Memorial held for submariner

[Aaron]

OTTAWA - Family members, politicians and military brass held a ceremony for Lieut. Chris Saunders in Halifax Sunday afternoon, after the submariner's body arrived from Ireland.

Saunders family at the Halifax airport Sunday.(CBC photo: Stephen Puddicombe

Most of his surviving crew members finally reached shore a few hours earlier, as tugs pulled HMCS Chicoutimi to the docks in Faslane, Scotland.

The submariners had been tossed in the North Atlantic since the vessel lost power after a fire broke out Tuesday.

Saunders, who died of smoke inhalation, was flown from Sligo, Ireland, to Halifax International Airport, where he arrived at about 2:30 p.m. EST.

About 15 members of his family, including his widow and two young children, Prime Minister Paul Martin, Defence Minister Bill Graham, the federal opposition leaders and military officials held a brief ceremony at the airport.

A full military funeral will be held in Halifax Wednesday, as the family requested.

A few hours earlier, an Irish coroner confirmed that Saunders died from inhaling hot gases.

When Chicoutimi arrived in port, its remaining crew members – 53 in total – were quickly hustled away by military officials. Vice-Admiral Bruce MacLean, Commander of the Canadian Navy, was on hand to greet them.

The navy said they were served Thanksgiving dinner at sea earlier in the day.

Two other sailors who have been in an Irish hospital are improving, officials said Saturday. Master Seaman Archibald MacMaster, 41, is in serious but stable condition, while Petty Officer 2nd Class Denis Lafleur, also 41, may leave the hospital Monday.


Canadian naval officers have started arriving in Scotland to hold a formal board of inquiry, similar to a coroner's inquest. They will try to determine why Saunders, 32, died and what caused the major fire that forced the sub to shut down its engines.

A toast, "Absent friends".

Another pointless death that can be chalked up to Liberal cost-cutting.

[dr. what]

Amen to that.

[Darth Wong]

My condolences to his family, but the accusation that this shipboard fire was caused by Liberal cost-cutting is rather premature. There has been no inquiry into the cause of this fire as of yet, so we are leaping to conclusions based entirely on speculation. It's not as if a shipboard fire is inconceivable on a functional submarine.

[Sea Skimmer]

Decenmtly maintained diesels submarines for quite a few navies have outright sank more the once as a result of fires Really, one man dead and two badly injured, which tragic, isn't that bad for what would seem to have been a very serious fire. The very cramped spaces and poor ventilation, particularly if you have to shut down the engines, which normally can serve to ventilate the boat when running on the surface very effectively, makes casualties very likely.

[Aaron]

My condolences to his family, but the accusation that this shipboard fire was caused by Liberal cost-cutting is rather premature. There has been no inquiry into the cause of this fire as of yet, so we are leaping to conclusions based entirely on speculation. It's not as if a shipboard fire is inconceivable on a functional submarine.

If this was an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However these subs have been problematic from the beginning. Discounting the dent in the hull of one of them, this makes at least the 3rd incident that I know of, the other two being floodings. Which aside from potentially sinking the boat can produce deadly chlorine gas if seawater comes into contact with the batteries. Frankly I'm thinking that we would have been better off buying new.

[Sea Skimmer]

If this was an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However these subs have been problematic from the beginning.

That's nice, it still doesn't mean this fire was the result of cost cutting. Accidents happen, the military is dangerous. For example, prior to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military was losing about a thousand men and women a year from accidents in the course of duty. And that's ah uge improvment from the Korean war when the US military had some 20,000 men killed in accidents, not counting those killed by accidents within Korea.

Discounting the dent in the hull of one of them, this makes at least the 3rd incident that I know of, the other two being floodings. Which aside from potentially sinking the boat can produce deadly chlorine gas if seawater comes into contact with the batteries.

The only flooding they've ever suffered was from leaking torpedo tube doors I believe, and that is a problem, which has plagued a long list of submarines. The extreme temperature differences, not to mention rather corrosive nature of salt water, can make getting a decent seal that will hold up a matter of a lot of trial and error quite often.

Frankly I'm thinking that we would have been better off buying new.

If they really have cost a billion dollars so far in repairs and the original lease price then that might have been a better option. But when it came to make that decision to lease them that wasn't apparent, and the cost paid for the lease would have bought perhaps a single new built SSK, which would have taken several years to build.

