Nemesis: we don't need no stinkin continuity!!!

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 11:44am

Marina Sirtis, who reprises the role of Counselor Troi in the upcoming Star Trek Nemesis movie, told SCI FI Wire that it was a "different" experience working with Stuart Baird, a director new to the Trek universe. Baird assumed the director's chair from Next Generation co-star Jonathan Frakes, who directed the previous Trek films First Contact and Insurrection. "Stuart doesn't have the knowledge of Star Trek that anyone who's been involved with the show—whether it's Jonathan or even [TNG and Generations director] David Carson or the actors—would just naturally have," Sirtis said in an interview. "We have butted heads a little bit, because we'll say, 'This is the history,' and Stuart will say, 'Well, I don't really care about the history. I'm approaching this like it's the first Star Trek movie.'"

Sirtis added, "I don't think anybody's really done that before. I think it's going to be interesting to see how it turns out. I think it's possibly a good way to approach it, to have a new voice in there who's not locked into the past. It might bring some freshness to the franchise that it might not necessarily have had otherwise. The risk is that you could go too far away from what people want and expect. But hopefully it's somewhere in between. You had the actors saying, 'My character wouldn't do that or say that,' and I'm sure [producer] Rick [Berman] talked to Stuart about not straying too far from what's worked for so long. And [screenwriter] John Logan certainly knows the show inside and out. So if it's fresh and familiar at the same time, we could really be on to something." Star Trek Nemesis opens in December.

from scifiwire. The again, maybe a fresh director is a GOOD thing.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-05 11:45am

'Well, I don't really care about the history. I'm approaching this like it's the first Star Trek movie.'"
I don't think anybody's really done that before

*cougheveryfuckingdirectorwhoeverwroteastartrekmoviecough*

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-05 11:46am

'Well, I don't really care about the history."

Nuff said.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-05 11:51am

IIRC John Logan was telling standard Trek writers "No, you can't put that in the movie, they said you couldn't do that in episode #, so thats why you can't do that". So while this might be an idiot director, there was a good screenwriter to get the basic story down fitting in with the continuity.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-05 11:51am

Sounds a lot like "The continuity is airtight." to me.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 11:53am

I just really hope it's actually good. WOK was on Encore tonight. I watched it and felt really nostalgic ...

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2002-11-05 12:52pm

I hope it's good. I want it to be good. But I don't think it will be. It may be an even numbered movie, but really, 2 of the 3 TNG movies have been really bad and only one has even been mediocre. From what I've read of the script, it could very well be awful. Oh well. I suppose I'll go the weekend it opens and find out.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-05 12:53pm

RedImperator wrote:I hope it's good. I want it to be good. But I don't think it will be. It may be an even numbered movie, but really, 2 of the 3 TNG movies have been really bad and only one has even been mediocre. From what I've read of the script, it could very well be awful. Oh well. I suppose I'll go the weekend it opens and find out.

Two of the three TNG movies have been bad because 2 of the three TNG movies were ODD numbered movies. Of the first three TOS movies, only one of them was really any good.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-05 02:07pm

The guy who directed WOK wasn't a Star Trek guy and he did a good job. Some fresh ideas hopefully can make this new movie not suck. Somehow, I don't have much hope though.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-11-05 02:18pm

I guess an interesting question in regard to the debates is whether ST can now truly have a canon as SW does. If movie directors and B&B no longer really give a shit about continuity and instead would rather focus on entertainment can it be argued then that there is no solid ST canon at least through DS9 and Voyager?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-05 02:21pm

This is a very old article. And was already posted here several months ago.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-06 10:10pm

Alyeska wrote:
RedImperator wrote:I hope it's good. I want it to be good. But I don't think it will be. It may be an even numbered movie, but really, 2 of the 3 TNG movies have been really bad and only one has even been mediocre. From what I've read of the script, it could very well be awful. Oh well. I suppose I'll go the weekend it opens and find out.
Two of the three TNG movies have been bad because 2 of the three TNG movies were ODD numbered movies. Of the first three TOS movies, only one of them was really any good.

Being odd numbered doesn't mean jack shit, it just means there's been an incredible coincidence.

