used a solar flare (definitely flames, not plasma) to destroy a Borg ship.

So I have two questions:

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

2) Why don't they use this more often? Wouldn't it be the ultimate weapon (discounting the Death Star), where a single ship can decloak, fly past a sun, cause a solar flare, and wipe out any shipyard, starbase, or even PLANET that they want to? What would prevent anyone from using this to destroy any planet they feel like?

[Darth Wong]

In a recent ST episode, a Bird of Prey commanded by Martok and Worf (and with crewmembers consisting of Bashir, O'Brien, and even Quark) used technobabble and the nav deflector to zap a star and cause a big blast of plasma from the Sun's surface, or perhaps just a large flare (difficult to tell from the images) to jump up- it wiped out the two Jem Hadar on their tale and kept going and hit a Cardassian shipyard and destroy it.

In another episode, the Enterprise used a solar flare (definitely flames, not plasma) to destroy a Borg ship.

No, it must be plasma, because that's what the Sun is composed of. The term "burn" when it applies to nuclear fusion is somewhat figurative; it's not like actual flames, and it does not occur anywhere near the surface. The stuff on the surface is just plasma, and when it gets flung away, it's still just plasma.

So I have two questions:

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

The energy content is large but it's spread over countless millions of cubic kilometres of space, so the intensity is relatively low. See my Canon Database entry (on "Descent" IIRC)

2) Why don't they use this more often? Wouldn't it be the ultimate weapon (discounting the Death Star), where a single ship can decloak, fly past a sun, cause a solar flare, and wipe out any shipyard, starbase, or even PLANET that they want to? What would prevent anyone from using this to destroy any planet they feel like?

Its effectiveness probably depends on the stability of the star they happen to be dealing with.

[Praxis]

In a recent ST episode, a Bird of Prey commanded by Martok and Worf (and with crewmembers consisting of Bashir, O'Brien, and even Quark) used technobabble and the nav deflector to zap a star and cause a big blast of plasma from the Sun's surface, or perhaps just a large flare (difficult to tell from the images) to jump up- it wiped out the two Jem Hadar on their tale and kept going and hit a Cardassian shipyard and destroy it.

In another episode, the Enterprise used a solar flare (definitely flames, not plasma) to destroy a Borg ship.

No, it must be plasma, because that's what the Sun is composed of. The term "burn" when it applies to nuclear fusion is somewhat figurative; it's not like actual flames, and it does not occur anywhere near the surface. The stuff on the surface is just plasma, and when it gets flung away, it's still just plasma.

My mistake. You're absolutely right and I knew that. My brain is just fried at the moment. Sorry.

So I have two questions:

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

The energy content is large but it's spread over countless millions of cubic kilometres of space, so the intensity is relatively low. See my Canon Database entry (on "Descent" IIRC)

TY, just looked at it after reading your post. I spotted this:
"Naval Weapons: the Borg ship can't simply fire at the Enterprise from outside the corona, which suggests either a range limitation or a targeting problem. Unfortunately, there's no way to determine the actual range in this situation, since a corona doesn't have a sharply defined surface. It grows gradually more dense as you move toward the Sun, until some predetermined point at which it is presumably deadly to a Borg ship."

I wanted to point out something- in another episode (the one with Hugh in it, what was it called...) the Enterprise hides near a sun and a Borg scout fails to detect them. If I recall, the sun's radiation masked them from sensors. So that might explain why the Borg couldn't fire.

2) Why don't they use this more often? Wouldn't it be the ultimate weapon (discounting the Death Star), where a single ship can decloak, fly past a sun, cause a solar flare, and wipe out any shipyard, starbase, or even PLANET that they want to? What would prevent anyone from using this to destroy any planet they feel like?

Its effectiveness probably depends on the stability of the star they happen to be dealing with.

Ah. So perhaps it can only be used in some systems. I guess that would make sense.

[Gustav32Vasa]

I wanted to point out something- in another episode (the one with Hugh in it, what was it called...) the Enterprise hides near a sun and a Borg scout fails to detect them. If I recall, the sun's radiation masked them from sensors. So that might explain why the Borg couldn't fire.

Or that the probe didnt look after the Enterprise, it had no reason to think that she was there. The probe only gathered the dead borg and Hugh and then left.

[Praxis]

I wanted to point out something- in another episode (the one with Hugh in it, what was it called...) the Enterprise hides near a sun and a Borg scout fails to detect them. If I recall, the sun's radiation masked them from sensors. So that might explain why the Borg couldn't fire.

