Paul Hamm will keep gold medal

[BoredShirtless]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/m ... ml?cnn=yes

But why? The South Korean had his go scored out of 9.9, while Hamm had his out of 10. So what the fuck is going on here? This is total bullshit, isn't it?

[Alyeska]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/m ... ml?cnn=yes

But why? The South Korean had his go scored out of 9.9, while Hamm had his out of 10. So what the fuck is going on here? This is total bullshit, isn't it?

Incorrect. The way judging is done in the Olympics as well as medal scoring is good faith. Results are not changed unless there is a clear example of fraud. Be it intentional by the judges or dopping by the athelete.

As to the issue with Hamm and the South Korean. If you change the results the Korean who got 2nd now suddenly gets 3rd. And one more thing. If your going to rescore the Korean that means you have to rescore EVERYTHING. The Korean who got third but claims he deserved first forgets to mention the fact that the judges didn't mark him down for some mistakes as well. If the Korean is rejudged, he STILL gets 3rd place.

[BoredShirtless]

As to the issue with Hamm and the South Korean. If you change the results the Korean who got 2nd now suddenly gets 3rd.

So? It wasn't him doing the appealing; it was the guy in 3rd.

And one more thing. If your going to rescore the Korean that means you have to rescore EVERYTHING. The Korean who got third but claims he deserved first forgets to mention the fact that the judges didn't mark him down for some mistakes as well.

Source?

If the Korean is rejudged, he STILL gets 3rd place.

Uh, no, he actually gets first. Quoting the article, because I think you don't really get it:

The International Gymnastics Federation acknowledged the scoring error and suspended three judges. But it said repeatedly it would not change the results because the South Koreans didn't protest until after the meet.

[The Dude]

There's no question that the scoring error cost the Korean the gold. The honourable thing would have been for Hamm to offer to yield the medal.

[Jim Raynor]

During the Olympics on NBC, they pointed out (with video evidence) that the South Korean took four rest stops during on of his routines on the parallel bars. The rules call for a mandatory deduction if you take more than three, but the judges didn't hold it against him. That's why people are saying the Korean would've actually scored lower if they went back and fixed all the judging errors.

[The Kernel]

There's no question that the scoring error cost the Korean the gold. The honourable thing would have been for Hamm to offer to yield the medal.

You can't ask him to do that. It should be up to the IOC to resolve these things, it shouldn't depend on the players being pressured to give up the thing they trained for years for. That is putting unfair pressure on the players, plain and simple.

[The Dude]

You can't ask him to do that. It should be up to the IOC to resolve these things, it shouldn't depend on the players being pressured to give up the thing they trained for years for. That is putting unfair pressure on the players, plain and simple.

I'm not about to write him a letter demanding that he do it. The situation is not his fault, but he could have resolved it to most everyone's satisfaction and come out looking like a hero.

[HyperionX]

Why couldn't the IOC give both the gold medal?

[Alyeska]

There's no question that the scoring error cost the Korean the gold. The honourable thing would have been for Hamm to offer to yield the medal.

Incorrect. Had the Korean had his score properly adjusted he still would not have gotten the Gold medal because the judges failed to mark against two errors he made.

[Alyeska]

All throughout the Olympic coverage I saw the US Gynmastics association repeatedly pointed out the Korean made several mistakes the judges failed to score against. If the Korean had his score rejudged he still would not get the Gold.

You don't rejudge someone only on their mistakes that cost them points and ignore mistakes that gave them more points then they should have recieved.

[The Kernel]

I'm not about to write him a letter demanding that he do it. The situation is not his fault, but he could have resolved it to most everyone's satisfaction and come out looking like a hero.

Given what he went through to get those medals, I am not about to ask him to give them back, nor would I place the expectation that he should upon him. Hamm played by the rules and shouldn't be put in the position of being pressured to give up his medals. The responsibility lies squarely with the IOC and he has already said that if they ask him to give up his medal, he will do so.

[The Kernel]

Why couldn't the IOC give both the gold medal?

That's actually been the best suggestion offered so far (as an alternative to leaving it as is of course) but that decision is up to the IOC and they aren't likely to "open the floodgates" with such an action.

[Master of Ossus]

That's actually been the best suggestion offered so far (as an alternative to leaving it as is of course) but that decision is up to the IOC and they aren't likely to "open the floodgates" with such an action.

Right. They did it with the skating scandal only because in that instance there was clear evidence of judge collusion, not just judge error. It's one thing if a referee is ACTUALLY trying to throw a match, and something completely different if they just make a mistake.

[BoredShirtless]

Why couldn't the IOC give both the gold medal?

That's actually been the best suggestion offered so far (as an alternative to leaving it as is of course) but that decision is up to the IOC and they aren't likely to "open the floodgates" with such an action.

Actually, the US gymnastics association supported the idea. Hamm shot it down.

[BoredShirtless]

You don't rejudge someone only on their mistakes that cost them points and ignore mistakes that gave them more points then they should have recieved.

But Yang didn't make the mistake here. He was graded out of 9.9, not 10. In other words, the mistake in question had nothing to do with him or his performance in the routine.

[Iceberg]

You don't rejudge someone only on their mistakes that cost them points and ignore mistakes that gave them more points then they should have recieved.

But Yang didn't make the mistake here. He was graded out of 9.9, not 10. In other words, the mistake in question had nothing to do with him or his performance in the routine.

He made other mistakes that weren't judged, that's the point of the thing. If his whole score is re-judged, he might still not get the medal he wants anyway, and might actually have to return HIS medal for a bronze.

And it may turn out that Paul Hamm won the Gold anyway.

[BoredShirtless]

You don't rejudge someone only on their mistakes that cost them points and ignore mistakes that gave them more points then they should have recieved.

But Yang didn't make the mistake here. He was graded out of 9.9, not 10. In other words, the mistake in question had nothing to do with him or his performance in the routine.

He made other mistakes that weren't judged, that's the point of the thing. If his whole score is re-judged, he might still not get the medal he wants anyway, and might actually have to return HIS medal for a bronze.

And it may turn out that Paul Hamm won the Gold anyway.

But that's a different kind of mistake; routine based. This mistake had nothing to do with the routine, which is the difference the Koreans were trying to ride.

IMO routine mistakes should not be re-evaluated because it's just too hard [did he bend his arm? Judge A think so, judge B not, etc]. But scoring mistakes probably should be, and I guess are going by the fact the Koreans went ahead and appealed.

[Iceberg]

Since there was no impropriety, just a simple mistake in scoring, there's not much that can be done. It sounds cold, but that's sports, you ride the mistakes.

[Master of Ossus]

But that's a different kind of mistake; routine based. This mistake had nothing to do with the routine, which is the difference the Koreans were trying to ride.

IMO routine mistakes should not be re-evaluated because it's just too hard [did he bend his arm? Judge A think so, judge B not, etc]. But scoring mistakes probably should be, and I guess are going by the fact the Koreans went ahead and appealed.

Actually, no. His routine DID call for a fourth hold, which SHOULD have come saddled with an automatic two-tenths deduction. The Korean counter-argument is that he had used the routine in the past and had been judged out of ten (instead of 9.9), but that's basically an admission that if the judges slip up that slip-up is supposed to carry on to future judges. Except that they ALSO want decisions based on such matters to be overruled by the IOC.

In short, their position is contradictory. If he was re-scored PROPERLY, then he wouldn't have even gotten his bronze medal.