[Talon Karride]The unflappable delusions of many Republicans

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-10-25 01:43pm

SirNitram wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:George W. Bush is a man who has never seen combat
Only because he never ended up getting sent there. It doesn't really matter that he checked a box saying I don't want to go overseas. If the Air Force decided that they needed that squadron, they would have sent it over. And of course, since Bush later did volunteer to get sent over, but was turned down due to lack of flight hours, does this whole thing even matter?
Let me get this straight. Because he was in a unit which would never get sent, because he volunteered when not having enough flight hours(It can't be that the flight hour requirements were secret, were they?), and because he nipped off to work on a campaign while on the militaries clock, it all doesn't matter? I've heard some whacky excuses, but I suppose if you refuse to let go of the era, you make up whatever you can to excuse your guy while being able to go after the other..

In today's USAF (given that that's what I'm familiar with), nearly everthing is waiverable. If his chain of command really though he should go, I'm sure they could have gotten a waiver for the flight hours. As for the campaign... You think he worked full time for the Texas ANG? 'Course not. He had something else to do for a living. It wasn't the military's clock, but his own.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-25 04:30pm

Talon Karrde wrote:Who the hell has tried to "explain" away his service in Vietnam?

The people who say that he wasn't brave enough or wasn't wounded badly enough to warrant his citations. It's an obvious tactic to try and nullify its value.

That's never been the point, and you trying to make it that doesn't change the fact.

Oh really? What is the "point" of these attacks on his record then, if not to marginalize the fact that Kerry went and Bush didn't? I'd love to hear it.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-25 04:34pm

Beowulf wrote:In today's USAF (given that that's what I'm familiar with), nearly everthing is waiverable. If his chain of command really though he should go, I'm sure they could have gotten a waiver for the flight hours. As for the campaign... You think he worked full time for the Texas ANG? 'Course not. He had something else to do for a living. It wasn't the military's clock, but his own.

Did this orgy of waivers extend back thirty years? I've heard about the Air Force having masses of paperwork, but I thought it was very recent.

In any case, I find it extremely unlikely he would have volunteered if he thought he would actually go, given his work in the campaign. This is mostly suspicion, fueled by watching four years of this guy with actual power. 'He applied but, oh no, he wasn't quite there, let's give him a sucker for effort' rings very oddly in my ears after this time.

acesand8s · Post by **acesand8s** » 2004-10-25 04:45pm

I've seen a lot of this delusional attitude on both sides of the spectrum. I'm sure many of us have had the pleasure of visiting Rapture Ready and laughing at the insanity that goes on there. I spent some time lurking on Internet Infidels, thinking that the exact opposite would be 100% better, only to discover that many of the people in the Political Discussions forum (the scientific parts of II, on the otherhand, are simply phenomenonal) were as insane as the people on RR. Politics on both boards largely revolve around conspiracies on the part of people on the other end of the political spectrum to destroy them. Perhaps there are more conservatives than liberals that work in this delusional manner; I don't know, I've never done an exact count. Maybe that it's just there are more radical Republicans than radical Democrats.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-25 04:48pm

acesand8s wrote:I've seen a lot of this delusional attitude on both sides of the spectrum. I'm sure many of us have had the pleasure of visiting Rapture Ready and laughing at the insanity that goes on there. I spent some time lurking on Internet Infidels, thinking that the exact opposite would be 100% better, only to discover that many of the people in the Political Discussions forum (the scientific parts of II, on the otherhand, are simply phenomenonal) were as insane as the people on RR. Politics on both boards largely revolve around conspiracies on the part of people on the other end of the political spectrum to destroy them. Perhaps there are more conservatives than liberals that work in this delusional manner; I don't know, I've never done an exact count. Maybe that it's just there are more radical Republicans than radical Democrats.

The insane Republicans have an entire 24-hour news network, with good ratings; there are obviously more of them. Say what you will about webboards, but there is no left-wing equivalent to FOXNews.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-25 04:59pm

The insane Republicans have an entire 24-hour news network, with good ratings; there are obviously more of them. Say what you will about webboards, but there is no left-wing equivalent to FOXNews.

