Canadian gov't faces another possible collapse on Oct. 18

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-11 01:33am

Canadian Government Facing Confidence Vote Oct 18

Fri Oct 8,12:08 PM ET

By David Ljunggren

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's minority Liberal government, fresh from narrowly staving off a possible defeat in Parliament, set itself up on Friday for a new clash with opposition parties by announcing a confidence vote on Oct. 18.

Legislators will be voting on an opposition motion to amend the government's agenda, which Prime Minister Paul Martin unveiled on Tuesday in the so-called Speech from the Throne.

The government says it cannot allow the main thrust of its plans to be challenged while the opposition accuses the Liberals of arrogance and inflexibility.

"The ... vote has certainly traditionally been a vote of confidence," said Tony Valeri, the minister in charge of pushing the government's agenda through parliament.

"I think everybody is under the same understanding that the Oct. 18 vote -- which is the main amendment to the Speech from the Throne -- -- would be considered as such," he told reporters. The Liberals won only 135 of the 308 seats in the House of Commons lower chamber in June's federal election.

The official opposition Conservative Party reacted angrily to Valeri's comments.

"That's brinkmanship and they're playing a dangerous game," senior party member Jay Hill told Reuters.

Legislators are due to vote on the Speech from the Throne as a whole on Oct. 20. While most political observers think the opposition wants to flex its muscles rather than defeating Martin at this early stage, the angry exchanges pose questions over the fate of next February's budget.

"Hopefully we won't have a serious hurdle to overcome, at least not until the budget in February," said Hill. The government would collapse if the budget was voted down.

Parliament had been due to vote on another opposition amendment on Thursday which the Liberals also said they would treat as a motion of confidence. At the last moment Martin and the two main opposition leaders agreed to changes to the amendment which was then adopted unanimously without a vote.

Valeri said he would be talking to his counterparts in other parties in the run-up to the Oct. 18 vote to see whether they could reach a compromise.

"I certainly don't expect -- and would not want to be going through -- the events of last evening each and every time," he said. "I think we can work quite collaboratively together ... What's very clear is that brinkmanship and rhetoric and high drama don't work."

Valeri said the government would introduce a large number of bills into Parliament but admitted it was unlikely they would all become law in their original form.

But he added: "No opposition party has a mandate to obstruct and prevent the government from governing and I don't expect that will be the case."

(With additional reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa)

Post by **weemadando** » 2004-10-11 01:38am

Has someone spiked the waters of the democratic world with a election-causing drug or something? How many is that in the past few months and up until the end of the year?

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2004-10-11 01:46am

Pardon my ignorance, but I am not Canadian, can somebody tell me
what happens if this vote of confidence takes place and the supporters
get what they are after? What happens to Prime Minister Martin then?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-11 02:06am

Equinox2003 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but I am not Canadian, can somebody tell me
what happens if this vote of confidence takes place and the supporters
get what they are after? What happens to Prime Minister Martin then?

If the confidence vote fails for Martin's governement, then Canada will have another federal election...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-11 02:25am

Ma Deuce wrote:If the confidence vote fails for Martin's governement, then Canada will have another federal election...

At a cost of $200 million, and there's no way to tell how it will turn. People might be angry at the opposition parties for demanding ridiculous amendments to the government's direction and toppling the government in their zeal to get them, or they might be angry at the Liberals for believing that the job of an opposition party is to let a minority government act as though it has a majority.

The worrying thing here is that an election would hinge upon these issues and not the issues of national policy which shaped the last election.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-11 02:39am

Equinox2003 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but I am not Canadian, can somebody tell me
what happens if this vote of confidence takes place and the supporters
get what they are after? What happens to Prime Minister Martin then?

If the government was to lose, the prime minister would ask Governor General Adrienne Clarkson to call an election. Clarkson would then either do so or ask Harper to try to form a government.

Harper is leader of the Conservatives--they only have 99 seats (Liberals have 134) --so forming any kind of coherent and/or stable coalition with other parties will be difficult, if not impossible. The Bloc Quebecois have 54 seats and could, theoretically, join forces with the Conservatives to form a majority (which is what is happening with this no-confidence vote). But this spirit of comraderie will be short-lived as they really don't like each other very much--they just hate the Liberals more (at least for the moment). The NDP has 19 seats and the Liberals need them to survive. There's one independent in the mix --he used to be a Conservative but has split from the party officially. He literally holds the balance of power because the Liberal-NDP coalition have 153 seats and the Conservative-Bloc have 153 seats as well. The speaker of the house is a Liberal--but he can only vote if the vote is tied--and the independent guy is the wild card in the mix.

So if there's a vote and the ind. guy votes with the Con-Bloc, they'll get 154 and the liberal-ndp get 153 --and our liberal friend Mr. Speaker won't be able to vote cause he can only vote when the vote is tied....

