Some questions about rabid trekkies

Needa · Post by **Needa** » 2002-11-04 08:30pm

When Startrek get his ass kicked by Starwars, it seems that some people can not accept it, like if it was a shame that the good Federation get beaten up by a bunch of evil imperials.

I've always got trouble understanding why people like, ehh I don't know, Darkstar/User99/GK can not accept nor remember simple facts. I am not talking about numbers or complex calculations. Just simple facts like the industrial output! It?s like they HAVE TO defend Startrek's pride or whenever at all cost. Is Startrek some kind of religion to them?

I can understand for people like fundies. But people like Darkstar and the like? I just can?t see how they have to debate endlessly.

Personnaly, I would not care if Starwars lose agaisnt an other science fiction universe. Perhaps there is warsies as rabid as the trekkies I?ve mentionned before. But it seems to me they are not as numerous as their cousins?

My 3 questions :

Why are those kind of people so obsessed about Startrek winning the various science fiction debates?

What can explain this behaviour?

Why is it so important to win agaisnt Starwars? (pretty similar to the first questions, but I would also like your idea on this particular debate) Is it because SW seems so inferior technologicaly if we only take a superficial look that it could be a shame to loose?

Anyway, I would really like to hear what you think about this.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-04 08:34pm

same can apply for b5, but that is more recent development

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-11-04 08:48pm

I think Geroge Carlin said it best. This is when talking about why people kill themselves over gods.

"Do you believe in God?"

"No"

BAM!

"Do you believe in God"

"Yes"

"Do you believe in my god?"

"No"

BAM!

"My God has a bigger dick than your god!"

Its Dick Fear

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-04 09:16pm

I think it has to do with the inherent rivalry between SW and ST. Many Trekkers consider SW to be a rival to their "empire," and they frequently cite SW as being the biggest "threat" to their science fiction universe. It also comes down to much of the dicotomy between the two universes.

I personally have never fully understood this, either, though. My favorite Sci-Fi universe is B5, but I would never for a minute believe that the B5 military ships could stand a chance against the models coming out of SW or the Culture or even some of the slightly less powerful sci-fi series. It doesn't make a lick of difference to me. B5's quality as a show is independent of the level of technology that it depicts. In fact, some of B5's charm is that its technology cannot be used as a solution to all problems--there are still identifiable social and economic difficulties within the B5 universe, which seem absent from many other science fiction worlds.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-04 09:22pm

I think a lot has to do with Trekkies thinking because their fave series sounds and looks better tech/science wise to them, it must be superior.

I mean I am with MoO...I love Bab 5 but I know when power is more on one side vs another and hell it's doesn't make me dislike my series any less...I mean I don't need ships carrying guns that sunder galaxies by merely being turned on.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2002-11-04 09:27pm

Ghost Rider wrote:I think a lot has to do with Trekkies thinking because their fave series sounds and looks better tech/science wise to them, it must be superior.

I mean I am with MoO...I love Bab 5 but I know when power is more on one side vs another and hell it's doesn't make me dislike my series any less...I mean I don't need ships carrying guns that sunder galaxies by merely being turned on.

Yea....I would actually prefer watching Bab 5

It's a rivaly I'll never understand...especially being on the Trekkie side. If I can accept Culture will defeat SW....why can't these damn lame ass Trekkies accept that SW will kick there butts?
...grrrr It'll be a question that may never be answer.

Cyaround,
Jason

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-04 09:35pm

yeah there was no SW vs Bab5 newsgroups also, hey this was a like very old topic I brought up at turbolaser commentaries years ago, why does the SW vs bab5 frenzy never to seem to reach the level of the ST Vs ST rivalry which seems to have way to much attention.

I actually had to look hard for said sites.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-05 02:02am

I once read a theory, one I think really fits. It wa that George Lucas created a universe, one so much grander, larger, and more impressive then Trek, that the hardcore ones just can't stand it. They see something, they know it has them beat, and they hate it as a result. Hence they become trolls, who view anyone on the opposite side as a mortal enemy and trekkies who admit defeat as traitors, ala darkstar, or wraith from SB.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-11-05 02:58am

Pride personal investment and so on.
Take the last thread with this Sovereign guy for example, he was pretty harshly treated, that might just piss him off to the point he will not accept anything the "other side" says out of spite and anger.

