Ontario To Ban Pitbulls

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-17 05:13pm

CBC wrote:TORONTO - Calling the dogs "ticking time bombs," Ontario's attorney general announced Friday that the province will become the first in Canada to ban pit bulls.

Michael Bryant said legislation to ban the dogs will be introduced within a month.

Canada's most populous province will allow current owners of pit bulls to keep their pets, but will place an absolute ban on new ownership of the dogs throughout the province.

Following a transition period, pit bulls will have to be muzzled and leashed, along with being neutered or spayed, said Bryant.

"I am convinced that pit bulls are ticking time bombs," he said, calling them "inherently dangerous animals."

Referring to recent attacks, Bryant defended his government's decision to crack down on the pets, saying: "How many limbs are going to have to be severed before we do something about these dogs?

"We cannot have these animals walking the streets, the fields, or the family rooms of Ontario."

The province will also implement new restrictions and penalties on irresponsible dog owners of all breeds, he said. Under the proposed legislation, dog owners could face jail sentences or fines of up to $10,000.

The government legislation comes in response to numerous pit-bull attacks on Ontario residents, including a number of children. In a recent incident in Toronto, two of the animals continued to attack a man even after police shot them repeatedly.

The man was "practically eaten alive from the ankles up," said Bryant.

Animal activists were quick to applaud the proposed legislation, but questioned whether it would be enforceable.

Pit bulls have come under criticism after recent attacks.
Liz White of the Animal Alliance of Canada said it's too hard to determine which dogs are pit bulls, since it's a cross-breed that can display many different looks.

In the end, innocent dogs will end up being destroyed, White said.

Meanwhile, Ontario Justice Patrick Deacon ruled Friday a pit bull cross named "Bandit" can be put down. The dog mauled a three-year-old boy last year and left injuries requiring more than 200 stitches.

The humane society had argued Bandit has been rehabilitated but Deacon said there was no guarantee the dog would not attack another person.

Municipalities in the province already had the option of banning pit bulls under the Ontario Municipal Act. The cities of Kitchener, Waterloo, and Windsor have effectively banned pit bulls and placed restrictions on owners.

Winnipeg has had a ban on the dogs since 1990, and other cities across the country such as Vancouver have vicious dog bylaws requiring the dogs to be muzzled and leashed.

I say good ridance, the dogs have proven to be nothing but a menance. I'm sure that there are good Pitbulls out there but like eveything else a few bad apples will ruin it for the good ones. Although I'm curious as to how much of the aggressiveness is genetic and how much is owner influence.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-10-17 05:15pm

Good move.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-10-17 05:21pm

I don't understand how the owners of violent animals have the gall to protest the destruction of their animals. If I had a dog that viciously attacked a little boy, I certainly wouldn't love it anymore.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-17 06:18pm

The fact that these things were practically bred as guard dogs with attitude problems escapes most pitbull lovers. I've never liked them much like dobermans. If they're to be anywhere, it's guarding places no sane person would want to go to.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-17 06:39pm

Pitbulls are unique among dogs because they were specifically bred for fighting, so they have a few special traits:

They do not "telegraph" their attacks in advance. That's a crucial part of the socialization that humans have been doing to dogs for thousands of years, and it was deliberately bred out of pitbulls so that they would be more dangerous in the fighting ring.
They bite to kill, not to frighten or injure. Most dogs bite to injure or frighten, not to maim or kill. Once again, pitbulls were deliberately bred for killer instinct.
Unusually powerful jaws. When pitbulls lock down on you, it's almost impossible to get them off.
Lack of self-preservation instinct. Pitbulls have been known to continue attacking even after being shot with a gun.
General unpredictability. Pitbulls are the only breed that has been known to attack their owners.

One belligerent pitbull owner called the talkradio show in Toronto and complained about the ban, saying it was wrong and saying that she did not plan to muzzle her dogs when she went out in public despite the muzzle law on existing pitbulls. Why would someone refuse to muzzle a powerful dog in public despite a law to that effect? Obviously, because she likes walking around in public with a dog that scares people. And that's why people get these goddamned things.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-10-17 06:57pm

At least dobermans can be trained to be sorta lovable, and nice to children. Like most dogs in fact (the myth that they become insane is because most of them lose their sense of smell, eyesight etc, and they can't *recognize* their owners and thus may attack them

) but pitbulls are nothing but breeded killers.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-10-17 07:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:They do not "telegraph" their attacks in advance. That's a crucial part of the socialization that humans have been doing to dogs for thousands of years, and it was deliberately bred out of pitbulls so that they would be more dangerous in the fighting ring.

That's for sure, throughout my many years of biking I've been chased by countless dogs including a few pitbulls. Other dogs would bark and/or growl before chasing me and continue to make noise during the chase. Pitbulls just came right after me without warning, all I heard was panting and tinkling dogtags and by then it was almost too late. If I wasn't paying full attention to my surroundings I could easily have been caught & mauled. It's scary.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-10-17 07:05pm

Slartibartfast wrote:At least dobermans can be trained to be sorta lovable, and nice to children. Like most dogs in fact (the myth that they become insane is because most of them lose their sense of smell, eyesight etc, and they can't *recognize* their owners and thus may attack them ) but pitbulls are nothing but breeded killers.