Generations was bad because of stupid errors in the plot, and of the back-asswards method of "we want the Enterprise and Kirk to get killed. How do we do this?".
Insurrection was "bad" because the action wasn't quite up to par with First Contact. If you look at it, the plot isn't any more mindless than First Contact's plot.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-06 10:52pm

Uraniun235 wrote: Insurrection was "bad" because the action wasn't quite up to par with First Contact. If you look at it, the plot isn't any more mindless than First Contact's plot.

Woah... are you implying that Insurrection had a PLOT

Seriously though - Insurrection sucked because the entire plot centered around saving the small-town folksy people(tm). Really, who gives a SHIT about small-town folksy people(tm) when they're sitting on top of the fountain of youth? Oh wait - the United Federation of Pussies, who cannot stand forceful relocation of a mere 600 people yet have no compunction against allowing billions of people to die in natural disasters because of their idiotic prime directive.

Idiots.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-11-06 11:04pm

I really don't give a fuck about Trek's continuity either. I want to turn on Enterprise and see Archer punch a Romulan in the face.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-06 11:09pm

data_link wrote: Seriously though - Insurrection sucked because the entire plot centered around saving the small-town folksy people(tm). Really, who gives a SHIT about small-town folksy people(tm) when they're sitting on top of the fountain of youth? Oh wait - the United Federation of Pussies, who cannot stand forceful relocation of a mere 600 people yet have no compunction against allowing billions of people to die in natural disasters because of their idiotic prime directive.

Idiots.

Not the UFP...Picard...which makes it all the worse

Picard put the lives of 600 over the Billions of the Federation because he got a woodie from seeing one woman.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-06 11:59pm

I'm seriously concerned about this interview. The Director appears to have ignored his actors, and people who clearly knew their own characters better than he knew them.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-07 12:00am

Ghost Rider wrote:
data_link wrote: Seriously though - Insurrection sucked because the entire plot centered around saving the small-town folksy people(tm). Really, who gives a SHIT about small-town folksy people(tm) when they're sitting on top of the fountain of youth? Oh wait - the United Federation of Pussies, who cannot stand forceful relocation of a mere 600 people yet have no compunction against allowing billions of people to die in natural disasters because of their idiotic prime directive.

Idiots.
Not the UFP...Picard...which makes it all the worse

Picard put the lives of 600 over the Billions of the Federation because he got a woodie from seeing one woman.

Exactly. The same Picard that followed his orders in "The Wounded" despite his knowledge that Maxwell was correct? It was completely out of character for him.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-11-07 12:02am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
data_link wrote: Seriously though - Insurrection sucked because the entire plot centered around saving the small-town folksy people(tm). Really, who gives a SHIT about small-town folksy people(tm) when they're sitting on top of the fountain of youth? Oh wait - the United Federation of Pussies, who cannot stand forceful relocation of a mere 600 people yet have no compunction against allowing billions of people to die in natural disasters because of their idiotic prime directive.

Idiots.
Not the UFP...Picard...which makes it all the worse

Picard put the lives of 600 over the Billions of the Federation because he got a woodie from seeing one woman.
Exactly. The same Picard that followed his orders in "The Wounded" despite his knowledge that Maxwell was correct? It was completely out of character for him.

Maybe he actually LEARNED something from Kirk

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-07 12:09am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
data_link wrote: Seriously though - Insurrection sucked because the entire plot centered around saving the small-town folksy people(tm). Really, who gives a SHIT about small-town folksy people(tm) when they're sitting on top of the fountain of youth? Oh wait - the United Federation of Pussies, who cannot stand forceful relocation of a mere 600 people yet have no compunction against allowing billions of people to die in natural disasters because of their idiotic prime directive.

Idiots.
Not the UFP...Picard...which makes it all the worse

Picard put the lives of 600 over the Billions of the Federation because he got a woodie from seeing one woman.
Exactly. The same Picard that followed his orders in "The Wounded" despite his knowledge that Maxwell was correct? It was completely out of character for him.

Picard put the imortal lives of 600 higher then the dubious claim of merely doubling Federation citizen life spans. Picard put the sovereignty of a nation on a higher status then the right of the Federation to meddle out of greed.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-11-07 12:27am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Sounds a lot like "The continuity is airtight." to me.