Thats the way it usually goes.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-11-05 05:13am

It wa that George Lucas created a universe, one so much grander, larger, and more impressive then Trek, that the hardcore ones just can't stand it.

Actually, I think it's a simple matter of Idealism vs. Realism. Star Trek tries to portray a very idealistic view of the future... that man is "enlightened" and "superior", that life is everywhere, that everything is all warm and squishy and good (or, at least, that the warm, squishy good things can beat the mean, spikey evil things).

Conversely, Star Wars presents a very gritty, dirty, violent, dismal portrayal of "advanced life"... basically saying "There's always going to be assholes," and that even in the future (or futuristic past), life's going to be hard, heavy, and painful. Struggle still prevails, people are still greedy and dishonest and shifty, and might still makes right.

Star Trek is like a cute little bunny rabbit, and Star Wars is like the shotgun ready to blast it into a pile of peppered fur.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-05 09:44am

Mmmmm Pepper....

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-11-05 10:30am

SPOOFE wrote:.....

Star Trek is like a cute little bunny rabbit, and Star Wars is like the shotgun ready to blast it into a pile of peppered fur.

And Elmer Fudd as Darth Vader...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-05 10:33am

His Divine Shadow wrote:Pride personal investment and so on.
Take the last thread with this Sovereign guy for example, he was pretty harshly treated, that might just piss him off to the point he will not accept anything the "other side" says out of spite and anger.

Thats the way it usually goes.

That is indeed one of the ways you create rabid people. When people new or uneducated in the debates are treated like shit by the more experienced debaters these new people get angered and start to ignore things said by the opposing side. If it gets to bad they will get paranoid and start to ignore things from people on THEIR side if they happen to disagree with it.

Then again there are just some really stupid people (Omicron Theta, Darkstar, Captain Austin) who didn't have a clue from the very start.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-05 12:15pm

SPOOFE wrote:
It wa that George Lucas created a universe, one so much grander, larger, and more impressive then Trek, that the hardcore ones just can't stand it.
Actually, I think it's a simple matter of Idealism vs. Realism. Star Trek tries to portray a very idealistic view of the future... that man is "enlightened" and "superior", that life is everywhere, that everything is all warm and squishy and good (or, at least, that the warm, squishy good things can beat the mean, spikey evil things).

Conversely, Star Wars presents a very gritty, dirty, violent, dismal portrayal of "advanced life"... basically saying "There's always going to be assholes," and that even in the future (or futuristic past), life's going to be hard, heavy, and painful. Struggle still prevails, people are still greedy and dishonest and shifty, and might still makes right.

Star Trek is like a cute little bunny rabbit, and Star Wars is like the shotgun ready to blast it into a pile of peppered fur.

If that's true, why not theincredible hate for B5? It potrays a very nitty gritty dark galaxy as well.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 12:17pm

Babylon 5 is quite small scale in comparison maybe *shrug*

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-05 12:59pm

If that's true, why not theincredible hate for B5? It potrays a very nitty gritty dark galaxy as well.

there is also a incredible hate for b5 from the more extreme trekkies as well, like the Sci-fi vortex and other sites, who also take a very view on SW also.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-11-05 05:28pm

I don't know why rabid Trekkies become Warsies after losing. Perhaps it's why they're called "rabid". Perhaps they just SW, and want it to lose, even if it won't. In some cases, there a rabid Trekkies that say the like SW (User099 was one of them, I believe), but he based his arguments on pseudoscience and hasty generalizations, and wasn't here long enough for a serious debate.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-05 07:43pm

starfury wrote:
If that's true, why not theincredible hate for B5? It potrays a very nitty gritty dark galaxy as well.
there is also a incredible hate for b5 from the more extreme trekkies as well, like the Sci-fi vortex and other sites, who also take a very view on SW also.

That hatred is more easily understood. B5 and DS9 always had a kind of rivalry going after the snubbing Paramount gave JMS. I just can't figure out why rabid fivers and trekkies seem to hate SW so much. It honestly doesn't make sense to me.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-05 07:49pm

Fanatics never do.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-05 10:12pm

That hatred is more easily understood. B5 and DS9 always had a kind of rivalry going after the snubbing Paramount gave JMS. I just can't figure out why rabid fivers and trekkies seem to hate SW so much. It honestly doesn't make sense to me.

