College girl killed by projectile.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2004-10-22 06:59pm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/index.html

Boston police accept 'full responsibility' in death of Red Sox fan
Woman killed by projectile fired to disperse crowds

Friday, October 22, 2004 Posted: 3:54 AM EDT (0754 GMT)
(CNN) -- The Boston Police Department "accepts full responsibility" for the death of a 21-year-old college student killed by a police projectile fired to disperse crowds celebrating the Boston Red Sox victory over the New York Yankees.

Preliminary findings indicate that Victoria Snelgrove, a journalism student at Emerson College, was hit in the eye by a projectile that disperses pepper spray on impact, Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said Thursday.

Snelgrove died at 12:50 p.m. at Brigham and Women's Hospital, hours after the overnight melee.

"The Boston Police Department is devastated by this tragedy. This terrible event should never have happened," O'Toole told reporters. "The Boston Police Department accepts full responsibility for the death of Victoria Snelgrove."

Outside the family home in East Bridgewater, Rick Snelgrove clutched a photograph of his daughter and said, "Awful things happen to good people, and my daughter was an exceptional person."

"What happened to her should not happen to any American citizen," he told reporters, fighting back tears. "She loved the Red Sox. She went in to celebrate with friends, she was a bystander. She was out of the way, but she still got shot."

Police have said some 60,000 to 80,000 people took to the streets in the area around Fenway Park late Wednesday. Although most were simply celebrating the 10-3 victory that thrust the Red Sox into the World Series for the first time since 1986, some in the crowd vandalized property, set fires and tried to overturn cars. At least eight people were arrested.

However, video from the scene where Snelgrove was struck showed the crowd in a joyous mood, slapping high fives and chanting celebratory Red Sox slogans. There were no signs of near-riotous conditions in that immediate vicinity although the area was crowded, and dozens of people near her stopped celebrating when they realized the severity of her injury and they tried to get help.

Snelgrove was sprawled out on the ground, with blood running down her face.

"This day, which should have been one of celebration, is heartbreakingly tragic," O'Toole said. "I can't imagine the grief that her family is suffering and express my deepest sympathy to them."

She said the officers involved were "devastated" and have been placed on leave pursuant to department policy. Their names will not be not disclosed until they are interviewed by investigators, she said.

O'Toole said she "firmly and emphatically" accepted responsibility for any errors officers may have made. But she condemned the "punks" she said turned a celebration of the pennant victory into a near-riot.

"The dreadful irony is that the use of less-lethal weapons is designed to reduce the risk of fatal injury," O'Toole said.

Snelgrove was a junior majoring in journalism at Emerson College, a small, four-year communications and performing arts college in Boston, said school spokesman David Rosen. She had transferred to the school last spring and was to turn 22 next week.

Rosen said Snelgrove's family was at her side when she died.

Unfortunate, especially if it was the result of police mishandling of the situation since the article seems to suggest that. I'd like to hear what the police did before unleashing the pepper spray though.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-22 08:32pm

However, video from the scene where Snelgrove was struck showed the crowd in a joyous mood, slapping high fives and chanting celebratory Red Sox slogans. There were no signs of near-riotous conditions in that immediate vicinity although the area was crowded, and dozens of people near her stopped celebrating when they realized the severity of her injury and they tried to get help.

if this is true the responsible cop needs to rot in prison.

Julhelm · Post by **Julhelm** » 2004-10-22 08:55pm

That's tragic =(

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-22 09:55pm

Seeing as the Police were attempting to disperse a rather destructive mob that was destroying private property I have to say the Police acted just fine. What happened was a freak accident where someone within the mob was hit in the wrong place. The Police do attempt to disperse mobs more peacefuly and only resort to these weapons when they refuse. Anyone within a mob is assumed to be their knowing the risk, taking part in the violence, and is absolved of innocence. Physchologicaly speaking this is very true. Mob mentality is very different then individual mentality and the mob feeds of itself.

Either she was part of the mob or should have known she was in a dangerous situation. No matter how you slice it the cops did nothing wrong.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-10-22 09:59pm

Alyeska wrote:Seeing as the Police were attempting to disperse a rather destructive mob that was destroying private property I have to say the Police acted just fine.

