Presidential Debate II Comment Thread

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-08 11:02pm

Joe wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Joe wrote:I don't know what Hillary thinks of all this. If Kerry wins, her chance to be President may be gone.
I thought she didnt want to be president?
Nope. There's no way she doesn't want to be President.

Based on what, exactly? The voices in your head, Faux News' Truth Squad, or the Tequila worm?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-08 11:02pm

jegs2 wrote:
The Dark wrote:And now the Fox News commentators sound depressed because Bush didn't whup Kerry. "Fair and balanced" my ass.
Why are you watching Fox News?

Why do people watch the two-headed midgets at the circus?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-10-08 11:03pm

Good God. When we saw Bush fight with the Moderator for the debates, we all knew that was the end for Bush.

And I like how, when he was talking about who would get the Tax cuts (Kerry that is), he remarked that only three people in the room would be hurt by it. Bush, Kerry, and Charlie. The fact that Kerry's willing to take a hit for the People TM, even with how little it'll hurt him, also struck a chord with us.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-08 11:04pm

Iceberg wrote:Why do people insist that this whole thing is a secret plot to get Hillary in the white house? Am I missing something, or am I just not capable of thinking in conservative?

You need to have a lobotomy first, lad.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-10-08 11:05pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:I thought she didnt want to be president?

Heh, heh... <cough> heh heh,

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Okay, okay, <cough> better now... Hillary doesn't wanna be Pres...

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

<Cough>, heh, heh...

Sorry, but that was just reflex. Really, good joke though...

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-10-08 11:05pm

I loved it when Hillary said "I wanted to make sure everyone on FOX knows he's [Bill Clinton] making a full recovery."

Another bitchslapping of those mouth-breathers!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-10-08 11:06pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:And I like how, when he was talking about who would get the Tax cuts (Kerry that is), he remarked that only three people in the room would be hurt by it. Bush, Kerry, and Charlie. The fact that Kerry's willing to take a hit for the People TM, even with how little it'll hurt him, also struck a chord with us.

Ah. I just caught the part from three people on, not what it was about (I was typing during that). That really was a good way of putting it.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-08 11:06pm

jegs2 wrote:Holy smoke, Hillary on Fox News!

But she's on CNN right now. One must be an android.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-10-08 11:07pm

Online Polls as to who won:

CNN: Kerry- 83% Bush- 16% Reporting- 31,847
MSNBC: Kerry- 76% Bush- 24% Reporting- 32,0229
Fox News: Kerry- 70% Bush- 30% Reporting- 14,712

Guess who won?

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2004-10-08 11:08pm

jegs2 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:I thought she didnt want to be president?
heh, heh...

Sorry, but that was just reflex. Really, good joke though...

So, I take it she want to be president.

Has she any chanse? How many here would vote for her?

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2004-10-08 11:10pm

We shouldn't be so quick to equate Bush's not-so-traditional debating skills with not winning the debate. The average American doesn't really care about rules and what not. What they do care about is passion, having passion in what you believe and tonight, I personally thought Bush showed more passion tonight, even though that passion may or may not hold merit. What I see as not answering the question, shouting, and repetition, others may see as strong, decisive, and passionate. Bush might've lost the debate in terms of debating, but I'm not sure if the polls will reflect that.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-10-08 11:12pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:So, I take it she want to be president.

I'll hard-boil my left nut if she doesn't run within the next eight years.

Gustav32Vasa wrote:Has she any chanse? How many here would vote for her?

If the choice were between only Hillary and Kerry and I had a gun to my head and had to choose one, I'd vote for Kerry.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-08 11:13pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
jegs2 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:I thought she didnt want to be president?
heh, heh...

Sorry, but that was just reflex. Really, good joke though...
So, I take it she want to be president.

Has she any chanse? How many here would vote for her?

Hillary, just in herself, letting alot of just right/left political ideas aside, is an incredible polarizing person. So with such a stark split in the US right now, she can't win with out some people crossing political lines.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-10-08 11:13pm

Fire Fly wrote:We shouldn't be so quick to equate Bush's not-so-traditional debating skills with not winning the debate. The average American doesn't really care about rules and what not. What they do care about is passion, having passion in what you believe and tonight, I personally thought Bush showed more passion tonight, even though that passion may or may not hold merit. What I see as not answering the question, shouting, and repetition, others may see as strong, decisive, and passionate. Bush might've lost the debate in terms of debating, but I'm not sure if the polls will reflect that.

No. Shouting doesn't make you look passionate. It makes you look moronic.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-10-08 11:14pm

SirNitram wrote:
Joe wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: I thought she didnt want to be president?
Nope. There's no way she doesn't want to be President.
Based on what, exactly? The voices in your head, Faux News' Truth Squad, or the Tequila worm?

Lots of things. She's been trying to cast off her image as a dyed-in-the-wool leftist in the last few years - she supported the Iraq war, has cooperated with a lot of Republicans on legislation. Signs that she's trying to gear herself to be a more acceptable Presidential candidate. Dick Morris also predicts that she will run.

You can shove your snide little Faux News comment, by the way. You fucking people really do think all conservatives are mindless zombies, don't you? You don't see anyone on the right here shouting in your face about being brainwashed by Michael Moore every time someone on the left utters a thought they disagree with.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-08 11:16pm

Has she any chanse? How many here would vote for her?

