"Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-10-16 12:16pm

Jabba's henchman Bib Fortunna utters this line when Luke's hologram bargains for Solo's life. As a child when I saw this scene I always assumed that this meant the Jedi were uber badasses and didn't bother to bargain. Now that we have the prequels we know that the Jedi were peace keepers, in fact TPM introduces the Jedi in a scene where they attempt to negotiate with the Trade Federation. They are forced into a fight.

So how does this jibe with Fortuna's comment who is probably old enough to have seen the Jedi in action? And Jabba definately was a contemporary of the Jedi.

Perhaps because they were underworld elements the Jedi never bothered to negotiate with them - but that still doesn't seem to fit the mold of the Jedi we're given in the prequels where fighting seems to be a last resort.

And does anyone remember Jabba's line in the novelization which was one of my favorite lines in the trilogy: "I was killing your kind when being a Jedi meant something." Do we assume he was part of the purge or more likely his organization was so powerful that it even occasionally killed Jedi who tried to interfere back in the day.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-16 12:21pm

Stravo wrote:Jabba's henchman Bib Fortunna utters this line when Luke's hologram bargains for Solo's life. As a child when I saw this scene I always assumed that this meant the Jedi were uber badasses and didn't bother to bargain. Now that we have the prequels we know that the Jedi were peace keepers, in fact TPM introduces the Jedi in a scene where they attempt to negotiate with the Trade Federation. They are forced into a fight.

So how does this jibe with Fortuna's comment who is probably old enough to have seen the Jedi in action? And Jabba definately was a contemporary of the Jedi.

I always took the line to mean that Bib was advising Jabba not to bargin and to just kill the kid, since 'he's no Jedi.' Because the Jedi were wiped out. Luke went in there with big old balls of bronze, demanding Jabba's favorite 'decoration' and did so on the basis that he was a 'super uber warrior' that every one knew didn't exsist anymore.

Thats how I took the line.

Perhaps because they were underworld elements the Jedi never bothered to negotiate with them - but that still doesn't seem to fit the mold of the Jedi we're given in the prequels where fighting seems to be a last resort.

And does anyone remember Jabba's line in the novelization which was one of my favorite lines in the trilogy: "I was killing your kind when being a Jedi meant something." Do we assume he was part of the purge or more likely his organization was so powerful that it even occasionally killed Jedi who tried to interfere back in the day.

Bravado, on Jabba's part? He's definately old enough to have operated durring the Old Republic and thus had to have had dealings with the Jedi in some way or another, but probably said it to see if he could scare the piss out of the little boy acting tough in front of him.

Twas his mistake that the boy wan't bluffing.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-16 12:35pm

Stravo wrote:Jabba's henchman Bib Fortunna utters this line when Luke's hologram bargains for Solo's life. As a child when I saw this scene I always assumed that this meant the Jedi were uber badasses and didn't bother to bargain. Now that we have the prequels we know that the Jedi were peace keepers, in fact TPM introduces the Jedi in a scene where they attempt to negotiate with the Trade Federation. They are forced into a fight.

So how does this jibe with Fortuna's comment who is probably old enough to have seen the Jedi in action? And Jabba definately was a contemporary of the Jedi.

Possibly, but I took it more as

"He's bluffing...why bargain if he some uber warrior of old?"

Perhaps because they were underworld elements the Jedi never bothered to negotiate with them - but that still doesn't seem to fit the mold of the Jedi we're given in the prequels where fighting seems to be a last resort.

And does anyone remember Jabba's line in the novelization which was one of my favorite lines in the trilogy: "I was killing your kind when being a Jedi meant something." Do we assume he was part of the purge or more likely his organization was so powerful that it even occasionally killed Jedi who tried to interfere back in the day.

Perhaps, but also a bit more on the bluff notion.

Even in the prequels we get the idea that to most folk the Jedi are THE warriors.

So in comes some kid going "I'm a Jedi...no give me Han and you can go on living!"

Even I would go "Screw off kid."

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-16 12:37pm

Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-16 12:48pm

Knife wrote: Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.

Oh ha-ha.

I would think that both of you guys with your egos would rather had the statement of great minds think alike

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-10-16 12:48pm

Knife wrote: Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.

Ghost is getting a tad transparent with his copycatting. It used to be more subtle.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-16 12:49pm

Stravo wrote:
Knife wrote: Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.
Ghost is getting a tad transparent with his copycatting. It used to be more subtle.

Keep telling yourself that old man...keep telling yourself that

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-16 12:53pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Knife wrote: Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.
Oh ha-ha.

I would think that both of you guys with your egos would rather had the statement of great minds think alike

Oh, ok. You can be a great mind too.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-10-16 12:57pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Knife wrote: Sure, first you copy Strav's post in the Myth thread, now you pretty much do so to mine here.
Oh ha-ha.

I would think that both of you guys with your egos would rather had the statement of great minds think alike

Great minds think alike and fool never differ. Since your mods I won't comment on which appies.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-10-18 11:01am

Oh, that's what he says? I always thought the first line was either in Huttese or went something like, "Master, bargain it we're not. He's no Jedi." Of course, I also thought Tarkin's line "This bickering is pointless" was "You're despickling his pointess," which I could never figure out until I realized what he was saying much later

The stated interpretation of it, though, makes sense. Bib had just seen Luke's hologram, offering a bargain, rather than Luke himself showing up and saying, "Give me my friend, he is not yours to possess" and assuming it would happen, which strikes me as more "Jedi."

