Saudi Female Voting Rights (or the lack of them)

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Saudi Female Voting Rights (or the lack of them)

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RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Women may neither vote nor run in Saudi Arabia's first nationwide elections, the government announced Monday, dashing hopes of progressive Saudis and easing fears among conservatives that the kingdom is moving too fast on reforms.



Some women considered the move yet another indignity in a country where they need their husbands' permission to study, travel or work. But others said they wouldn't trust themselves to judge whether a candidate is more than just a handsome face.


The religious establishment had been lobbying against women's participation in the elections, diplomats said.


But an electoral official cited administrative and logistical reasons Monday for the decision to ban women from the municipal elections, scheduled to be held in three stages from Feb. 10 to April 21.


The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there are not enough women to run women's-only registration centers and polling stations, and that only a fraction of the country's women have the photo identity cards that would have been needed to vote.


Many women in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam, have balked at getting the ID cards — introduced three years ago — because the photographs would show their faces unveiled.


Saudi women have limited freedoms. Without written permission from a male guardian, they may not travel, get an education or work. Regardless of permissions, they are not allowed to drive, mix with men in public or leave home without covering themselves with black cloaks, called abayas.


The decision was first announced by Interior Minister Prince Nayef in an interview published Monday. In his terse comment to a Kuwaiti newspaper, Nayef said only: "I don't think that women's participation is possible."


His remark was the first by a named top official on the issue. It settled a question that had been occupying Saudis since the government set the date for the elections in August. When the election law was published, it did not explicitly bar women from voting, which encouraged three women to declare themselves candidates.


"I am surprised," said Nadia Bakhurji, 37, the first woman to announce she planned to run. "I was optimistic and didn't think they would ban it."


Bakhurji said she hoped Nayef and the elections committee would "rethink their decision" and show transparency by saying why women have been banned.


She said that would give women the chance to "work hand-in-hand with them to solve these problems in time for elections," said Bakhurji, an architect and a mother of two.


"My concern is if they don't bring us on board now, we will be fighting for something that should be a given right," she said.


Not all Saudi women agreed. Taking a break from shopping at the food court of a Riyadh mall, Nour Ahmed and her five female friends split evenly on the issue.


"Women are capable of voting and making the right choices," said Ahmed, a 22-year-old marketing graduate. "Why aren't men and women equal in this issue?"


"We aren't," countered her friend Sarah Muhammad. "We have so little interaction with men that we will vote with our emotions, choosing candidates for their looks and sweet talk rather than for what they can deliver."


Rima Khaled, 20, said Saudi women are not used to playing a role in public life, and many social and traditional restraints should first be removed before they can.





"What's the point of voting?" she asked. "Even if we did vote, we would go home to the men in our lives who will have the last say in whatever we do."

Saudi Arabia's only electoral experiences were some municipal polls held in a few cities in the 1960s. They did not cover the whole country, and their electoral rules and registration procedures did not conform to international standards. Women did not vote.

Registration for the new elections begins in November. Voting will start Feb. 10 around the capital, Riyadh. Voting in the eastern and southwestern regions will follow, starting March 3. Voters in northern parts of the country will go to the polls April 21.

The elections are part of the government's measured response to calls for political and social change. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy with an unelected Consultative Council, which acts like a parliament. Political parties are banned and press freedoms are limited.

The Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States spurred calls for the Saudi royal family to modernize the country's political landscape. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers involved in Sept. 11 were Saudis.
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I wonder if the Saudis realize this is the 21st century. Well I really don't wonder that, it's obviously they don't give a damn. If a Saudi woman came to the US and requested asylum, using treatment like this as a reason, would she be granted it?
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Post by Spyder »

The Bush family need to keep better tabs on their buddies.
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Post by Xenophobe3691 »

Unfortunately, everyone's skipping over the fact that the Saudis are holding elections. While I agree that not letting women vote is fucking despicable, it shows some political acuity, accidental though it may be. Since the ruling party is in only because of their alliance with Wahabbi clerics (the original Saudi king was backed mainly by those self-same clerics), I wouldn't want to antagonize them such either. Perhaps if these elections do work, they could allow women to vote come the next cycle.
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Post by salm »

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there are not enough women to run women's-only registration centers and polling stations, and that only a fraction of the country's women have the photo identity cards that would have been needed to vote.
interesting. i´ve taken part in at least six elections now and i´ve never needed a photo identity card. it´s obviously possible to have elections without photo identity cards.
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Post by Alyeska »

Spyder wrote:The Bush family need to keep better tabs on their buddies.
Ignoring the fact that the US military has completely pulled out of Saudi Arabia and we have been cutting ties with the country...
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Post by Master of Ossus »

The point is that the Saudis are actually holding elections. This is a ridiculously large reform step in the normally dictatorial country. Even if they don't allow women to vote immediately, it's still a huge step in the right direction.
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Post by Durandal »

Yes, kudos to the Saudis, who have managed to keep their women in such total ignorance that the women themselves don't believe they have the capacity to vote on anything other than good looks.

Hey folks, Saudi Arabia's oppression of women was disgusting yesterday, and it's disgusting today.