My neighbor's Doberman is monstrously huge, I've never seen one that big, he's nearly Great Dane size.
But he's the sweetest animal you'd ever want to meet.

I've known three pitbulls, and they were very sweet natured too.
That doesn't mean they couldn't turn and rip someone's face off, though.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-10-17 07:54pm

Frank Hipper wrote:My neighbor's Doberman is monstrously huge, I've never seen one that big, he's nearly Great Dane size.
But he's the sweetest animal you'd ever want to meet.

I've known three pitbulls, and they were very sweet natured too.
That doesn't mean they couldn't turn and rip someone's face off, though.

Most Dobermans are completely nice creatures unless they are raised not to be. Pitbulls are a little different. If they are raised right, there shouldn't be a problem. However, a disproportionate amount of pitbull owners get them because they are monsters if not raised right.

I've got mixed feelings about this ban, particularly if it involves euthanizing large amounts of pitbulls who haven't done anything or the problem that correctly identifying a pitbull can be a trick (something mentioned in the article).

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-17 08:56pm

Gil Hamilton wrote: I've got mixed feelings about this ban, particularly if it involves euthanizing large amounts of pitbulls who haven't done anything or the problem that correctly identifying a pitbull can be a trick (something mentioned in the article).

According to the article I posted, no Pitbulls will be put down. They will however have to be spayed or neutered. And pitbull sale's will be banned throughout the province. In addition the animals will have to be muzzeled.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-10-17 09:19pm

I really am opposed to any absolute ban on keeping certain animals(unless endangered or impossible to feed an/or house by a lay person) as pets. WHile not opposed to the idea of needing a permit for certain aggressive dog breeds, large cats, or crocodilians over 4 feet long, an absolute ban is overkill. Mandatory obedience training, sure, a permit, sure. But animals can be trained and not all of them have the same disposition. And it isnt fair to the good dog owners to ban their pets, when they and their dogs have done nothing wrong.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-10-17 09:51pm

Are we talking about "pit bulls" or are we talking about the formal breed, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-10-17 09:55pm

Iceberg wrote:Are we talking about "pit bulls" or are we talking about the formal breed, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier?

American or other type,the dogs were bred to entertain the retards,who wanted to see blood

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-10-17 09:58pm

Montcalm wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Are we talking about "pit bulls" or are we talking about the formal breed, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier?
American or other type,the dogs were bred to entertain the retards,who wanted to see blood

There's a distinct difference between AKC/CKC Am Staffs and "pit bulls", though.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-10-17 09:59pm

I think this would be one of only a few appropiate times to actually say won't someone please think of the children!

Post by **Edi** » 2004-10-18 05:04am

Darth Wong wrote:Pitbulls are the only breed that has been known to attack their owners.

Not quite. There are some other breeds too, particularly the ouzarka dogs from Central Asia and the Caucasus region, they have to be trained right or they will be dangerous to people, owners included, and even trained ones may flip out. Before my parents bought a car, we used to go to our summer place by bus and by taxi for the last 10 miles. We almost always had the same taxi driver, and nearly had half of his arm ripped off by his ouzarka, which was a trained animal, no less. It attacked with no warning whatsoever as he walked to his own yard. He called in a vert to put it down after he'd been patched up, but the animal was so dangerous the man wouldn't go near it and they had to kill it with a shotgun.

Another man I met who has had runins with ouzarkas was a problem dog trainer who helped my friend with his Belgian shepherd (the dog had some attitude problems). He'd had half of his right arm literally ripped off by one, it had taken lots of major surgery to fix him and months to recover.

Ouzarkas aren't very common, though, so pit bulls would be the only relatively common breed known to attack their owners.

Edi

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-18 07:26am

I recall that the Queen had one of her little Corgis killed by Princess Anne's pitbull (which has also attacked a kid in public before without being punished).

There were pitbulls in the Hulk movie too, but grossly large. Funny thing is, the small and stout build of the dogs is what makes them amazing fighters. Any bigger or smaller and they'd lose effectiveness. They truly are scary and are up there in my mind with mutated Dobermans and Rottweilers that don't like me (I love Rotts and if my black Lab had tan colouring, he'd basically look like a Rottweiler).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-10-18 07:32am

I think its lame that people get these dogs solely because they're 'hardcore'. Dobermans etc are nasty, house protecting animals too, but they won't kill you, or your neighbours, or local kids. Why not just allow people to be punished if their animal hurts someone? That'd either encourage people to train their pitbulls to be safer or change breeds.