... says the insane Liberal.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-25 05:00pm

Axis Kast wrote:
The insane Republicans have an entire 24-hour news network, with good ratings; there are obviously more of them. Say what you will about webboards, but there is no left-wing equivalent to FOXNews.
... says the insane Liberal.

Because there's always room for a Tu Quoue fallacy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-25 05:02pm

Axis Kast wrote:
The insane Republicans have an entire 24-hour news network, with good ratings; there are obviously more of them. Say what you will about webboards, but there is no left-wing equivalent to FOXNews.
... says the insane Liberal.

Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-10-25 05:43pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Axis Kast wrote:
The insane Republicans have an entire 24-hour news network, with good ratings; there are obviously more of them. Say what you will about webboards, but there is no left-wing equivalent to FOXNews.
... says the insane Liberal.
Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?

In all fairness, you are a liberal

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-10-25 06:06pm

Talon Karrde wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Axis Kast wrote: ... says the insane Liberal.
Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?
In all fairness, you are a liberal

Notice how he didn't question that portion of the statement, moron.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-25 06:41pm

Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?

There are, what, eight or ten true, blue conservatives on this board, not less than seven of which have their heads shoved so far up your ass, they can no longer be counted as individual people? Hell, at least two of the particularly avid conservatives start their own contradicting arguments with, "Well, I wholeheartedly agree with Wong, but...," masking their dissent lest they suddenly face a real argument.

SD.net is one big wankfest where poster after poster kisses your ass as you claim to be facilitating "rational" discourse while making out the Republican platform to be "piss all over the common man." That's about as fair a statement as suggesting that every Democrat wants to eschew personal responsibility and erect a Communist edifice in the place of our current financial system.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-10-25 07:09pm

Axis Kast wrote:There are, what, eight or ten true, blue conservatives on this board, not less than seven of which have their heads shoved so far up your ass, they can no longer be counted as individual people? Hell, at least two of the particularly avid conservatives start their own contradicting arguments with, "Well, I wholeheartedly agree with Wong, but...," masking their dissent lest they suddenly face a real argument.

SD.net is one big wankfest where poster after poster kisses your ass as you claim to be facilitating "rational" discourse while making out the Republican platform to be "piss all over the common man." That's about as fair a statement as suggesting that every Democrat wants to eschew personal responsibility and erect a Communist edifice in the place of our current financial system.

Claps…you are so right Kast, I see it now what with all the ass kissing conservatives who never dare disagree with our great leader and all the ‘insane liberal’ drones Wong has surrounded himself with you're really the only person in N&P who makes any sense. From hence forth I shall escew the Church of Wong and only read your posts all the rest are just so much ass kissing liberal drivel.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2004-10-25 07:21pm

Okay, hands up....who's been expecting Axi to blow for quite a while now?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-25 07:24pm

Claps…you are so right Kast, I see it now what with all the ass kissing conservatives who never dare disagree with our great leader and all the ‘insane liberal’ drones Wong has surrounded himself with you're really the only person in N&P who makes any sense. From hence forth I shall escew the Church of Wong and only read your posts all the rest are just so much ass kissing liberal drivel.

Which is why I've made it clear more than once that I stand in total favor of gay marriage (not mere "unions"), that I strongly support affirmative action, that I support choice, and that I favor common sense gun-control (you might be interested to know that, in part because of discussion with people here, I've reduced my opposition to gun ownership in general to a call for better-organized registration and mandatory gun safety classes). But, of course, for people on this board, my support of the President's foreign and economic policy constitutes nothing less than "blind following."

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-10-25 07:26pm

* Why do they so strongly oppose high taxes for the wealthy? Because they all think they're going to be wealthy someday, or because they're already wealthy, or because their parents are wealthy. And the people who don't make that much money obviously didn't try hard enough, so they're beneath contempt. Fuck 'em.