The Fucking Article wrote:However, video from the scene where Snelgrove was struck showed the crowd in a joyous mood, slapping high fives and chanting celebratory Red Sox slogans. There were no signs of near-riotous conditions in that immediate vicinity although the area was crowded, and dozens of people near her stopped celebrating when they realized the severity of her injury and they tried to get help.

Pwned.[/quote]

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-22 10:25pm

Then why did I see over turned cars in aother picture of what was going on...

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-10-22 10:31pm

Alyeska wrote:Then why did I see over turned cars in aother picture of what was going on...

Somewhere else entirely. In that particular area--as the article reads--there was no mob vandalizing anything.

I hope her family is compensated.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-10-22 10:41pm

How did the cop aimed to kill her,and at what speed does the ammo was ejected?

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-22 11:00pm

It's a tragic accident, but it's just that: an accident.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-10-23 12:54am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Then why did I see over turned cars in aother picture of what was going on...
Somewhere else entirely. In that particular area--as the article reads--there was no mob vandalizing anything.

I hope her family is compensated.

Considering that the police have accepted full responsibility for the tragic death I can only imagine they will settle for whatever is deemed reasonable.

Hopefully it was just an accident and some cop didn't try and hit someone on purpose.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-10-23 12:56am

Montcalm wrote:How did the cop aimed to kill her,and at what speed does the ammo was ejected?

The vague description of the weapon suggest that it was a basically a sort of modified paintball gun firing balls will with pepper spray. A lot of US police forces now have them. Killing someone with one is an incredibly freak event.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-23 01:00am

The chances of someone dying from that kind of ammunition is incredibly low. She had the worst luck imaginable.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-10-23 01:03am

Paintballs can go anywhere from 150fps to 400fps. This sounds like an incredibly freaky event. She was struck in the eye which would obviously destroy that eye, but to actually kill is a very low probability.

In fact, I would not be surprised if this is the first recorded death of from a paintball strike, pepper spray or not.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-23 01:05am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Paintballs can go anywhere from 150fps to 400fps. This sounds like an incredibly freaky event. She was struck in the eye which would obviously destroy that eye, but to actually kill is a very low probability.

In fact, I would not be surprised if this is the first recorded death of from a paintball strike, pepper spray or not.

It probably isn't the first, but the numbers are incredibly low.

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2004-10-23 01:25am

It probably isn't the first, but the numbers are incredibly low.

Actually, I believe this is the first death caused directly by being struck with a paintball/pepperball round. There are a couple of deaths out there that were caused by Co2 regs being unscrewed from the tanks, and turning into rockets. There are many incidents however of people being attacked by thugs using paintball guns. Eye hits are almost guaranteed to blind people.

There are a large number of threads about this incident on many paintball sites right now.

Typically, officers who uses these markers are trained to aim away from the eyes. The problem with the ones that uses Co2 as a propellent is that it can be horribly inconsistent. From personal experience on both giving and recieving end of paintballs, the muzzle velocity on those projectiles usually jump up an extra 50 fps. That extra boost can cause the paintball to go from stinging on contact, to full blown hurting like mad.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-23 01:29am

CO2 doesn't vary that much. Around 15 fps usually. The problem you have is the inconsistancy of the ammo and the aiming. The accuracy on paintballs isn't too high, unless you use a Boomstick, Freak, or some other pricey add-on. Cheaper barrels help, but you have to spend some coin to truely snipe. Also, the ammo sometimes pops, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't, it hurts like fucking hell. A non-popped paintball that didn't shoot straight is probably what happened.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-10-23 01:52am

what really ges me is that there is bone behind the eye socket. I cant think of a mechanism for death ther than a critcally fumbled fortitude save(basically died from shock)

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-23 05:14am

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:It's a tragic accident, but it's just that: an accident.

how is fiering into a friendly crowd with a potentially lethal weapon an accident?

now think of it this way. if this had not been a policeman but a student doing a prank with a paintball gun people would be screaming for the chair.

well, what´s the difference? the student does not wear a uniform. that´s the only difference.
the student would be imprisoned because he fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd with no reason but fun, aka no reason at all.
the cop fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd for no reason at all, too.

now if the crowd had not been a freindly crowd but an agressive crowd the situation would be different. the potential hazards from the crowd justify the use of weapons which are potentially lethal to minimum degree.

this cop is a murderer.

