The Glorious Battle of the Bridge!

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-10-20 07:30am

Is there any advantage of assasinating a captain only to be replaced by another one?

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-20 07:35am

wautd wrote:Is there any advantage of assasinating a captain only to be replaced by another one?

Not a captain. Other than good practice for increasing your assassin's skill level. There is, however a HUGE advantage in killing a general. I mean fucking huge. I murdered an egyptian family member leading an army of better than 1k troops marching on my city (forget which city) where my garrison was 500 or so, (Including some town watch) and, therough effective harassing fire from archers, Improper use of siege engines and lots of patience, I was abel to rout the attackers, who, with their general would very likely have razed my precious middleastern shithole to the ground.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-10-20 04:25pm

My Greek faction leader fights a battle at the very gates of Rome, with his experienced cadre of archers, Greek Cavalry, and hoplites. He's getting a little on in the years, but he's got a bit of experience against the Romans, having beaten them before the gates of Syracuse, then before Messana, then within Messana, then crossing over to beat the Brutii outside Croton, then seizing Croton and Tarentum and Capua (goodbye Scipii)... and now marching on Rome.

As you can see, he's solidly outnumbered and the enemy commanders are no slouches. Their army is a fairly complete pre-Marian arrangement, with cavalry, velites, hastati, principes, and triarii--all rather experienced.

And of course I demolish them. I first deploy my forces to catch the 300 reinforcements that were trying to menace my flanks, and having crushed them, I double time my Hoplites to meet the rest of their army, and my cavalry smashes their rear and kills poor Servius Maxentius.

I think about 200 of them escaped to defend Rome the next turn. My losses were about 100 men.

----

Here's the battle result that finished the Julii faction. I laid siege to Mediolanum in North Italy, their last city, which was full up with Roman soldiers, and they sallied to attack me. Simple hammer and anvil tactics, aided by my highly experienced two-unit archery section.

Then I finished the Brutii off when they sallied from their last city of Patavium. Poor Dionysius the Mighty died the turn before, but the zero-star captain proved up to the task of eliminating the 8-star Cassius the Honest

...

Right now I'm embroiled in Anatolia with my main armies, having absolutely eradicated the Pontians. Apparently Pontic armies are composed of Eastern infantry supporting melee cavalry... they might as well be pissing into the wind against the Greek force structure. I assaulted Sardis, which was completely full of Pontic troops, with four units of Armored Hoplites... I lost the battle because my men ran out of time. The casualties were something like 800:50 in my favor. Then the Egyptians attacked...

But I've already fought this war, as the Brutii. What I want to do is move into Gaul and Spain, so I'll just seize the remainder of Asia Minor and try to peace the Egyptians.

EDIT:
Does anyone else notice that the Roman AI really loves Velites? I think my overwhelming victories in the Julii and Brutii final engagements can be attributed to the fact that nearly half their army was Velites.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-21 01:49am

My glorious forces were besieging a Parthian city. An army led by their king attacked me, trying to raise the siege. Seing his army approach mine. I dispatched a unit of elephants and a unit of Greek cavalry as reinforcements. They did not reach the army in time, but they were close enough to be counted as reinforcements.

While setting up my army, I've chosen a perfect position for defense. There was a hill, with a bunch or rocks on one side, making it impenetrable. I've then set up my levy pikemen in a semicircle, with the gaps filled by my cavalry. This took care of the problem of the enemy's reliving army, which would have otherwise appeared on the battlefield behind my troops.

Now, my elephants and cavalry appeared on the field behind their lines. Now, this was of no real importance, other than my little hill, there were no such things as "front" or "back". Anyways, the enemy tried to send some horse arches to shoot my units on the hill, while being protected by the very same pile of rocks that prevented an attack from that side. My elephants and cavalry quicly caught up with them and routed them. The enemy then had to divert more and more men to deal with them. By the end of the battle, the elephants and the cavalry destroyed or routed 2 units of horse archers, 3 units of Eastern Infantry, 1 unit of slingers. The elephants sustained 2 casualties (which were then healed at the end of battle), while the cavalry was reduced to 17 men. However, despite killin 209 units of the enemy, my elephants gained no experience.

