Sorry if this seems like a no-brainer, but I'm having a discussion with some folks about the nature of the Jedi.
Can you summurize the arguments for and against the Jedi being "military" or "soldiers"?
I haven't read the NJO but any info from there would be appreciated. I figure AOTC alone would prove that the Jedi have a military role (and not just in an advisorship position).
Links and sources also appreciated.
PS: I realize this smacks of the "Is the Federation Socialist" and "Is Starfleet Military" things, but it's not obvious to some people!
Thanks in advance...
Are Jedi Military? Are they "Soldiers"?
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Spanky The Dolphin
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Re: Are Jedi Military? Are they "Soldiers"?
NO, the Jedi are not soldiers, at least not in the common sense. However, Jedi are not forbidden to join the military.Kurgan wrote:Sorry if this seems like a no-brainer, but I'm having a discussion with some folks about the nature of the Jedi.
Can you summurize the arguments for and against the Jedi being "military" or "soldiers"?
I haven't read the NJO but any info from there would be appreciated. I figure AOTC alone would prove that the Jedi have a military role (and not just in an advisorship position).
Links and sources also appreciated.
PS: I realize this smacks of the "Is the Federation Socialist" and "Is Starfleet Military" things, but it's not obvious to some people!
Thanks in advance...
Kenth Hamner and Jaina Solo both joined the New Republic Military, as did a number of the Jedi in AOTC. The Pre-Empire Jedi were a lot more active in defending the NR, basicly as either elite ground troops/rescue force (AOTC), or as specialist, carrying out secret missions that normal men wouldn't survive, or leading forces into battle (Clone Wars cartoon- Anakin led the space battle and Obi-wan the ground battle in one episode, and in another a Jedi led the assualt on Mon Calamari).
The Jedi basicly were diplomats, generals, and in some cases, elite commandos.
The New Republic Jedi have been wussified by Luke. He felt that they shouldn't attack the enemy directly or they'd be acting 'out of the dark side'.
He was so obsessed with the Dark Side he let the Vong stomp all over the NR. The Jedi only defended, rarely attacking, except scounting and rescue missions- the only real assualt they made was when they killed the Voxyn queen, but the Voxyn were an anti-Jedi weapon, so it was technically self defense.Some Jedi joined the military (Kenth Hamner was a general, Jaina was in Rogue Squadron), and Kyp formed a Jedi squadron and went out whooping the Vong (while Luke denounced him...sigh). Finally Luke formed a Jedi squadron, but AGAIN limited their duties to guarding convoys, rescuing people, and defending worlds, never actually HITTING the Vong.
So as I said, Jedi are allowed to join the military in all eras, and function as diplomats in all eras. The Old Republic Jedi functions also as generals and elite commandos (while the New Republic Jedi have to start as a swabbie and work their way up in the military, and Luke throws a little fit if they act as commandoes).
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Connor MacLeod
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I would've thought "we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" would've made this thread redundant in an Old Republic sense. They may have become "generals" in a way in AOTC, but that doesn't make them military.
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That's like saying police are military because some of them got called up in the National Guard.
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send in the redshirts!
Well that's a good question. In AOTC, did a couple of Jedi just go "hey guys, let's enlist in the Grand Army of the Republic!" or was it like Palpatine says, okay, we need 50 Jedi as generals to lead our attack teams, blah blah blah and just assigned them?
I wonder how much independance they had. In the NR the Jedi seem to be pretty independant. They help the NR out because they are such nice guys. ; ) In the OR it seems more like they are an arm of the government and have to follow orders.
There are 10,000 Jedi, I wouldn't expect them ALL to be fighting in the Clone Wars (even younglings?), but just how many of the Jedi were out there in the battles, do we have any idea? Still, their powers and combat abilities would make them very valuable and you'd think they'd take advantage of every one they could.
PS: Are members of the National Guard soldiers? (I don't mean that sarcastically, just maybe I'm mistaken thinking they were)
I wonder how much independance they had. In the NR the Jedi seem to be pretty independant. They help the NR out because they are such nice guys. ; ) In the OR it seems more like they are an arm of the government and have to follow orders.
There are 10,000 Jedi, I wouldn't expect them ALL to be fighting in the Clone Wars (even younglings?), but just how many of the Jedi were out there in the battles, do we have any idea? Still, their powers and combat abilities would make them very valuable and you'd think they'd take advantage of every one they could.
PS: Are members of the National Guard soldiers? (I don't mean that sarcastically, just maybe I'm mistaken thinking they were)
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
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I don't know, when I watched AOTC (the club scene where Obi-Wan & Anakin was seaching for Zam Wessel), I got the impression that the Jedi is some sort of police force. Remember when Anakin said, "Easy... Jedi business. Go back to your drinks." after Obi-Wan cutting Zam's arm? Sounds like FBI, you know.
Besides, from early fight on Geonosis, I got impression that the Jedi were not expecting full-scale military battle. It's more like a police arrest against some kind of heavily-armed mobsters. It seems they didn't prepared for the scale of forces Dooku has up on his sleeve.
Besides, from early fight on Geonosis, I got impression that the Jedi were not expecting full-scale military battle. It's more like a police arrest against some kind of heavily-armed mobsters. It seems they didn't prepared for the scale of forces Dooku has up on his sleeve.
The Jedi operated under the Judical Department Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.
However, it must be noted that considering the anti-pirate missions the Judicals pulled, its obvious that the organisation has a paramilitary bent, similar to China "military police" organisation.
However, it must be noted that considering the anti-pirate missions the Judicals pulled, its obvious that the organisation has a paramilitary bent, similar to China "military police" organisation.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
To make it short, no the Jedi weren't soldiers. As GL pointed out in the ESB DVD commentary, the Jedi protected the old Republic, not the military. As the Republic had no external or internal enemies (perhaps someone more versed in EU than me can correct me) until Darth Sidious played on the social unrest and with the help of Dooku, instigated the Separatist movement in his bid to take control of the Republic. Alas, there was no need for a single Republic military before this (of course, individual member systems had their own defense forces, as well as some of the corporate entities). The Jedi served as mediators and peacekeepers. During the Clone Wars, the senior(?) Jedi was given the rank general, why that happened is still unknown, but my idea is that they were given the title for two reasons: as a sign of gratitude for all the service the Jedi had done for the Republic and to keep the Jedi from becoming irrelevant in the new age of the military (and not to forget their tactical skill). Of course, this could also be some sort of elaborate setup that Palpatine has orchestrated in order to blame the Jedi for something.
Oh, this didn't become short after all...
In NJO the situation has changed. There is also a short story, Ylesia by Walter Jon Williams (available as e-book download for HS members on the Official Site) where the conflict between the new Jedi and the New Republic military is covered.
Oh, this didn't become short after all...
In NJO the situation has changed. There is also a short story, Ylesia by Walter Jon Williams (available as e-book download for HS members on the Official Site) where the conflict between the new Jedi and the New Republic military is covered.