Mosques no longer off-limits

Augustus · Post by **Augustus** » 2004-10-12 03:17pm

Linky...link...link

12-October-2004

Iraq News, Baghdad, Oct 12 (IANS) US and Iraqi forces Tuesday raided seven mosques in Ramadi, a Sunni militant stronghold some 100 km west of this Iraqi capital.

"The mosques are suspected of participating in spectrum of insurgent activity, including harbouring known terrorists, storing illegal weapons cashes, promoting violence and encouraging insurgent recruitment," Xinhua quoted a US military statement as saying.

The statement said great efforts were made to avoid risks to non-combatants and collateral damage, but angry residents accused the US forces of breaking down doors and damaging furniture inside the mosques.

Meanwhile, fierce fighting broke out in Husaiyba, some 90 km west of Baghdad, after insurgents attacked a US military patrol killing one Iraqi and destroying a US vehicle, a witness told Xinhua.

Indo-Asian News Service

So much for the LA Times bogus story about the US holding off major action in Iraq until the Nov, 2 election is over. Not the "Shep Solution" (TM) but its a step in the right direction.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-10-12 05:39pm

This isn't the first time US or Iraqi forces have searched Mosques suspected of hiding weapons or insurgents by a long shot.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-12 05:41pm

It's ridiculous to humour the idea of religious sanctuary. I have felt that for years about churches in North America, and I feel the same way about mosques.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-12 05:57pm

Darth Wong wrote:It's ridiculous to humour the idea of religious sanctuary. I have felt that for years about churches in North America, and I feel the same way about mosques.

Since when do the police respect sanctuary in North American churches? AFAIK, that concept hasn't been in practice since the 1800s at the very latest. Full-blown "go into the church and they cannot touch you under any circumstances" sanctuary hasn't been widespread since medieval times unless I've missed something.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-12 05:58pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's ridiculous to humour the idea of religious sanctuary. I have felt that for years about churches in North America, and I feel the same way about mosques.
Since when do the police respect sanctuary in North American churches? AFAIK, that concept hasn't been in practice since the 1800s at the very latest. Full-blown "go into the church and they cannot touch you under any circumstances" sanctuary hasn't been widespread since medieval times unless I've missed something.

In Quebec, convicts still hide inside churches on occasion, and the police camp outside and try to negotiate them out rather than just storming the building and taking them by force.

Of course, it does bear noting that these are, after all, French-Canadian police, not Mounties.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-10-12 06:04pm

Well, from what I've seen around here in California, the police generally storm a church or similar building only as a last resort. Of course, they do the same for houses -- they won't storm the house until they're sure that nobody besides the criminal is going to get hurt.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-12 06:26pm

Well they should hesitate to storm any building. Rushing into a confined space with a possibly dangerous criminal waiting for you when there are other alternatives isn't exactly the brightest of things to do without some other overwhelming reason why you have to get him right that minute.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-12 06:33pm

And most curches are quite valuable. Property damage is taken into consideration.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-12 06:35pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Well they should hesitate to storm any building.

I don't think you understand what I meant when I said "wait". Think of timeframes on the order of "weeks", not "hours".

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-10-12 06:51pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's ridiculous to humour the idea of religious sanctuary. I have felt that for years about churches in North America, and I feel the same way about mosques.
Since when do the police respect sanctuary in North American churches? AFAIK, that concept hasn't been in practice since the 1800s at the very latest. Full-blown "go into the church and they cannot touch you under any circumstances" sanctuary hasn't been widespread since medieval times unless I've missed something.
In Quebec, convicts still hide inside churches on occasion, and the police camp outside and try to negotiate them out rather than just storming the building and taking them by force.

Of course, it does bear noting that these are, after all, French-Canadian police, not Mounties.

Last case of people seeking sanctuary in a church in Quebec,was a South-American family a few months ago,not sure but i think they may still be in

BTW its Sureté du Quebec

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-10-12 06:59pm

During some of the bad days of LA gang violence in the early 90's, churches were often used by gang members to seek shelter. The priests permitted it, but weapons were left outside.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-12 07:01pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:During some of the bad days of LA gang violence in the early 90's, churches were often used by gang members to seek shelter. The priests permitted it, but weapons were left outside.

Yeah, but from the police, or other gangs?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-12 07:03pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Well they should hesitate to storm any building.
I don't think you understand what I meant when I said "wait". Think of timeframes on the order of "weeks", not "hours".

...

Weeks. That's insane. Was this with or without the priest's permission/blessing?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-12 07:07pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Well they should hesitate to storm any building.
I don't think you understand what I meant when I said "wait". Think of timeframes on the order of "weeks", not "hours".
...
Weeks. That's insane. Was this with or without the priest's permission/blessing?

Sort of both. I don't know if they bother asking for permission before moving in, but once they're in, the priests angrily confront the police on their behalf, telling them that they have no right to enter "sacred ground" and take the person away.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-10-12 07:22pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:During some of the bad days of LA gang violence in the early 90's, churches were often used by gang members to seek shelter. The priests permitted it, but weapons were left outside.
Yeah, but from the police, or other gangs?

Actually, both, but more frequently from gangs. The police would wait out the gang members, the other gangs couldn't afford to do that.