Anyways, on the hill, my phalanx units stood their ground, killing anything in range. The enemy was forced to attack in the gaps between the phalanxes, where they became easy prey for my own cavalry. Soon, both the enemy king, and the general of the besieged army were dead, and their army was annihilated.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-10-21 02:04am

have you ever tried training an elephant to do anything?

damn hard..

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-22 11:29pm

I've decided to test a theory of mine about the power of the phalanx. So, I've set up as many units of silver shield legionaires as I could get, and made them fight the largest amount of enemy units mu computer can support. The result?

How did I do it? I've arranged my phalanx in 2 lines, one facing forward, the other facing backward. There was also a unit on each side protecting the flanks. The enemy then proceeded to storm my formation. As you can see, they all died a horrible painful death. There were 4 layers of bodies in some areas. It was quite...astounding.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-23 12:23am

About half-way through the battle

You can see the enemy's final attack here.

The enemy is routing

The dead: layer upon layer upon layer.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-10-23 02:24am

I imagine such a formation could be disrupted and shot to pieces by horse archers and skirmishers.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-10-23 02:52am

HemlockGrey wrote:I imagine such a formation could be disrupted and shot to pieces by horse archers and skirmishers.

Or just about any unit with a ranged attack. Siege weapons could be especially devastating.

Fgalkin: why did you break formation with that one unit towards the end of the battle? Was the cowardly enemy attempting to flee the action?

Also, what would've happened if you had done that on a hill, or other ground more favorable to the defender? Can you create any Thermopylae-style defenses, where even more horrifically outnumbered silver shields hold out against spectacular odds?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-10-23 03:08am

I have to say, my fun with RTW has peaked, due to the FUCKING HORRID
squalor bullshit!

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-23 05:05am

MKSheppard wrote:I have to say, my fun with RTW has peaked, due to the FUCKING HORRID
squalor bullshit!

It doesn't bother me. I'm about 10 territories away from victory. Just build town watch. It's not like you'll run out of money.

So, I've set up as many units of silver shield legionaires as I could get

You mean hoplites, right?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-10-23 07:05am

Vympel wrote:It doesn't bother me. I'm about 10 territories away from victory. Just build town watch. It's not like you'll run out of money.

I'm facing cash crunches regularly

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-23 10:18am

MKSheppard wrote:I'm facing cash crunches regularly

You probably don't have enough cities with Dockyards and Temples of Mercury. I've never been at the point where building town watch has hurt my wallet. Praetorian/Urban Cohorts, yeah, but not town watch for cripes sake. Fark, build peasants.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-24 12:28am

Master of Ossus wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:I imagine such a formation could be disrupted and shot to pieces by horse archers and skirmishers.
Or just about any unit with a ranged attack. Siege weapons could be especially devastating.

True, but misslie cavalry in sufficient numbers will pwn infantry any day. And the fact that Onagers vs Phalanx is bad is also well known. However, all of this applies to a regular phalanx formation as well. What I was testing here is a formation for situations where you're outnumbered and/or surrounded, and have no chance to screen the your flanks and rear.

Fgalkin: why did you break formation with that one unit towards the end of the battle? Was the cowardly enemy attempting to flee the action?

Eh? Which pic are you referring to?

Also, what would've happened if you had done that on a hill, or other ground more favorable to the defender? Can you create any Thermopylae-style defenses, where even more horrifically outnumbered silver shields hold out against spectacular odds?

Actually, this was on a small hill. it is possible to use a large hill to your advantage, but the preferable formation there is a large circle, with non-phalanx units on the inside. I haven't seen a map where a thremopylae-like scenario is possible, but if it existed, I would suspect it takes place in mountanous terrain.

Vympel wrote:You mean hoplites, right?

Yes, I meant Silver Shield Pikemen.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-10-24 01:10am

now if it was't for the infaqmous shoot my allies in the back, problem. I would say that Fglaughlin had just made a good point for inventing the english square several centuries early....

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-10-24 04:58am

Like the intro movie for the Britons, especially as it reminds me of something else....

"There can be no peace, no peace with Romans; men of stone, iron, and lies! There can be only war!"