Or that the probe didnt look after the Enterprise, it had no reason to think that she was there. The probe only gathered the dead borg and Hugh and then left.

Still, it would have had passive scanning on, and hey, it's a scout, it's SUPPOSED to watch for new stuff.

Besides, the crew specificly said that the radiation would mask them, if I recall.

[Praxis]

Crap, where's that dang edit button?

Anyway...:

PICARD: We'll beam him down and take position in the star's chromosphere. Its interference will hide us from their sensors.

...

DATA: We are now entering position. Radiation levels are rising.

PICARD: Increase power to the shields. Hold us here.

RIKER: Status of the Borg ship?

DATA: Solar radiation is rendering our sensors inoperable. At last known course and speed, the Borg vessel will enter the system in three minutes.

Obviously, the star's chromosphere blocked both the Borg sensors AND their own.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Obviously, the star's chromosphere blocked both the Borg sensors AND their own.

You're right.

[Praxis]

So the intensity is fairly low? Does this imply that the Cardy shipyard has really bad shields, considering it was utterly wiped out by the solar flare? Or was the flare in that episode FAR denser than usual (considering it appeared solid, unlike the one in Descent which you could see through)?

[Robert Walper]

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

The energy content is large but it's spread over countless millions of cubic kilometres of space, so the intensity is relatively low. See my Canon Database entry (on "Descent" IIRC)

Pardon me Mike, but IIRC, virtually every solar flare I've seen initiated in this manner is rarely much larger than the object (ships specifically come to mind) being destroyed by it. That suggests the energy in fact is quite concentrated, would it not?

[Darth Wong]

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

The energy content is large but it's spread over countless millions of cubic kilometres of space, so the intensity is relatively low. See my Canon Database entry (on "Descent" IIRC)

Pardon me Mike, but IIRC, virtually every solar flare I've seen initiated in this manner is rarely much larger than the object (ships specifically come to mind) being destroyed by it. That suggests the energy in fact is quite concentrated, would it not?

Only if you're a cretin, since the photospheric gases from which the flare was generated are not very concentrated either.

[Praxis]

1) How much energy is released in a large solar flare, or a large solar ejection? Does this make Star Trek ships very weak, or could such a flare take out a Star Destroyer? How about SSD? Death Star (unlikely )?

The energy content is large but it's spread over countless millions of cubic kilometres of space, so the intensity is relatively low. See my Canon Database entry (on "Descent" IIRC)

Pardon me Mike, but IIRC, virtually every solar flare I've seen initiated in this manner is rarely much larger than the object (ships specifically come to mind) being destroyed by it. That suggests the energy in fact is quite concentrated, would it not?

The one in Descent was barely larger than the Borg ship, but you could literally see THROUGH the flare, indicating very low density.

And the one in DS9 was WAY, WAY larger than the object being destroyed. A Bird of Prey set that off, and it took out three Jem Hadar fighters due to its sheer size (since it was very slow moving relative to them) and easily engulfed an entire SHIPYARD. Not to mention that you couldn't see through it like the one in Descent.

[dragon]

As for the amount of Energy according to
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/sohopr3.htm
The energy released for a moderate flare is 20 times that of the us consumption.
According to http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/ ... ables.html Us consume 10^20 Joules. So a moderate flare has 20^21 Joules of power but it is spread out over a large area.

The problem is not the power but the radiation. A flare at its peak can generate more the 40 billions times as much radition as a nuclear bomb.

[Kuroneko]

As for the amount of Energy according to
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/sohopr3.htm
The energy released for a moderate flare is 20 times that of the us consumption.
According to http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/ ... ables.html Us consume 10^20 Joules. So a moderate flare has 20^21 Joules of power but it is spread out over a large area.

Your figure is at least thirty thousand times too high. Assuming the information on the websites is correct, with US power consumption between 1e12 and 1e14W (it's not clear whether electrical or total is intended, so I'll just take a broad window), then that solar flare released between 6e20 and 6e22 joules. On the other hand, 20^21 ~ 2e27, a much higher number.

A problem in the above is that seismic effects are included, and no detailed information is given about the actual flare.

[dragon]

Hum was basing my numbers of the list further down the page. And a quick check on google shows US power consumption in 99 was 1.02*10^20

[Kuroneko]

Hum was basing my numbers of the list further down the page. And a quick check on google shows US power consumption in 99 was 1.02*10^20

Ah, so you wrote 20^21 instead of 2.0e21. Those are two very different numbers, differing by about a million-to-one.

Nevertheless, the energy released by the starquake is next to useless in determining the specifics of the flare that caused it.