Is it harder for young people to get established today?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-14 05:07pm

Wicked Pilot wrote: Actually I could support a family financially as of now. In fact, within three years I'll make more money that my parents ever did when they were raising me. Of course maturity wise I don't think I'm ready for that step just yet, or maybe ever, but it was my impression that the article was more concerned with the financial aspect of becoming 'established'.

Dude, your never "ready" to raise a family. There's always a reason to postpone it, money, maturity etc. I'm thankful that our first child was unplanned. It just threw us in there and we were forced to get "ready".

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2004-10-15 02:16am

Thank God I am not alone. I look at my parents, and I was really starting to feel bad about myself, not having anything, or established myself. (Everytime I seem to get a grip, life kicks me in the balls to make me stay down.)

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2004-10-15 08:54am

Half of my friends are 25 and either already own a home or will own a home within a year and they're computer-oriented professionals. The other half of my friends live paycheck to paycheck and they have film, English and Journalism degrees.

I'm somewhere in betweeen, and can't foresee myself being financially secure to get a house and have a decent savings until I get a post-graduate business degree. Right now, I have a fair income for someone who is 24, but a year from now I'm going to start feeling anxious about my financial health.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-10-15 10:04am

Maybe it depends on the region, but what I noticed was touched on earlier. The classic case in employment was that vicious circle of needing that intial 2 years or so experience, but how to get that experience starting out. Now there still is that, but there's also the over-qualified employment hurdle, people don't want to hire you because they think you'll be going somewhere else with your qualifications.

Is it true the IT and Comp Sci fields are getting better? My older brother went through the whole dot com boom and got shafted by the high tech bust and is now working in a factory with a juicy Comp Sci degree. Almost everyone I know my age and older (25+) got shafted in the tech industry and is working in an unrelated field. The field got way oversaturated or something, people either can't get intial starting experience to land decent entry job or too qualified to get a higher position or those positions don't exist.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-10-15 10:53am

Meest wrote:Is it true the IT and Comp Sci fields are getting better? My older brother went through the whole dot com boom and got shafted by the high tech bust and is now working in a factory with a juicy Comp Sci degree. Almost everyone I know my age and older (25+) got shafted in the tech industry and is working in an unrelated field. The field got way oversaturated or something, people either can't get intial starting experience to land decent entry job or too qualified to get a higher position or those positions don't exist.

They say it is but it sure doesn't look that way for someone like me trying to find a job in the field. A lot of the "growth" if you will is in contract work, sign on the dotted line and you'll have work for 3 months, after that, who knows. It's still damn near impossible to find a full-time job in the field unless you have 10 years of experience & tons of certification & training. I was getting nowhere in the field so I left for government work, I'm now a Canada Customs Enforcement agent.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-15 11:01am

aerius wrote:I'm now a Canada Customs Enforcement agent.

Does this mean you're watching my mail-order porn when it comes across the border? Is that why it takes so long to arrive?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-10-15 12:02pm

aerius wrote:I'm now a Canada Customs Enforcement agent.

That sounds rather sinister. Does it mean you are in charge of forcing Anne Murray, back bacon and flannel upon the unsuspecting people of the world?

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-10-15 12:09pm

Darth Wong wrote:Does this mean you're watching my mail-order porn when it comes across the border? Is that why it takes so long to arrive?

No, that's the Customs guys at the postal facility on Eglinton & Dixie, I'm at the airport busting people for drugs and sending them in for full body cavity searches.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-15 12:29pm

all of my friends are 25 or upwards. non but one of them are even near fulfilling the relevant criteria.
the one is finishing uni this semester, already has a job for afterwards, lives together with his grilfriend and they´re expected to get a kid as soon as he´s got that job.
on the other hand i also have 30+ year freinds who have nothing but a job that pays shitty (one croupier and one web designer).

most of the others are on their best way to get good jobs (architects, engineers, doctors and chemists) but the rest (kids, self sufficiency, marriage) are far from being accomplished. most of them still enjoy fucking around too much.