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 06:50am

I got a goddamned question. I had one, count em, one city churning out Triarii and managed to eke out about 10 units of them before the Marian reforms. What the hell is the replacement unit for them? I want my fucking spearmen back!!! Those guys are pure fucking gold, I get scared to use em in combat. They saw action at the battle of alexandria and the razing of thebes, but I wanna keep em around! Helpsessssss ussss preciousssss

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-25 06:57am

Chardok wrote:I got a goddamned question. I had one, count em, one city churning out Triarii and managed to eke out about 10 units of them before the Marian reforms. What the hell is the replacement unit for them? I want my fucking spearmen back!!! Those guys are pure fucking gold, I get scared to use em in combat. They saw action at the battle of alexandria and the razing of thebes, but I wanna keep em around! Helpsessssss ussss preciousssss

Auxilia. They're your new spear-equipped unit.

The "three-line" pre-Marian Order of Battle is finished. Now it's all Legionary Cohorts and Auxilia of various types.

You'll want to immediately disband those Triarii, and build up a force structure like mine:

- 4x Legionary Cohort*: the main killing work
- 3x Auxilia: screen the flanks and centre from cavalry charges
- 1x Light Auxilia: for skirmishing
- 1x Cavalry Auxilia: for skirmishing/ chasing down routers
- 1x Roman Cavalry: for chasing down routers
- 2x Legionary/Praetorian Cavalry: for crushing the enemy
- 2x Praetorian/Urban Cohort: only commit if necessary, lethal
- 1x Roman General: self explanatory
- 2x Archer Auxilia: don't start a battle without them
- 2x Onager/ Heavy Onager: don't leave home without it

* I didn't bother with Early Legionary Cohort (with Lorica Hamata armor), as all my troop-building cities already had the facilities for the superior Legionary Cohorts (i.e. the 'classic' armor type)

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 07:00am

on another note, FGalkin's power phalanx looks good except for it's lack of missile defense.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-25 07:02am

Chardok wrote:on another note, FGalkin's power phalanx looks good except for it's lack of missile defense.

Peltasts and Archers would fix that I suppose. And some Greek Cavalry to chase off enemy missile units.

Oh, edit to the above post- I found Triarii were rarely necessary to commit to the battle. Rarely did I have a use for these spearmen guys. I find the Auxilia are easier to commit, since the building requirements aren't so high , I can replenish losses more easily.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 07:13am

See, but I'm a moron. I thought Auxilia were a replacement for town watch and I rarely brought them into a fight except for breaking sieges, and those I usually auto resolve. And as for me, I'm a big fan of spearmen, epecially for punching through the initial line of troops in a wall breach. failing spearmen, I''ll charge it with cavalry, to gain a foothold, run in about 150m, and double back to hit the guard unit from behind. Then it's bustin' out time for the cohorts. they go straight up to the walls and take out the defending archers. it's just ugly wo watch gold-shield/sword legionairres tear into a unit of trapped archers.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-10-25 08:32am

Vympel wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:I'm facing cash crunches regularly
You probably don't have enough cities with Dockyards and Temples of Mercury. I've never been at the point where building town watch has hurt my wallet. Praetorian/Urban Cohorts, yeah, but not town watch for cripes sake. Fark, build peasants.

Lotsa traderights don't hurt either

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-10-25 09:00am

Why are you obsessed with disbanding perfectly good units before you've trained a replacement army, Vympel? As the Brutii, I kept making a new army every 10 years or so in my Italian cities and I'd ship it off to Greece or Anatolia to conquer stuff. Once I got the Marian reforms, I finished a half-built army up with cohorts and send that off, too. The other armies performed fine and I would supplement them with new units as older ones died off. Soon, those armies were nearly converted and I didn't suffer any inactivity due to retraining my entire military.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-10-25 09:48am

The Battle of the Teutoberg forest scenario was surprisingly easy, I found. Eat that, Varus.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 10:32am

StarshipTitanic wrote:Why are you obsessed with disbanding perfectly good units before you've trained a replacement army, Vympel? As the Brutii, I kept making a new army every 10 years or so in my Italian cities and I'd ship it off to Greece or Anatolia to conquer stuff. Once I got the Marian reforms, I finished a half-built army up with cohorts and send that off, too. The other armies performed fine and I would supplement them with new units as older ones died off. Soon, those armies were nearly converted and I didn't suffer any inactivity due to retraining my entire military.

I Usually, I'll prefer Vympel's method, as it doesn't run the risk of making new enemies when the people I'm conquering make treaties with other nations