I doubt the Democratic Party as it is today (who seem to be trying to please everyone at once) would want her as their candidate, because she's far too polarizing: People either love her, or they hate her guts. There doesn't seem to any middle ground in that regard. Doesn't mean she won't try and enter the primaries, however.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-08 11:17pm

Fire Fly wrote:We shouldn't be so quick to equate Bush's not-so-traditional debating skills with not winning the debate. The average American doesn't really care about rules and what not. What they do care about is passion, having passion in what you believe and tonight, I personally thought Bush showed more passion tonight, even though that passion may or may not hold merit. What I see as not answering the question, shouting, and repetition, others may see as strong, decisive, and passionate. Bush might've lost the debate in terms of debating, but I'm not sure if the polls will reflect that.

"Not-so-traditional debating skills"? Is that what you call bullying the moderator into letting you respond before he actually said you could and before he gave you the topic of response? He looks passionate, but his passion was clearly unchecked. Kerry was calm, composed and focused.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-08 11:18pm

Joe wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Joe wrote: Nope. There's no way she doesn't want to be President.
Based on what, exactly? The voices in your head, Faux News' Truth Squad, or the Tequila worm?
Lots of things. She's been trying to cast off her image as a dyed-in-the-wool leftist in the last few years - she supported the Iraq war, has cooperated with a lot of Republicans on legislation. Signs that she's trying to gear herself to be a more acceptable Presidential candidate. Dick Morris also predicts that she will run.

Or that she's becoming more centrist to secure her position. But no, she has to be out for the Presidency despite no actual evidence anywhere. Gotcha.

You can shove your snide little Faux News comment, by the way. You fucking people really do think all conservatives are mindless zombies, don't you? You don't see anyone on the right here shouting in your face about being brainwashed by Michael Moore every time someone on the left utters a thought they disagree with.

I think there are alot of drones on both sides because I'm capable of thinking fully, Joe. You just seem to be among those that regurgitate this particular line from the Drone Factory: Hillary Must Be Running, Because She's Centrist!

Well holy shit. The entire WV Democratic party must be running soon, because they're so centrist they're fucking Republicrats. This sort of bullshit justification for these theories is exactly why I mocked you, Joe.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-10-08 11:18pm

Not entirely, Joe. I don't believe my father is a mindless zombie. He and I actually get along quite well; we disagree on quite a few issues, but we do have good discussions on them.

However, the main problem with Fox News is that they bill themselves as being unbiased, when any observer can tell they aren't simply by observing what guests are invited on their shows, the political affiliations of their hosts, and their manner of treating guests of different political opinions. The truth is that they are an extremely conservative news organization attempting to pass themselves off as moderates, which is enough to annoy me.

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » 2004-10-08 11:20pm

I'll never understand the pundits. Again they're leaning Bush as the winner at least from the bits I've seen while the VAST majority of their viewers hitting the polls are overwhelmingly seeing this for Kerry.

I HATED that, AGAIN, Bush never waited for the moderator to offer the 30 second final comment, he just started talking.

It really turned me off when he jumped in Charlie's face. I also think Kerry won over a TON of people on his answer to that woman who was clearly Pro Life. That was an incredible turn around. Here's he's facing a person who he disagrees with and lays out, flawlessly, why as President he was to govern for a nation instead of for his own personal view. The President's response? The way I heard it was it was all about his opinion and to hell with everyone else.

I also think Kerry nailed Bush with the response regarding his voting on partial birth abortion parental consent checks and balances.

Same story with appointing Supreme Court justices. Major Kerry win there.

Same story on drugs in Canada. What a complete bunch of nothing the President put forth.... "I didn't block it" Oh really?

Kerry did bug me in a number of areas where he really should have flattened the President on some issues and then failed to find the stake to drive home. That seems to be his biggest weakness. Bush isn't any good at that either, thankfully.

BTW, WTH was that whole bit about $84 and a timber company????

Unless I'm completely wrong here, I think we're going to see the beginning of the end here for this administration. Bush needed a real, definitive victory tonight and even if you don't agree with me on Kerry's positive showing, the President certainly didn't get that tonight.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-10-08 11:24pm

Agrajag wrote: BTW, WTH was that whole bit about $84 and a timber company????

I believe that in 2001, Bush got some income, in that amount from a timber company. That apparently is enough to make him a small business owner, according to the definition used in the Bush ad where it is claimed that Kerry proposes raising taxes on 900,000 small business owners.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-10-08 11:25pm

Most here already possess a seething hatred for Bush, so the opinions will necessarily reflect each and every fault, perceived or otherwise, displayed by Bush. Watched most of the commentary here and on other boards, and while some of the other boards were more or lessed balanced in their commentary, this one was decidedly anti-Bush, rarely a negative thing being said of Kerry. Still, it was entertaining to watch.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-08 11:26pm

Kerry knew exactly how to fluster Bush and throw him off balance. Notice how Kerry addressed Bush to his face. Bush is a guy who surrounds himself with "Yes" men, and when someone has the temerity to question him to his face, he gets pissed and loses his composure. Kerry's debate strategy paid off big time.

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-10-08 11:27pm

Durandal wrote:
jegs2 wrote:Holy smoke, Hillary on Fox News!
But she's on CNN right now. One must be an android.

If the Hilary-droid was on the ticket, I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.

I only caught the last half hour of this debate, but I thought Kerry did well and that Bush (thankfully) was more polite than last time. He still used his old catch-phrases way too often and his jokes were SO LAME!

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-08 11:28pm

I concur with Jegs.

I agree that Kerry won a strong victory in this debate, but I disagree that his pro-choice and judicial arguments were very important elements. I do, however, admit to thinking of SD.net when Kerry made the, "I will not subject others to my own religious points of view," spiel.