Sith Lord vs Pah-wraith

[Praxis]

I just watched an episode today in which one of the wormhole aliens fought a pah-wraith on the promenade of DS9.


Rant alert:
What is it with these IDIOT Bajorans? The wormhole aliens care about Bajor a little bit, but they're obviously not *gods* and they're obviously not directing anything. The most the so-called "prophets" have done is send a few messages in a bottle (Orbs) that show the past and possible future (similar to Jedi visions? nothing mystical about it, since we know that the wormhole aliens live outside of the timestream), and save Bajor from getting conquered by the Federation. Is any of this worth being worshipped by the Bajorans?
Okay, so I can understand a primitive culture believing the beings that sent the orb is a god. But after they realize that the aliens in the wormhole just sent a couple orbs, and didn't care especially about Bajor, or know much about humans, and the only really thing they had done with Bajor was lock away a few Pah-wraith's there...why don't they realize the "Prophets" are just friendly neighbors that help out once in a while? Oh yes, I remember. They're a BUNCH OF STUBBORN IDIOTS, and call their absolute stupidity and ignorance of the facts and stubbornness..."faith". FAITH IS NOT IGNORING FACTS! Geez. The stupid Bajorans deserve to get wiped out for their sheer stubbornness. Think about it. Your next door neighbor is a lot stronger than you, and he saves you from a robber, and sends you a couple emails. Do you worship him as a god? NO. But the Bajorans worship a bunch of wormhole aliens that don't really care about their religion (note how the alien completely ignored the Bajoran religious leaders, and the praying psychopaths on the promenade). I can't stand it when they sit their obsessing over their religion. That idiot Kai said they have to have faith that the "prophet" WILL win, yet even the wormhole aliens had said themselves they didn't know who would win. And all these stupid bajorans sat around praying like idiots, when the station is about to be destroyed and the Wormhole Alien they're praying to OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about their prayers...agh. I can't stand Bajorans.

---End Rant---



There. Anyway...Imagine this scenario:



After the Dominion War, the Pah-wraiths manage to break out of their little prison and wreak havoc on the galaxy. They take over DS9 and fire the chroniton beam at the wormhole, killing all the wormhole aliens/so-called prophets. Then for revenge, they wipe out the entire planet Bajor and their idiotic Vedeks (yay!).

Then they run around wiping out Federation planets and slaughtering people for fun. After the death of the wormhole aliens, Sisko is freed from the wormhole and materializes on DS9, where he contacts the Federation and tells them to use the deflectors on ships to fire chronitons. They start killing Pah-wraiths, so the surviving Pah-wraiths leave the Federation and go through the wormhole to the Dominion, where they destroy the founders. After more rampaging, Q gets annoyed that they're killing all his playtoys and banishes the surviving Pah-wraiths to another galaxy. They end up on Coruscant, in the Emperor's palace. They start to realize that the entire galaxy is ruled by one man, and one of the wraiths goes straight to the Emperor's chamber and attacks him (attempting to control him).


Who wins? Palpatine at his height, or a Pah-wraith?

And secondly, if Palpatine wins, and the rest of the Pah-wraiths attack him, could he win?

[Praxis]

One thing that struck me- what if the Wormhole Aliens (and Pah-wraiths, since they're basicly evil wormhole aliens) are just beings of force energy, similar to, say, Exar Kun?

I noticed they were a lot more effective in battling when they channelled their energy through a human body (much like Exar Kun used Streen).

I also noticed that they had several force-like abilities, such as:
1) Those energy bursts looked like force lightning
2) The one controlling Jake waved his hand like a Jedi and sent Sisko flying through the air like a force push

[Kurgan]

The prophets did make a Dominion invasion fleet "disappear" but granted, this was long after the war was well underway, and the Bajorans had been worshipping them all this time with blind faith.

I always thought that the Bajorans in DS9 were an attempt to get away from the anti-religion bias of Roddenberry and try to show the "positive side." Though they were constantly showing the corrupt side of this fictional religion with Kai Win and the occasional fanatic. If DS9 (and later Voyager) taught me anything it's that in Trek, religious people can be okay, as long as they're liberals. Though until Voyager, they were all non-human (implying that human beings are above religion, something I'm sure Picard would agree with). So it was a mixed bag, but a little more interesting than the "false god of the week" from TOS & TNG.

[Praxis]

The prophets did make a Dominion invasion fleet "disappear" but granted, this was long after the war was well underway, and the Bajorans had been worshipping them all this time with blind faith.