Some of my professors for political science tried to tell is that if you tax the rich so much, then they will just outsorce their jobs to save money. I don't really know anything bout it though.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-25 07:42pm

Axis Kast wrote:But, of course, for people on this board, my support of the President's foreign and economic policy constitutes nothing less than "blind following."

Yea, observing your posts and the dogged resistance to anything but praise for Bush's utter failures in diplomacy and the economy kind of leave one with that impression. You, of course, just shriek and wail about Liberals.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-10-25 08:18pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Claps…you are so right Kast, I see it now what with all the ass kissing conservatives who never dare disagree with our great leader and all the ‘insane liberal’ drones Wong has surrounded himself with you're really the only person in N&P who makes any sense. From hence forth I shall escew the Church of Wong and only read your posts all the rest are just so much ass kissing liberal drivel.
Which is why I've made it clear more than once that I stand in total favor of gay marriage (not mere "unions"), that I strongly support affirmative action, that I support choice, and that I favor common sense gun-control (you might be interested to know that, in part because of discussion with people here, I've reduced my opposition to gun ownership in general to a call for better-organized registration and mandatory gun safety classes).

Err you do realise that I was taking the piss in that last post of mine don’t you?

I’m well aware that you are a Neo-con ideologue who’s prepared to totally ignore Bush’s cruel, intolerant and disastrous social policies and his attempts to install an defacto theocracy in the US so long as he’s able to keep the religious right voting for his equally disastrous neo-con inspired economic and crucially for you of course his foreign policy.

But, of course, for people on this board, my support of the President's foreign and economic policy constitutes nothing less than "blind following."

With you it’s a case of selective blindness you are quite prepared to look the other way whilst Bush attempts to pass constitutional amendments to persecute gays for example and introduces a plethora of other divisive and intolerant social policies IN YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY so long as he continues to follow the quite frankly insane neo-con foreign policy of agitating unnecessary wars in the middle east.

I personally find it mind boggling that you are more concerned with spurious WMD in Iraq, Iran and elsewhere, which clearly pose no real danger to the US, than the harm Bush is doing to the social fabric and governmental institutions IN YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY which truly do pose a clear and present danger to the US.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2004-10-25 08:19pm

Axis Kast wrote:But, of course, for people on this board, my support of the President's foreign and economic policy constitutes nothing less than "blind following."

The point ------->
Your head

Lots of wooshing sounds ensue.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-10-25 08:19pm

I certainly hope this isn't envocative of the two groups as a whole, but on this board, at the very least, it seems that the liberals are willing to bitch about everyone's mistakes, while the conservatives ignore anything their beloved beauracrats do, focusing only on the eeeevil left-wingers.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-25 08:29pm

Bush isn’t the motive force behind social change in the United States; if he passes that amendment, it’ll be as much because the public voted into Congress conservative representatives as because the President has identified an amendment banning gay marriage as one essential element of his proposed platform.

Furthermore, unlike those on SD.net who appear to see Bible-thumping proto-fascists around every corner, I view Bush’s attempts to court religion as intelligence political maneuvers, not as a sign that we’re headed toward a theocracy.

Furthermore, Plekhanov, if you believe WMD in Iran pose no threat to the United States, you’re more blind than I originally presumed.

I certainly hope this isn't envocative of the two groups as a whole, but on this board, at the very least, it seems that the liberals are willing to bitch about everyone's mistakes, while the conservatives ignore anything their beloved beauracrats do, focusing only on the eeeevil left-wingers.

Really? You mean the same way people bitterly defended Dan Rather until it became clear that he was lying through his teeth? Or the way there is constant whining about “liberal media bias” despite the fact that print sources are overwhelmingly left-leaning (and make no bones about it), or that people like Rather and Cronkite made careers out of manipulating the public on live television. “Now, Dan, we’ve heard what the President has said tonight. Why don’t you tell us the real story?”