That still does not account for the the fact that they liked the SW/ST/X-files but seem to take great effort to hate b5, why. they often linked to every sci-fi BUT b5 for some reason, that I can't understand.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-05 10:18pm

starfury wrote:
That hatred is more easily understood. B5 and DS9 always had a kind of rivalry going after the snubbing Paramount gave JMS. I just can't figure out why rabid fivers and trekkies seem to hate SW so much. It honestly doesn't make sense to me.
That still does not account for the the fact that they liked the SW/ST/X-files but seem to take great effort to hate b5, why. they often linked to every sci-fi BUT b5 for some reason, that I can't understand.

B5ers have always had a kind of rivalry with ST because the technology in the two universes is reasonably comparable, but also because of the similarities between DS9 and B5. DS9 ripped off B5's plot developments in nearly every way it could, while trying to maintain the ST title, and B5ers responded by insulting many ST fans (ie. "Your show stole everything from B5," "You're show is B5 made crappy," etc.). ST fans retorted that "If DS9 is a rip-off of B5, why did DS9 come out first?" "You guys are posing off of us," etc. From there it's pretty easy to see how the whole thing got out of hand. Too bad, really. I thought that both of them were reasonably good shows. And B5 was phenomenal.

It may also have to do with the opposing philosophies between the show. Many posters here have said that ST lacks consequences from one show to the next, but B5 was based on consequences of characters and their actions. Thus, it's possible that the two sets of fans are just too disimilar to entirely get along, anyway.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-05 11:33pm

Its Important to Trekkies to win against Wars because it’s the biggest sci fi work currently around.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-05 11:52pm

The hostility is simple: rabid fans of both B5 and ST are pissed that Star Wars is far more popular than both B5 and ST combined. Both series take themselves quite seriously, and devotees of both series act like petulant children when forced to face the fact that most people don't really see the appeal (one thing they don't realize is there's very little fun in either B5 or recent Trek; they're both rather pompous). It's a bit like the Brin syndrome; sniffing that George Lucas doesn't deserve to be so successful because he's not like them (not realizing that if he was like them, he wouldn't be so successful).

I actually liked B5 up until the end of the Shadow War, and it didn't turn to shit until after Sheridan retook Earth. But it was never fun, even in its best episodes. When B5 tries to have fun, it really doesn't work. It's at its best when it's brooding, dark, and pompous. And recent Trek is ... well, recent Trek has no "best" at all.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-11-05 11:56pm

I actually liked B5 up until the end of the Shadow War, and it didn't turn to shit until after Sheridan retook Earth. But it was never fun, even in its best episodes. When B5 tries to have fun, it really doesn't work. It's at its best when it's brooding, dark, and pompous. And recent Trek is ... well, recent Trek has no "best" at all.

I actually can think of one best thing about recent Trek -- it can inspire you to take up a book and read or it can make you take a crack at writing your own stories because I'm pretty sure that a retarded chimpanzee can write a better, more coherent, tighter continuity, dramatically gripping story than B&B.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-06 12:10am

Darth Wong wrote:The hostility is simple: rabid fans of both B5 and ST are pissed that Star Wars is far more popular than both B5 and ST combined. Both series take themselves quite seriously, and devotees of both series act like petulant children when forced to face the fact that most people don't really see the appeal (one thing they don't realize is there's very little fun in either B5 or recent Trek; they're both rather pompous). It's a bit like the Brin syndrome; sniffing that George Lucas doesn't deserve to be so successful because he's not like them (not realizing that if he was like them, he wouldn't be so successful).

I actually liked B5 up until the end of the Shadow War, and it didn't turn to shit until after Sheridan retook Earth. But it was never fun, even in its best episodes. When B5 tries to have fun, it really doesn't work. It's at its best when it's brooding, dark, and pompous. And recent Trek is ... well, recent Trek has no "best" at all.

I could care less about the popularity of Trek compared to other stuff. When I gew up watching it I already knew I was one of the few in my area who watched it and that was just fine by me. Not all fans really care about the popularity. About the only fans that get REALLy rabid when it comes to the popularity of something else would be Total Annihilation fans hating Starcraft and Wing Commander fans hating Freespace.