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2004-10-15 01:09pm

aerius wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Does this mean you're watching my mail-order porn when it comes across the border? Is that why it takes so long to arrive?
No, that's the Customs guys at the postal facility on Eglinton & Dixie, I'm at the airport busting people for drugs and sending them in for full body cavity searches.

Oh, to have job satisfaction..<sigh>

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-10-15 04:12pm

It's the same over in the UK. My dad left school at 16 and has worked every days since (don't knoe about the future as he works for Bombardier) yet when i left school at 17 with a shit load more qualifications and i was 21 before i could get perminant work, i was stuck as the guy agencies call if someone somewhere phones in sick, and as for the pay, it's a fecking joke. The average house in Belfast is 80/100 grand and then you have to run your new home.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-10-15 06:08pm

I know I graduated from a pretty prestigious university with an ever-so-versatile math degree and I have not been able to get one computer, business or engineering job with it (at least not one that lasts for more than a month). I have been able to get shitty low-paying and part-time jobs, but again only for a month or so before the company downsizes or something.

The most steady work I've gotten is as a private tutor (I just got a new client yesterday, from a recommendation from one of my old clients), and now it looks like I'll be working part-time as a tutor and TA in a neighboring city. I'm still working on my teaching credential (they make you jump through a shitload of hoops at every stage), but I should actually have the fabled beast known as "Securitye of the Jobbe" once I get it. And then I'll have enough vacation time to continue my writing career or my stand-up.

But this country needs some things worked out. It's as expensive to live in the crummiest shitholes of outland Orange County as it is to live in Oakland and San Francisco, but there are no high-paying jobs to be had by anyone who doesn't already have 5-10 years of experience. Jesus, that's infuriating!

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2004-10-16 12:15am

Enforcer Talen wrote:-shrugs- Im planning marriage and kids at 25 or later.

the prereqs for a good job involve a college degree. . .

Not really, my brother is a labourer and makes $30 an hour and I am a delivery driver and should be making (just started with another courier company) $600-$800 a week.

It is true that there are many good jobs that require a college or university degree but not all. You got to look hard enough to find a well paying job that doesn't require uni or college.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-16 12:18am

Enigma wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:-shrugs- Im planning marriage and kids at 25 or later.

the prereqs for a good job involve a college degree. . .
Not really, my brother is a labourer and makes $30 an hour and I am a delivery driver and should be making (just started with another courier company) $600-$800 a week.

It is true that there are many good jobs that require a college or university degree but not all. You got to look hard enough to find a well paying job that doesn't require uni or college.

The problem is that your salary is not portable. If you get fired, you just have to hope you get another job like that. A degree, on the other hand, can never be taken away from you. It's yours for life, immune to bankruptcies, corporate takeovers, etc.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2004-10-16 12:36am

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:-shrugs- Im planning marriage and kids at 25 or later.

the prereqs for a good job involve a college degree. . .
Not really, my brother is a labourer and makes $30 an hour and I am a delivery driver and should be making (just started with another courier company) $600-$800 a week.

It is true that there are many good jobs that require a college or university degree but not all. You got to look hard enough to find a well paying job that doesn't require uni or college.
The problem is that your salary is not portable. If you get fired, you just have to hope you get another job like that. A degree, on the other hand, can never be taken away from you. It's yours for life, immune to bankruptcies, corporate takeovers, etc.

Of course the degree stays with you, especially when you work at McDonald's or Tim Hortons.

My job on the other hand, if I get fired I can easily get another courier job. My brother as a unionized labourer can quite easily get another construction job. The only difference between my brother and I and someone with a degree is several tens of thousands of dollars.

I'm not advocating people not to go to uni or college but just to say that you don't have to go to uni or college to have a well paying job. I would ike to go to uni to be a chartered accountant but at the moment I am quite happy being a delivery driver (but saving up to take that course).

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-10-16 02:15am

I do think that the amount of time it takes to reach "adulthood" is getting longer. I think multiple reasons for this exist.

The cost of living: The cost of living here is so prohibitive that young people have no hope of buying a home unless they are married and have a combined income of over 100K. Event then it will take years to save the 20% down for a 500K house. A condo or townhome is more affordable but a single family home is out of reach now even for most middle class folks.