Also, from a legal standpoint, the fact they don't 'telegraph' their attacks is pretty dodgey. The doberman-pinscher we had when I was a kid would scare strangers away, but never attack them. A dog like that doesn't have to. But pitbulls don't bother saying 'back off or you're toast', they just go people. Thats not very safe.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-18 07:40am

It's deterrance. My dog is only a small one in relation to my previous Labrador, but he's built like a miniature Rottweiler and if he attacks you, you will know about it. He has a penchant for pain. But he's a great guard dog. Anyone he doesn't know turns up outside and he'll bark at them, ear's pricked up. With Pitbulls, you don't get that. They just want to go and rip your intestines out through your throat. No deterrance unless you know it's there. A burglar can cause more harm if on your property and then gets attacked rather than get scared off long before by barking.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-10-18 08:04am

Lord Wong has mentioned the traits of the Pit Bull that make it dangerous, and I agree with him on those traits. Fact is fact. Pit Bulls were breed to be killers. Plain and simple.

However, banning them, I disagree with this.

There a weapon. Fine.

Require there owners to take courses on how to handle them, require big time liscencing fees for them to discourage idiots from getting them, make the owners liable for the actions of there animal (a good idea in the case of any dog breed. I've seen vicious dogs from Yorkshire size and up), and make not having your dog over a certain weight size muzzled a felony.

Banning them outright will just increase there popularity with the kind of people that like to piss people off anyway.

Also, while Pit Bulls are more dangerous, I've known Pit Bulls that were the biggest sucks around. Case in point

When I was a mail man, I had one in a yard run towards me. The yard was fenced, but had a little 3 inch gap under a part of it. I decided that the dog was probably vicious, so I stepped away. It got to the edge of it's fence and started whinning, and I saw it drop something. the something rolled under the fence and onto the sidewalk.

It had brought me it's ball. It wanted to play.

Well, I tossed the ball back into it's yard (difficult, considering it was a 7 foot fence), and ended up playing fetch with the dog in question for about 10 minutes. I figured 'okay, make sure he knows I'm a friend, since I'm going to be coming into this neighbourhood twice a week for the next while). When I decided that was enough, I tossed him the ball and walked away. The dog cried like a baby until I heard it's owners call it in.

The next time I was delievering, the hole under the fence was gone. There was a board there. And the dog was still trying to get me to play fetch, but the hole was sealed.

I shrugged, and didn't think about it for a while.

A few months later, in the middle of summer, I was delivering, and the dog was in it's yard with it's master. The dog ran up to me through the fence, and the owners said hello. I decided to ask them why they'd boarded up the hole, it was too small for the dog to get out of.

They said it was to keep the dog in the yard. They had made sure it was friendly when they were raising it, but didn't want to run the risk of the dog getting lose. (Hence the 7 wooden fence little kids couldn't get there fingers through).

Anyway, that's the kind of person that should be allowed to have a Pit Bull. Smart and responsible.

I admit, I should probably not have a Pit Bull. Beside a cat that would probably provoke it into attacking somehow (he tries to eat my socks off my feet, and everyone elses feet too), I like to wrestle with my dogs (when I have on). Bad thing to teach a Pit Bull. I also live in a Townhouse complete (or rather, will in a little over a week), meaning there are lots of kids around, and if the dog got out could do damage.

That doesn't mean that no one should.

My aunt and uncle in timmins are located perfectly to have a Pit Bull. 40 minute drive north of Timmins (get to the middle of nowhere and turn North) on a big lot of land, with a nicely fenced backyard.

My parents, if there fence was taller by about 3 feet, would be good owners for a pit bull.

My grandparents would have been good pitbull owners before my grandmother died if there yard was better fenced. That, and they were too old to handle a pit bull.

But that's it out of all the people I know, incluiding my entire family of about 25 cousins and 10 aunts and uncles. Out of like 90 people, 1 qualified completely, and two that would need major adjustments to do it.

They are a dangerous bred. Yes. However, there are other dangerous things out there (Cars and Guns come to mind). Proper training (in this case of both the animal and owner), Combined with a properly fenced backyard, negates alot of that danger.

However, the ban is coming. Another well intentioned idea (control of a dangerous bred) that is going to be royally fucked up due to political bullshit, media-mis-hype, and public-hysteria.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-10-18 08:12am

These rules would have to take into account that a gun and car don't have minds of their own. That's the problem here, not that they can kill, but that they decide for themselves what they want to do.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » 2004-10-18 10:15am

Gil Hamilton wrote:Most Dobermans are completely nice creatures unless they are raised not to be.

For many decades there has been a breeding effort to reduce the aggressiveness of Dobermans in order to make them more suitable family pets.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » 2004-10-18 10:20am

Iceberg wrote:Are we talking about "pit bulls" or are we talking about the formal breed, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier?

I would be very surprised if they are differentiating between the two.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-10-18 10:57am

On a lighter note, clearly we must legalize the carry and use of high-powered firearms for all law-abiding citizens to defend themselves from the evil pitbulls.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-18 11:57am

In Germany, the various states have banned what most consider "fight dogs", like pit bulls.
The funny thing about it is that "normal" dogs like shepperds, rottweiler, or dobermänner, lead the bite statistic.
It's only because the media has a sort-of frenzy for pit bulls, that the public is so afraid.