They made the Dominion invasion fleet disappear WITHIN the wormhole. However, outside the wormhole they seemed much more limited. Not only that, but they seem to exist in normal time.
I think that when they leave the wormhole (which they rarely do) they exist in normal time, and when they reenter the wormhole they return to nonlinear existance.

The question is, outside the wormhole, could they kill a Sith?

[General Zod]

They made the Dominion invasion fleet disappear WITHIN the wormhole. However, outside the wormhole they seemed much more limited. Not only that, but they seem to exist in normal time.
I think that when they leave the wormhole (which they rarely do) they exist in normal time, and when they reenter the wormhole they return to nonlinear existance.

The question is, outside the wormhole, could they kill a Sith?

they seem to require host bodies in order to actually be able to do anything outside the wormhole. (note they sought out hosts before attempting to fight on the station). Given that at their highest level of power output, when the pah wraith was fighting the prophet on DS9, they were actively shaking apart the station, but not quite at the point of blowing it up . . .theywould probably be able to overcome a sith who had no exceptional training, but someone like exar kun or palpatine they would have difficulty with.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, especially uber-wank EU Palpy. ; )

[Gustav32Vasa]

and save Bajor from getting conquered by the Federation.

UFP conquering Bajor?

[Ender]

The prophets did make a Dominion invasion fleet "disappear" but granted, this was long after the war was well underway, and the Bajorans had been worshipping them all this time with blind faith.

Destroying something inside a wormhole is not that big a trick. remember, a wormhole is basically 2 connected singularities, and there is only a small safe path, otherwise you hit the singularity or its surrounding disc and get cooked. All they had to do was alter things a little bit and natural physics do the rest.

[Praxis]

and save Bajor from getting conquered by the Federation.

UFP conquering Bajor?

Whoops I meant Dominion. Can a mod edit that?

[Praxis]

The prophets did make a Dominion invasion fleet "disappear" but granted, this was long after the war was well underway, and the Bajorans had been worshipping them all this time with blind faith.

Destroying something inside a wormhole is not that big a trick. remember, a wormhole is basically 2 connected singularities, and there is only a small safe path, otherwise you hit the singularity or its surrounding disc and get cooked. All they had to do was alter things a little bit and natural physics do the rest.

Disrupt the wormhole for a split second and it'd probably be easy to make the Dominion fleet drop out of the wormhole about halfway in between the two points In 40 years the Dominion fleet will probably arrive on target...LOL

[Chris OFarrell]

Or even better, if the Pa-Wraith infused the Sith Lord and they went out together to cause damage

[Praxis]

Or even better, if the Pa-Wraith infused the Sith Lord and they went out together to cause damage

Actually, I was thinking about doing this in my fanfic, and wiping out all the 'good' wormhole aliens and making Sisko cry over it (Muwahaha!). What kind of power would a Sith Lord combined with a Pah-wraith have?

[ANGELUS]

Rant alert:
What is it with these IDIOT Bajorans? The wormhole aliens care about Bajor a little bit, but they're obviously not *gods* and they're obviously not directing anything. The most the so-called "prophets" have done is send a few messages in a bottle (Orbs) that show the past and possible future (similar to Jedi visions? nothing mystical about it, since we know that the wormhole aliens live outside of the timestream), and save Bajor from getting conquered by the Federation. Is any of this worth being worshipped by the Bajorans?
Okay, so I can understand a primitive culture believing the beings that sent the orb is a god. But after they realize that the aliens in the wormhole just sent a couple orbs, and didn't care especially about Bajor, or know much about humans, and the only really thing they had done with Bajor was lock away a few Pah-wraith's there...why don't they realize the "Prophets" are just friendly neighbors that help out once in a while? Oh yes, I remember. They're a BUNCH OF STUBBORN IDIOTS, and call their absolute stupidity and ignorance of the facts and stubbornness..."faith". FAITH IS NOT IGNORING FACTS! Geez. The stupid Bajorans deserve to get wiped out for their sheer stubbornness. Think about it. Your next door neighbor is a lot stronger than you, and he saves you from a robber, and sends you a couple emails. Do you worship him as a god? NO. But the Bajorans worship a bunch of wormhole aliens that don't really care about their religion (note how the alien completely ignored the Bajoran religious leaders, and the praying psychopaths on the promenade). I can't stand it when they sit their obsessing over their religion. That idiot Kai said they have to have faith that the "prophet" WILL win, yet even the wormhole aliens had said themselves they didn't know who would win. And all these stupid bajorans sat around praying like idiots, when the station is about to be destroyed and the Wormhole Alien they're praying to OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about their prayers...agh. I can't stand Bajorans.