At least the man's honest about it. Unlike a certain duo of evil*cough*B&B*cough*.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-07 12:50am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Sounds a lot like "The continuity is airtight." to me.
At least the man's honest about it. Unlike a certain duo of evil*cough*B&B*cough*.

Honesty is irrelevent, IMO. It is the result that matters.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-07 01:02am

Alyeska wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote: Not the UFP...Picard...which makes it all the worse

Picard put the lives of 600 over the Billions of the Federation because he got a woodie from seeing one woman.
Exactly. The same Picard that followed his orders in "The Wounded" despite his knowledge that Maxwell was correct? It was completely out of character for him.
Picard put the imortal lives of 600 higher then the dubious claim of merely doubling Federation citizen life spans. Picard put the sovereignty of a nation on a higher status then the right of the Federation to meddle out of greed.

The Baku's lives were never at stake. The original plan was relocation, not extermination. So not only does he risk killing 600 people in his attempt to show off his moral superiority, but he also guarantees the death of the thousands of people whose lives might have been saved by metaphasics in the near future. I'm sure it comforted the man dying of (insert strange alien disease here) that his sacrifice was allowing 600 people to live their small-town folksy lifestyle in peace. But isn't that what the Prime Directive is all about - letting people die so that you can claim moral superiority over everyone else.

As I said - idiots.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-07 01:59am

It's all talked about on Mike's site.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Insurrection/index.html

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-07 09:59am

data_link wrote:The Baku's lives were never at stake. The original plan was relocation, not extermination. So not only does he risk killing 600 people in his attempt to show off his moral superiority, but he also guarantees the death of the thousands of people whose lives might have been saved by metaphasics in the near future. I'm sure it comforted the man dying of (insert strange alien disease here) that his sacrifice was allowing 600 people to live their small-town folksy lifestyle in peace. But isn't that what the Prime Directive is all about - letting people die so that you can claim moral superiority over everyone else.

As I said - idiots.

They were going to be relocated out of the system where they would have no longer hade their imortality. That might as well be extermination.

I'm sure that dying man doesn't give a rats ass that his government violated the sovereignty of another. That his greed to live a little longer ensured the deaths of others. That his way of life was that more important then other peoples.

Agreed, this isn't about the Prime Directive. This is about national Sovereignty and it is wrong to crush someone elses sovereignty out of pure greed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-07 10:33am

Alyeska wrote:
data_link wrote:The Baku's lives were never at stake. The original plan was relocation, not extermination. So not only does he risk killing 600 people in his attempt to show off his moral superiority, but he also guarantees the death of the thousands of people whose lives might have been saved by metaphasics in the near future. I'm sure it comforted the man dying of (insert strange alien disease here) that his sacrifice was allowing 600 people to live their small-town folksy lifestyle in peace. But isn't that what the Prime Directive is all about - letting people die so that you can claim moral superiority over everyone else.

As I said - idiots.
They were going to be relocated out of the system where they would have no longer hade their imortality. That might as well be extermination.

I'm sure that dying man doesn't give a rats ass that his government violated the sovereignty of another. That his greed to live a little longer ensured the deaths of others. That his way of life was that more important then other peoples.

Agreed, this isn't about the Prime Directive. This is about national Sovereignty and it is wrong to crush someone elses sovereignty out of pure greed.

Well, it was really the Sona that wanted to tap the Baku system's metaphasic particles. Starfleet was just allowing it to take place. The Baku/Sona issue was really an internal squable and not one nation attacking another sovereign nation. The Baku and Sona were the same species, remember? That being the case, the UFP should have let the Sona do what they wanted and then help the Sona transform the Metaphasic particles into a usuable form. There was no need for Picard to get involved in another species dispute. The Baku were not native to that star system anyways. They weren't "meant" to be immortal in the first place. The Sona had just as much a right to utilize those particles to save themselves and trillions of other sentient beings.

Picard's reasoning was more selfish than anything else. Picard was thinking with his little "friend" and his future retirement planet instead of the good of the Federation as a whole.