The bad economy: If you graduated in the last 3 years you are probably still working at Best Buy, Costco, or some other place for college kids. There are thousands of experienced professionals who have lost their job and will take lower wages usually reserved for the inexperienced.

Women in the workforce: Women have more choices today than in the 60's. Many are chosing to delay marriage and child birth to work in the corporate sector. If you live in an expensive area they might not have a choice. Men too are delaying having the first kid.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-10-16 03:25am

In NZ we have had 10-15 years of pushing people to 'get a degree' and this has got our nation into the poo as too many have got a degree and not enough have gone into trades, like sparkies, plumbers and builders. After the last 15 years we have found that unemployment/employment does not care if you have a degree or not, what counts is what you can do, and having a degree is not nesseraly the same as being able to do something.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-10-16 03:30am

And on an on topic note. For me, and a good chunk of NZ, lack of jobs, lower wages and an economy that was stagnant, have delayed the independence of a lot of people. Its as simple as this, little or no money=lack of independence.

septesix · Post by **septesix** » 2004-10-16 08:31pm

The true measure of adulthood is not 18 or 21. The true measure of adulthood is reaching these benchmarks: leaving home, finishing school, getting married, having a child, and being financially independent.

I'd agree with getting married, having a child and being financially independent. but..

Why must one leave "home" to be considered reaching adulthood? A lot of my elder relatives have their children (my cousins) still living either with them or very close to them. I suppose it's the difference in culture, but among the taiwaness people I know, it's perfectly acceptable, or even expected, that some of the child ( especially the eldest) stay with the parents and living close together if not outright in the same house.

Also, one need not finish school before one reaches adulthood. I have a classmate who is married, has a kid, live away from his parents and he's STILL in school. I'd consider him to be estabilshed, but this report won't.

I think this two measures might have skewed the numbers too low.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2004-10-17 10:32am

Darth Wong wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:I finished school, left home, and became financially independent a few days after my 22nd birthday, yet I'm not 'established' because I'm single. What kind of BS is that?
Fatherhood is a huge, expensive, life-changing thing that you haven't done yet.

So... those who are unable to reproduce will forever be minors or second-class citizens?

A better way to phrase it might be saying one is financially capable of supporting a spouse and offspring, even if one does not actually do so.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-17 10:44am

Stuart Mackey wrote:In NZ we have had 10-15 years of pushing people to 'get a degree' and this has got our nation into the poo as too many have got a degree and not enough have gone into trades, like sparkies, plumbers and builders. After the last 15 years we have found that unemployment/employment does not care if you have a degree or not, what counts is what you can do, and having a degree is not nesseraly the same as being able to do something.

same here in germany. we have an enormous amount of unemployed on the one hand a whole lot of places for trainees which won´t get taken because nobody wants to become a glazier anymore.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2004-10-17 02:30pm

I swear, if I can't get decent employment out of college I'm going to go learn carpentry or something.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2004-10-17 04:52pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:-shrugs- Im planning marriage and kids at 25 or later.

the prereqs for a good job involve a college degree. . .

I'm planning neither, I just hope work experience will be something valuable as it's mostly what I have, I don't have much in terms of education, just 3 years of computer-related studies after high-school, since then I've been working, mainly coding in ASP and HTML and other systems administration stuff, I'd like to think I've learnt alot more about coding than before though I still find my knowledge lacking compared to "real" coders.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2004-10-17 04:55pm

Alan Bolte wrote:I swear, if I can't get decent employment out of college I'm going to go learn carpentry or something.

I've often wondered if people with jobs like that aren't the lucky ones..

Personally I'm having real problems deciding what I want todo with my lifes, computers has been the only thing I've really been interested in so I'm guessing something like that, though it could be fun to be a park ranger or something and spend my days chasing bears that are stealing food.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-10-18 06:56pm

I can attest to this personally. Between the cost of paying my student loans and the bureaucratic horseshit I've been fighting trying to get my teaching certification, I'm 23 and still stuck at home. And because I'm working a shit job and don't have my own place, my romantic prospects are limited (it's extremely embarassing to even talk about with new people). It's been slowly making me more and more miserable.