Well, you see, when peole have been worshiping someone for thousands of years, it's very hard to stop doing it. They've been taught to worship these creatures for thousands of generations, so it's not simply a matter of "ok, they're aliens, let's not worship them anymore". I don't know if any of you guys have a relligion, but if you do... what if you suddenly discovered that your god is not a really a god but an alien? (Jusus Christ, Buda, etc.). Of course they are ignorant, people is ignorat everywhere. I have the feeling that something a lot like that would happen here on earth under the same circumstances. Relligious faith is very difficult thing to handle.

[NecronLord]

and the Wormhole Alien they're praying to OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about their prayers...agh. I can't stand Bajorans.

To be fair, it might have cared under normal circumstances, but been a bit busy preparing itself and its host for the coming confrontation.

[Utah Jak]

Or even better, if the Pa-Wraith infused the Sith Lord and they went out together to cause damage

Actually, I was thinking about doing this in my fanfic, and wiping out all the 'good' wormhole aliens and making Sisko cry over it (Muwahaha!). What kind of power would a Sith Lord combined with a Pah-wraith have?

That would be a scary SOB. Praxis, that fanfic idea is really good. You should run with it.

[Praxis]

and the Wormhole Alien they're praying to OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about their prayers...agh. I can't stand Bajorans.

To be fair, it might have cared under normal circumstances, but been a bit busy preparing itself and its host for the coming confrontation.

And they did nothing to stop the slaughter and force labor of millions of bajorans during the Cardy occupation... and they told Sisko themselves that they didn't care about Bajor- he had to CONVINCE them to save Bajor, and they only did it for him, since he was the one who explained Linear existance to them.

Recall the episode where Dukat led the Pah-wraith cult? He was able to convince quite a number of Bajorans that the "prophets" didn't care about Bajor, by proving that they NEVER EVER ONCE came to the aid of the Bajorans.

[Praxis]

Or even better, if the Pa-Wraith infused the Sith Lord and they went out together to cause damage

Actually, I was thinking about doing this in my fanfic, and wiping out all the 'good' wormhole aliens and making Sisko cry over it (Muwahaha!). What kind of power would a Sith Lord combined with a Pah-wraith have?

That would be a scary SOB. Praxis, that fanfic idea is really good. You should run with it.

This'll be fun...

I'm gonna have to think about what kind of abilities a Sith Lord/Pah-Wraith would have.
Oh, another possible plot twist that struck me: What would Star Wars be like in the alternate universe?

[NecronLord]

And they did nothing to stop the slaughter and force labor of millions of bajorans during the Cardy occupation... and they told Sisko themselves that they didn't care about Bajor- he had to CONVINCE them to save Bajor, and they only did it for him, since he was the one who explained Linear existance to them.

Assuming they knew enough about the situation to care.

Recall the episode where Dukat led the Pah-wraith cult? He was able to convince quite a number of Bajorans that the "prophets" didn't care about Bajor, by proving that they NEVER EVER ONCE came to the aid of the Bajorans.

They never did, and they probably didn't. Whether or not said prophet would have given a flying fuck about the guys on the promonade praying to it under normal circumstances is something we can't speak to. I never said they were useful gods, merely that the one preparing to fight Kosst Amojan was a bit distracted...

[Equinox2003]

A Sith can beat a pah wraith anytime. After all the Sith have the force,
while pah wraiths can direct microwave energy..the same energy we use
to cook food with! Not a close match if you ask me.
(The pah wriath microwave enrgy is taken from the DS9 books Millenium
series.)

[NecronLord]

A Sith can beat a pah wraith anytime. After all the Sith have the force,
while pah wraiths can direct microwave energy..the same energy we use
to cook food with! Not a close match if you ask me.
(The pah wriath microwave enrgy is taken from the DS9 books Millenium
series.)

A plot device shoots 1e50J of microwaves at Palpatine over half a second. What happens?

And you do know that Star Trek books are as canon as something I scrawled on the paper I just blew my nose on, yes?

[Equinox2003]

Trek book are not cannon...my bad...I forgot those do not count.

[Eleas]

A Sith can beat a pah wraith anytime. After all the Sith have the force,
while pah wraiths can direct microwave energy..the same energy we use
to cook food with! Not a close match if you ask me.
(The pah wriath microwave enrgy is taken from the DS9 books Millenium
series.)

This is the "lasers won't penetrate navigational deflectors" argument, in reverse.