(all in case this article is correct. perhaps there´s more to it than it states.)

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-23 05:24am

salm wrote:
StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:It's a tragic accident, but it's just that: an accident.
how is fiering into a friendly crowd with a potentially lethal weapon an accident?

now think of it this way. if this had not been a policeman but a student doing a prank with a paintball gun people would be screaming for the chair.

well, what´s the difference? the student does not wear a uniform. that´s the only difference.
the student would be imprisoned because he fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd with no reason but fun, aka no reason at all.
the cop fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd for no reason at all, too.

now if the crowd had not been a freindly crowd but an agressive crowd the situation would be different. the potential hazards from the crowd justify the use of weapons which are potentially lethal to minimum degree.

this cop is a murderer.

(all in case this article is correct. perhaps there´s more to it than it states.)

Christ you're retarded. The chances of the projectile being lethal are nil. She caught those odds. And we give police a certain amount of leeway as to how they handle situations. That's why they're cops. They're not comparable to a student at all. And with rowdy, even peaceful rowdy, sports crowds, they can turn ugly in a flash. And also, have you ever fired a paintball gun? Because if you have, you know how much accuracy you can expect. Which is not very much.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-23 05:41am

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote: Christ you're retarded. The chances of the projectile being lethal are nil. She caught those odds.

irrelevant. even IF the chances that the projectile kill people are pretty much nil tthe chance that permanent eye damage is done is higher if you fire into a crowd of lots of people who are moving in uncontrolled ways.

And we give police a certain amount of leeway as to how they handle situations. That's why they're cops. They're not comparable to a student at all.

irrelevant. that doesn´t give the cop the right to fire at people who are not doing anything illegal at all.
there was absolutely no need at all to fire into that crowd so the student analogy is absolutely correct.

And with rowdy, even peaceful rowdy, sports crowds, they can turn ugly in a flash.

yeah, and it turned ugly. we all know why. because that fucktard decided to fire at a crowd of moving people for no reason at all.
your arguement is totally idiotic. you´re saying that because people might do something illegal in the future the cops should be allowed to shoot at them.

And also, have you ever fired a paintball gun? Because if you have, you know how much accuracy you can expect. Which is not very much.

one more reason for the cop being a total dickwipe. he knew that the paintball could basicly end up everywhere including peacful people´s eyes.

Post by **weemadando** » 2004-10-23 07:58am

What I want to see is a video of the 15 minutes before and then the 15 minutes after the event, because a couple of still photos ain't gonna convey the whole story and you can FUCKING GUARANTEE neither side is gonna tell the truth either.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-10-23 08:21am

similar events took place at UMASS-Dartmouth. The problem there is that the police actually ESCALATED the violence by lobbing tear gas.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-10-23 02:56pm

thats the college I plan to go to in 07.

interesting.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-10-23 03:00pm

salm wrote:
StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:It's a tragic accident, but it's just that: an accident.
how is fiering into a friendly crowd with a potentially lethal weapon an accident?

Firing it into the crowd WAS NOT an accident. The death of the girl was....

now think of it this way. if this had not been a policeman but a student doing a prank with a paintball gun people would be screaming for the chair.

well, what´s the difference? the student does not wear a uniform. that´s the only difference.
the student would be imprisoned because he fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd with no reason but fun, aka no reason at all.
the cop fired a potentially lethal weapon into a friendly crowd for no reason at all, too.

This is a retarded statement. Crowd control is not a students job, it is the job of a police officer. While the crowd didn't appear to be violent from one perspective it could have appeared to be violent from the officers perspective.

now if the crowd had not been a freindly crowd but an agressive crowd the situation would be different. the potential hazards from the crowd justify the use of weapons which are potentially lethal to minimum degree.

this cop is a murderer.

(all in case this article is correct. perhaps there´s more to it than it states.)

This cop is ONLY a murder if he intentionally hit the girl with the projectile. Anything else it was just a accident or maybe negligence. As I said before the crowd could have appeared hostile to the officer from his perspective.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2004-10-23 03:25pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:This cop is ONLY a murder if he intentionally hit the girl with the projectile. Anything else it was just a accident or maybe negligence.

Manslaughter most likely.