Worse case scenario--another election is called and we have to go through the whole dreary mess all over again. Thankfully they are required to have the whole thing over and done with fairly quickly (i.e. 1-2 months)

It's going to be like this for however long Martin can keep it together

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2004-10-11 02:52am

Equinox2003 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but I am not Canadian, can somebody tell me
what happens if this vote of confidence takes place and the supporters
get what they are after? What happens to Prime Minister Martin then?

The Governor-General will ask if the Official Opposition can form a government. Mathematical, possibly. Practically, not. If Harper says he can't, then a new election will be called.

Most of this issue is due to politiking on both sides - the Libs and Conservatives (can't really call them Tories anymore).

The libs have made the issue an "issue of confidence" - discretionary. The Conservatives and Bloc have threatened to amend the throne speech. Essentially, it is a giant game of chicken - neither side really wants to or can really afford to go back the electorate at this point - they lack money and who the voters will be more pissed off at is sheer guesswork. We might end up with the Rhinos as the next party in power (thisere a "joke" party ) as a "none of the above" answer.

Call it politicians being politicians - the country be damned.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-11 03:14am

Pity that the rhino party is no more.

Man--those guys were always good for a good laugh. You have to admire a party that promised to pave Manitoba thus creating the world's largest parking lot and pledged to tear down the Rocky Mountains so people in Alberta could see the sun setting over the Pacific Ocean, and to sell the Senate at an antique action.

Now those are useful suggestions.....

Hey--hopefully the Lemon Party can get themselves organized this time....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-11 03:16am

Maybe this is just the opportunity I need, in order to start up the AnalSexPorn Party!

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-11 03:20am

Darth Wong wrote:Maybe this is just the opportunity I need, in order to start up the AnalSexPorn Party!

Fuckin' A! You need a representative in Ottawa?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-11 09:41am

Darth Wong wrote:At a cost of $200 million, and there's no way to tell how it will turn. People might be angry at the opposition parties for demanding ridiculous amendments to the government's direction and toppling the government in their zeal to get them, or they might be angry at the Liberals for believing that the job of an opposition party is to let a minority government act as though it has a majority.

The worrying thing here is that an election would hinge upon these issues and not the issues of national policy which shaped the last election.

What's this ammendment all about anyways? The media doesn't seem to be willing to part with the info.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-11 11:21am

Cpl Kendall wrote: What's this ammendment all about anyways? The media doesn't seem to be willing to part with the info.

There were several amendments. The one that nearly brought the House down a few days back was something about Duceppe calling for Ottawa to respect the provinces' areas of jurisdiction and give the provinces relief from the pressures of "fiscal imbalance" – basically, the difference between Ottawa's ability to tax and the province's shortage of funds to spend on their priorities. Martin said he won't accept the BQ sub-amendment because it forces the federal government to give up control of public finances. A deal--and I haven't been able to find out any details--was reached at the last minute.

The vote on the 18th has to do with Harper's proposed amendments to the throne speech, including a call for the reduction of taxes for low-income families and a House of Commons vote on Canadian participation in the proposed U.S. ballistic missile defence shield.

Good ol' CBC comes through with the info:
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cg ... rone041006

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-11 11:47am

Harper wants to start debating specific issues by trying to insert them into the throne speech as part of the government's general platform. He's being an asshole, just like his butt-buddy in the BQ. What a surprise

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-10-11 12:41pm

Darth Wong wrote:Maybe this is just the opportunity I need, in order to start up the AnalSexPorn Party!

You're ideas interest me and I wish to learn more.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-10-11 07:31pm

I highly doubt that we'll have an election so soon after Parliament's opening. The Liberals and opposition parties are simply grandstanding in order to mark their territory. No one want's an election now, at least not until each party has recovered from all the spending from the last one and has stocked up on new funding. The earliest time at which the Martin government should really be starting to get worried is at the February budget. News nets are making a much bigger deal out of this than it really is, which is obviously because they want to get the public "excited" or interested with something as mundane as passing legislation in the Parliament.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-10-11 08:19pm

With each passing day the Marijuana Party of Canada looks that much more appealing....

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-12 12:14pm

President Sharky wrote:News nets are making a much bigger deal out of this than it really is, which is obviously because they want to get the public "excited" or interested with something as mundane as passing legislation in the Parliament.

Which reminds me, when does Parliament start? I want to catch it on CPAC. I can't wait to see the types of motions the opposition will introduce. Every vote could possibly be a vote of confidence -- a cliffhanger on every issue, especially Kyoto, Missile Defense aka Star Wars (lol), Gay Marriage, provincial rights, etc.

Yes, I watch politicians for fun. Think about it this way -- Star Wars isn't any worse or better

Brian

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2004-10-12 08:25pm

Umm, Parliament opened as of last Teusday...

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-13 12:02am

President Sharky wrote:Umm, Parliament opened as of last Teusday...

Dammit. My cable is getting hooked up tomorrow, was without cable for a week since I moved. Stupid cable people could only come between 11 and 1 pm, and only a week late.

Brian