What is the best response to this Iraq charge?

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » 2004-10-06 05:47pm

The right wing pundits are all greased up with Karl Rove's latest tactic, to directly attack Kerry's Senate record so look for Bush to go nuts on that issue Friday. Mexed Missages will likely move a bit to the background with this new push.

However, here in my area a local radio station mixes non-political shows with conservative shows so every once in a while I get a good laugh listening the the ever-dependably biased Sean Hannity. He had Dick Morris on (I thought we'd drive this guy into a oblivion already) who finally came up with a retort I've been amazed the Bush team hasn't used yet. Whenever Kerry or Edwards hits them with, "....but Saddam didn't attack us on 9/11", Morris finally realized a decent response to that should be, "Germany didn't attack us in World War II either but they needed to be dealt with and then we dealt with Japan."

My best answer to this is that Iraq was not an immediate threat, as all the facts have now borne out. Germany clearly was not only an immediate threat but was a current threat having sunk a number of our ships at that point. I have a feeling that the Bush guys will roll this response out on Friday after getting Kerry to go for the points with it again.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-06 05:54pm

To play Devil's Advocate, Germany didn't attack us in 1941, but they did declare war on us a few days after Pearl Harbor.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-10-06 05:55pm

Comparing Germany, which at the start of World War II was one of the world's superpowers, to Iraq, which hasn't even been a regional power since 1991, is a gross distortion of the facts.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-06 05:57pm

germany actually had attacked other nation by the relevant time whereas irak had not.
what the hell is this guy talking about iraq and germany being analogous? what a moron.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-10-06 06:01pm

Agrajag wrote:My best answer to this is that Iraq was not an immediate threat, as all the facts have now borne out. Germany clearly was not only an immediate threat but was a current threat having sunk a number of our ships at that point. I have a feeling that the Bush guys will roll this response out on Friday after getting Kerry to go for the points with it again.

There's also the point that Nazi Germany was in the process of overrunning all of its neighbors in a bid for total European hegemony, whereas pre-conquest Iraq was in the process of doing absolutely nothing and stagnating without any hope of turning its fortunes around. A direct comparison between the two states isn't even apples and oranges, it's steak and oranges.

So, IMHO, the best response to this Iraq charge is to call Hannity a fucking retard and punch him in his fat head.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-06 06:04pm

Iceberg wrote:Comparing Germany, which at the start of World War II was one of the world's superpowers, to Iraq, which hasn't even been a regional power since 1991, is a gross distortion of the facts.

Warmongers have been trying to equate Iraq to Nazi Germany for years now. Remember before the war, when everyone in the pro-war camp (including some on this board) kept tarring anyone who opposed the war as a new-age Chamberlain?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-10-06 06:12pm

Darth Wong wrote:Warmongers have been trying to equate Iraq to Nazi Germany for years now. Remember before the war, when everyone in the pro-war camp (including some on this board) kept tarring anyone who opposed the war as a new-age Chamberlain?

Yes, but when the US Army destroyed Iraq effectively unopposed and it became clear that it had been utterly incapable of offering even the most minor threat to its neighbors, the right wing stopped harping on that point for a while. Now it may appear that they're trying to resurrect that theory.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-06 06:16pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Warmongers have been trying to equate Iraq to Nazi Germany for years now. Remember before the war, when everyone in the pro-war camp (including some on this board) kept tarring anyone who opposed the war as a new-age Chamberlain?
Yes, but when the US Army destroyed Iraq effectively unopposed and it became clear that it had been utterly incapable of offering even the most minor threat to its neighbors, the right wing stopped harping on that point for a while. Now it may appear that they're trying to resurrect that theory.

Well, switching theories confuses the opponents

Hard to keep track on why this war actually happened according to Bush...

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-06 06:32pm

Dahak wrote: Well, switching theories confuses the opponents
Hard to keep track on why this war actually happened according to Bush...

No shit. If the CinC doesn't know why we did this then Average Joe hasn't got a snowball's chances in Hell.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-06 06:43pm

There are simillarities between Nazi Germany and Iraq, both were ruled by vicious murderous tyrants.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-06 06:47pm

CJvR wrote:There are simillarities between Nazi Germany and Iraq, both were ruled by vicious murderous tyrants.

Both of them also had land area, and both of them possessed tanks. Verily, the similarities are incredible! TO WAR!

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » 2004-10-06 07:52pm

So really, it seems the best response to this would be something like, "That you would even begin to equate Germany in 1939 with Iraq underscores everything that's wrong with this administration."

If it needs to go further then they can point out the beginning of the holocaust, the superpower status, the domination status, etc.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-10-06 08:22pm

This also continues the not-so-subtle implication that Iraq and al-Queda were strongly in cohoots, since Germany declared war on America because of it's treaty with Japan. Unless they can demonstrate that Iraq and al-Queda were butt buddies in the same was that Germany and Japan were, then this is just more bullshit.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-10-06 08:46pm

CJvR wrote:There are simillarities between Nazi Germany and Iraq, both were ruled by vicious murderous tyrants.