By the way, guess which dictator at least allowed women to vote in his mock elections? That's right: Saddam Hussein.
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Post by pellaeons_scion »

Isnt that because for all his 'evil' he wasn't a fundamentalist? And preferred the secular way of life?
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Post by Morilore »

What a lot of people really refuse to understand is that elections don't bring democracy unless the people value the democratic ideal that leaders are responsible to the led. We call our democracy advanced, but really, every society can be said to be democratic in that if the people don't accept it, it won't work.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Durandal wrote:Yes, kudos to the Saudis, who have managed to keep their women in such total ignorance that the women themselves don't believe they have the capacity to vote on anything other than good looks.

Hey folks, Saudi Arabia's oppression of women was disgusting yesterday, and it's disgusting today.
No duh.
By the way, guess which dictator at least allowed women to vote in his mock elections? That's right: Saddam Hussein.
Are you seriously suggesting that the upcoming Saudi elections are less representative than the ones Hussein ran?

The voting in Iraq was completely meaningless, to the point where having everyone vote was no better than allowing no one to vote.
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Post by LordShaithis »

A Muslim state is holding elections, and we didn't even have to bomb them to make it happen? w00t!
If Religion and Politics were characters on a soap opera, Religion would be the one that goes insane with jealousy over Politics' intimate relationship with Reality, and secretly murder Politics in the night, skin the corpse, and run around its apartment wearing the skin like a cape shouting "My votes now! All votes for me! Wheeee!" -- Lagmonster
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Post by Darth Wong »

Are they using Florida vote counters?
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Post by Stormbringer »

Darth Wong wrote:Are they using Florida vote counters?
No, I'd imagine they're using the Shred-o-matic 9000.
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Post by Stormbringer »

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:A Muslim state is holding elections, and we didn't even have to bomb them to make it happen? w00t!
Hardly, there are plenty of Muslim countries that hold election. Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Iran all hold elections among others. The question is whether they matter.
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Post by Durandal »

Master of Ossus wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that the upcoming Saudi elections are less representative than the ones Hussein ran?
No, I'm suggesting that Saddam Hussein was less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Durandal wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that the upcoming Saudi elections are less representative than the ones Hussein ran?
No, I'm suggesting that Saddam Hussein was less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
Why not give the vote when it does't count for shit? I think these are just pure PR sop and won't matter for shit either.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Durandal wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that the upcoming Saudi elections are less representative than the ones Hussein ran?
No, I'm suggesting that Saddam Hussein was less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
That might be true, but better examples of Saudi repression vs. Saddam's exist to show your point. For example, Saddam had several women in government roles--including ones that were in his inner-circle. Saudi Arabia has virtually none. Iraq had female scientists, scholars, and lawyers. Saudi Arabia has almost none.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Durandal wrote:No, I'm suggesting that Saddam Hussein was less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
Anyone short of Ted Bundy is less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Darth Wong wrote:
Durandal wrote:No, I'm suggesting that Saddam Hussein was less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
Anyone short of Ted Bundy is less repressive of women than Saudi Arabia.
Actually, I think even his is. After all he killed them. The Saudis make them live in hell all their lives.
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Post by AniThyng »

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:A Muslim state is holding elections, and we didn't even have to bomb them to make it happen? w00t!
and i try to believe americans are not ignorant of the outside world...
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Post by Petrosjko »

It's been said that one of the great tragedies of Islam was that Mecca and Medina were located in Saudi Arabia, one of the least progressive cultures in the area.

The fact that the two most holy cities in the religion got located in one of the most bass-ackwards states has done more to hold back such issues as secular reform than anything else, most likely.

As I'm constantly pointing out to people, not all Muslims are Arabs, and not all Arabs are Saudis. Pakistan had a woman as prime minister, for example. The 9/11 attacks were planned by Egyptians, executed by Saudis, so on and so forth.
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Post by LordShaithis »

AniThyng wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:A Muslim state is holding elections, and we didn't even have to bomb them to make it happen? w00t!
and i try to believe americans are not ignorant of the outside world...
Shut up before we bomb you, you got-damned ferener! *swills Budweiser*
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Post by The Dark »

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:
AniThyng wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:A Muslim state is holding elections, and we didn't even have to bomb them to make it happen? w00t!
and i try to believe americans are not ignorant of the outside world...
Shut up before we bomb you, you got-damned ferener! *swills Budweiser*
Not funny. Too far that time.
pellaeons_scion wrote:Isnt that because for all his 'evil' he wasn't a fundamentalist? And preferred the secular way of life?
Yeah, the Ba'ath (or Bath, or Baath, or B'ath, I've seen all four) Party was founded specifically to prevent religious fundamentalism from becoming a major political force in Iraq. John Esposito mentions it a fairly large number of times in his book The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality?, which I consider one of the best books on the threat of radicalized Islam (though it's now a bit out of date) and where the largest threats are.
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Post by BlkbrryTheGreat »

Women recieved the right to vote in the US less then 100 years ago. Blacks recieved the right to vote in all of the US, in practice, less then 50 years ago. Some peaceful progress is better then no progress. Maybe one day it'll all work out, and maybe it won't. I think its good that democracy is at least being given a chance.
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