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-18 07:22pm

Dang it. In the VHS version of ROTJ (not sure about the SE), the closed caption option actually spelled out the Huttese that's being spoken by Bib, Jabba and the others, but the DVD does not (just says "Speaking Huttese").

So I was going to look this up, but can't now, not with this version. Oh well.

But, IIRC, he's not speaking english (or "basic") but Huttese that just sounds to us a bit like english, sort of like the "Dat guy's wise" line uttered by the Ewok in response to Threepio's statements to them. ; )

Intentional? Who knows, but I'm guessing so... it's like the Chewie "Tarzan" yell. It may be an in-joke as a movie, but in-universe there's nothing out of the ordinary about it.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-10-18 07:36pm

And when Bib Fortuna walks up to Boush after negotiating Chewie's bounty, he says 'he's gay'. Funny that.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-10-18 09:15pm

Kurgan wrote: But, IIRC, he's not speaking english (or "basic") but Huttese that just sounds to us a bit like english, sort of like the "Dat guy's wise" line uttered by the Ewok in response to Threepio's statements to them. ; )

On that note, have we even heard Bib speak Basic at all?

He obviously understands it, as he was speaking with Threepio between Basic and Huttese. But he never has spoken it at all throughout the film. Even when Luke uses his mind trick to make him repeat what is said.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-18 10:05pm

Hardy wrote:
Kurgan wrote: But, IIRC, he's not speaking english (or "basic") but Huttese that just sounds to us a bit like english, sort of like the "Dat guy's wise" line uttered by the Ewok in response to Threepio's statements to them. ; )
On that note, have we even heard Bib speak Basic at all?

He obviously understands it, as he was speaking with Threepio between Basic and Huttese. But he never has spoken it at all throughout the film. Even when Luke uses his mind trick to make him repeat what is said.

Hmm, I just assumed it was heavily acsented Basic, when look was mind tricking him. Perhaps Basic and Huttese intermixed and slurred.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-10-18 10:23pm

I'm mistaken. As a matter of fact, there was one instance where he does speak Basic:

ROTJ Script wrote:
BIB
Master.

Jabba awakens with a start and Bib continues, in Huttese.

BIB
...Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight.

The term "Jedi Knight" may simply be universal, but I'm quite sure that "Master" is not Huttese word.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-10-18 10:35pm

It always sounded like he was speaking Huttese to me. I figured it was something like, "Don't bargain with him, Master. He's no Jedi."

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-18 11:30pm

Yeah, it SOUNDS like he's mixing a bit of accented basic in with his Huttese. Again, if I had the closed captionining from the VHS tapes I could show you. : p

Anybody who has it, do me a favor and check!

PS: Boussh orders a bottle of "Zima" after the deal is sealed. ; )

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-10-18 11:52pm

Just checked the SE VHS.

This...

MASTER, BARGONAY
TUA KNIGHT?

HE'S NO JEDI.

...is exactly how it appears on my screen.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-19 12:21am

Well, in after thought, is there any reason why 'broken basic' should not be common with all the different species in the SW galaxy? While any 'aliens' who travel or do buisness with the galactic comunity would know basic, that doesn't mean it would be their primary language. So some interesting slang/dialects/intermingling of speach would occur.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-19 04:03am

McC wrote:Just checked the SE VHS.

This...

MASTER, BARGONAY
TUA KNIGHT?

HE'S NO JEDI.

...is exactly how it appears on my screen.

Thank you.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-10-19 04:21am

Of course, that begs the question exactly what "bargonay tua knight" means in Huttese

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-10-19 02:45pm

Knife wrote:Well, in after thought, is there any reason why 'broken basic' should not be common with all the different species in the SW galaxy? While any 'aliens' who travel or do buisness with the galactic comunity would know basic, that doesn't mean it would be their primary language. So some interesting slang/dialects/intermingling of speach would occur.

Heck, it happens here on Earth with different human languages

. I have a friend from Paris, and we use a combination of French and English to talk when we don't want others to understand us. I also have friends that use Spanglish and even a couple that use a bastardization of Tagalog and English.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-10-19 02:52pm

It seems that English (basic) and Huttese are the two most commonly used languages in the galaxy. It wouldn't be a stretch to have them bastardized together in the outer rim.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-10-19 03:24pm

Remember what was the instant responce of finding out that the Chancler's Ambassadors were Jedi Knights. They immediatally assumed that they were there to force a settlment. It seems that the idea that Jedi do not bargain is a fairly prevelent idea.

Its as if Fortanna is saying if he was a Jedi he would just come and take what he wants.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-10-20 01:43am

Mark S wrote:It seems that English (basic) and Huttese are the two most commonly used languages in the galaxy. It wouldn't be a stretch to have them bastardized together in the outer rim.

That could very well be, but it's not a given. How powerful and influential are the Hutts anyway?

It could be that the Hutts do have a great influence on the Galaxy, or it could be that our vast exposure to it is mainly due to the heavy focus on Tatooine in the films.

As far as "Basic" is concerned, perhaps it's simply the language of the Empire (and Republic) like Latin was to Rome.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

"Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

"Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

Re: "Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

Re: "Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"