[Aaron]

That's nice, it still doesn't mean this fire was the result of cost cutting. Accidents happen, the military is dangerous. For example, prior to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military was losing about a thousand men and women a year from accidents in the course of duty. And that's ah uge improvment from the Korean war when the US military had some 20,000 men killed in accidents, not counting those killed by accidents within Korea.

I guess we won't know the cause of the fire until the investigation is done. I'm hoping that it has nothing to do with the second-hand nature of the subs. I want to believe that there fine, but when you've seen as much cost cutting and stupidity in the CF as I have it's hard to believe.

There's no need to remind me how dangerous the military is. I was nearly killed in an accident during a training exercise and my buddy was killed. As for the USA losing a 1000 troops a year, what the hell is happening? That seems rather excessive.

The only flooding they've ever suffered was from leaking torpedo tube doors I believe, and that is a problem, which has plagued a long list of submarines. The extreme temperature differences, not to mention rather corrosive nature of salt water, can make getting a decent seal that will hold up a matter of a lot of trial and error quite often.

Actually there's been at least two floodings. The torpedo tubes and a flare launcher have leaked. I can understand that the subs have been in mothballs and there's bound to be some bugs to work out. It's just that this stuff is constant within the CF.

If they really have cost a billion dollars so far in repairs and the original lease price then that might have been a better option. But when it came to make that decision to lease them that wasn't apparent, and the cost paid for the lease would have bought perhaps a single new built SSK, which would have taken several years to build.

I am unsure of the original price. But Ma Duece has stated that the price is over 1 Billion dollars now. So maybe we could have bought 2 new SSK's. In this case the governments decision to buy used would seem to be correct, given our limited budget.

I just want the best for my comrades and I'm sick of this shit constantly happening. Perhaps it's best that I stop following the military now that I'm retired.

[Darth Wong]

There's no need to remind me how dangerous the military is. I was nearly killed in an accident during a training exercise and my buddy was killed. As for the USA losing a 1000 troops a year, what the hell is happening? That seems rather excessive.

I would imagine it's due to the sheer size of their military and the number of exercises that they must conduct every year. A fire aboard a submarine which killed one man and injured two others probably wouldn't even rate the front page of the newspaper in the US.

[Aaron]

I would imagine it's due to the sheer size of their military and the number of exercises that they must conduct every year. A fire aboard a submarine which killed one man and injured two others probably wouldn't even rate the front page of the newspaper in the US.

Most likely not. Given that we have less than 60,000 personal in all branchs, losing even 1 man is a big deal. But given that they have somewhere around 1 million than 1000 a year doesn't seem to bad in context.

[Sea Skimmer]

There's no need to remind me how dangerous the military is. I was nearly killed in an accident during a training exercise and my buddy was killed. As for the USA losing a 1000 troops a year, what the hell is happening? That seems rather excessive.

Well I'm not completely sure of that number, but I've seen it repeated enough by sources I trust to believe it. A lot of it is apparently traffic accident, swarms of young drivers with multi ton vehicles, and often driving those at night and often via the miracle of depth perception devoid NVG's. During Operation Desert Shield-Storm the US Army apparently recorded some 5,000 accidents, it was a huge operation of course, but that's still about one for every thousand men deployed, and most of those troops where in the open desert.

[Darth Wong]

My wife had an interesting comment about this news story just now: I asked her what she thought of it and she said "I don't know what happened. I've heard everyones' reactions to it on the news, but I don't even know how this fire happened or why."

That is precisely the problem with news today. They are more interested in reporting political accusations than facts.

[Wicked Pilot]

As for the USA losing a 1000 troops a year, what the hell is happening? That seems rather excessive.

I would speculate that the majority of those deaths come from auto accidents, with alcohol being a major player in a lot of them. In fact, during Gulf War I it was actually safer to be in the war than stateside because there was little driving, and no booze over in Saudi. This problem has become so great that in today's military, if you get just one DWI your career is basically finished.


And I too offer a toast to the fallen, but not forgotten.

[Darth Wong]

And I too offer a toast to the fallen, but not forgotten.

Indeed, we know very little about this fire but we can state with some certainty that he gave his life to put out this fire and save his shipmates, and you have to raise a glass to that.

[Robert Walper]

Indeed, we know very little about this fire but we can state with some certainty that he gave his life to put out this fire and save his shipmates, and you have to raise a glass to that.

No kidding. Here's to men and women who put the lives of others above their own.