With black hair and moustaches. I seriously think that Saddam could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he'd shaved.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-06 08:58pm

The Germans sank American ships in international waters. Right after they declared war on the US, they sank ships in American waters from Maine to Florida to Texas. U-boats even shelled Galveston. Condor bombers tried to attack American shipping on December 11, 1941, but a P-38 made one of 'em pay...

You have to go back to the accidental attack on the USS Stark in 1987 (?) to find the last time Iraq did anything to this country. Hussein might have tried to have Bush 41 whacked in Kuwait, but fair's fair since he tried to have Saddam rubbed out.

Anyone looking for similarities between Saddam's Iraq and Adolf's Germany is grasping for straws.

Roy Cohn's nephew (aka Dick "head" Morris) is living proof than horses' asses are more common than horses.

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » 2004-10-06 09:17pm

Wasn't he the one that was found to have shared critical information with prostitutes and bragging about his position with them?

Figures the Right would have this guy on to speak for people. Has anyone ever seen Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter on camera together?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-07 08:21am

Hussein might have tried to have Bush 41 whacked in Kuwait, but fair's fair since he tried to have Saddam rubbed out.

Who said that international relations were based on fairness?!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-10-07 09:37am

I'm surprised no one's brought up Abu Nidal yet.

He lived in Iraq for quite a long time with Saddam's blessing,
despite being responsible for:

Major attacks included the Rome and Vienna airports in December 1985
Neve Shalom synagogue in Istanbul
Pan Am Flight 73 hijacking in Karachi in September 1986
The City of Poros day-excursion ship attack in Greece in July 1988

900~ KIA bodycount.

And of course, Saddam had him assassinated just before the war, to maintain
the idea that Iraq had no links to terrorism...well...no living links

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-07 10:07am

MKSheppard wrote:I'm surprised no one's brought up Abu Nidal yet.

He lived in Iraq for quite a long time with Saddam's blessing,
despite being responsible for:

Major attacks included the Rome and Vienna airports in December 1985
Neve Shalom synagogue in Istanbul
Pan Am Flight 73 hijacking in Karachi in September 1986
The City of Poros day-excursion ship attack in Greece in July 1988

900~ KIA bodycount.

And of course, Saddam had him assassinated just before the war, to maintain
the idea that Iraq had no links to terrorism...well...no living links

Orlando Bosch has been allowed to live in Florida for many years, in spite of all the innocent people he and his men have blown up, including a passenger plane over Venezuela in 1976 in which all 73 passengers were killed. Your point is?

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-07 11:21am

Elfdart wrote: Orlando Bosch has been allowed to live in Florida for many years, in spite of all the innocent people he and his men have blown up, including a passenger plane over Venezuela in 1976 in which all 73 passengers were killed. Your point is?

is that the terrorist pardoned by bush?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-10-07 12:17pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:With black hair and moustaches. I seriously think that Saddam could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he'd shaved.

Unthinkable. An Arab man's mustache is a prized symbol of masculinity. Why do you think that "A curse upon your mustache!" is such a terrible insult in Iraq?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-10-07 01:39pm

You have to go back to the accidental attack on the USS Stark in 1987 (?) to find the last time Iraq did anything to this country.

And the years of firing at US Planes patroling in and outside the No-fly zones was just comradship?

You might aurgue that its his own country and he's free to attack anyone he wants in his own country but think about that statement for a moment or two...

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-07 04:35pm

salm wrote:
Elfdart wrote: Orlando Bosch has been allowed to live in Florida for many years, in spite of all the innocent people he and his men have blown up, including a passenger plane over Venezuela in 1976 in which all 73 passengers were killed. Your point is?
is that the terrorist pardoned by bush?

Yep.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-07 04:39pm

Mr Bean wrote:
You have to go back to the accidental attack on the USS Stark in 1987 (?) to find the last time Iraq did anything to this country.
And the years of firing at US Planes patroling in and outside the No-fly zones was just comradship?

You might aurgue that its his own country and he's free to attack anyone he wants in his own country but think about that statement for a moment or two...

I mean unprovoked attacks, like the Stark. Any state is justified in using force against foreign armed forces illegally within their borders or territorial waters.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-10-07 05:21pm

Elfdart wrote: I mean unprovoked attacks, like the Stark. Any state is justified in using force against foreign armed forces illegally within their borders or territorial waters.

So you're arguing now that the UN and it's no-fly zones were illegal,
eh Elfie?

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What is the best response to this Iraq charge?

What is the best response to this Iraq charge?

Re: What is the best response to this Iraq charge?

Re: What is the best response to this Iraq charge?