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-25 08:53pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?
There are, what, eight or ten true, blue conservatives on this board, not less than seven of which have their heads shoved so far up your ass, they can no longer be counted as individual people? Hell, at least two of the particularly avid conservatives start their own contradicting arguments with, "Well, I wholeheartedly agree with Wong, but...," masking their dissent lest they suddenly face a real argument.

SD.net is one big wankfest where poster after poster kisses your ass as you claim to be facilitating "rational" discourse while making out the Republican platform to be "piss all over the common man." That's about as fair a statement as suggesting that every Democrat wants to eschew personal responsibility and erect a Communist edifice in the place of our current financial system.

In short, when challenged to back up your claim, you simply restate it, with a lot of extra words but not a shred of evidence. What a lovely demonstration of fucktard debating technique, Tiger-boy. Not to mention the fact that you are still ignoring the point I made earlier.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-10-25 09:07pm

Axis Kast wrote:There are, what, eight or ten true, blue conservatives on this board, not less than seven of which have their heads shoved so far up your ass, they can no longer be counted as individual people?

Am I one of them, Tigerboy?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-10-25 09:20pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Notice how the worthless trolling dipshit makes no attempt whatsoever to actually refute the point. Or, for that matter, to prove that I have a history of being an "insane Liberal". What claims of mine are "insane", Tiger-boy?
There are, what, eight or ten true, blue conservatives on this board, not less than seven of which have their heads shoved so far up your ass, they can no longer be counted as individual people? Hell, at least two of the particularly avid conservatives start their own contradicting arguments with, "Well, I wholeheartedly agree with Wong, but...," masking their dissent lest they suddenly face a real argument.

SD.net is one big wankfest where poster after poster kisses your ass as you claim to be facilitating "rational" discourse while making out the Republican platform to be "piss all over the common man." That's about as fair a statement as suggesting that every Democrat wants to eschew personal responsibility and erect a Communist edifice in the place of our current financial system.

Hmm... Ad-Hominem Fallacy.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-10-25 10:03pm

In short, when challenged to back up your claim, you simply restate it, with a lot of extra words but not a shred of evidence. What a lovely demonstration of fucktard debating technique, Tiger-boy. Not to mention the fact that you are still ignoring the point I made earlier.

You're the one who characterizes Republicans as pissing all over the poor because they have some inexplicable need to gratify a superiority complex or enrich themselves at others' costs. And then you call this rational.

You consistently whine about the "3v3L" FOX News, without giving so much as a drop of consideration to the fact that print media is overwhelmingly in the liberal camp, or that media icons such as Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite made careers subtly under-cutting conservative leaders from Nixon to Bush, Jr.

Your entire "discourse" is one farcical mischaracterization after another of the other side. You're not arguing points, you're arguing strawmen of your own creation. Worse, you're doing so in a forum that has completely submerged itself in subservience. I find it amusing that Sheppard even had to ask whether I was referring to him. In fact, I'm wondering if any of the other conservatives whom I less blatantly called out will step up to the plate and register their "horror."

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-25 10:08pm

Axis Kast wrote:
In short, when challenged to back up your claim, you simply restate it, with a lot of extra words but not a shred of evidence. What a lovely demonstration of fucktard debating technique, Tiger-boy. Not to mention the fact that you are still ignoring the point I made earlier.
You're the one who characterizes Republicans as pissing all over the poor because they have some inexplicable need to gratify a superiority complex or enrich themselves at others' costs. And then you call this rational.

You consistently whine about the "3v3L" FOX News, without giving so much as a drop of consideration to the fact that print media is overwhelmingly in the liberal camp, or that media icons such as Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite made careers subtly under-cutting conservative leaders from Nixon to Bush, Jr.

Your entire "discourse" is one farcical mischaracterization after another of the other side. You're not arguing points, you're arguing strawmen of your own creation. Worse, you're doing so in a forum that has completely submerged itself in subservience. I find it amusing that Sheppard even had to ask whether I was referring to him. In fact, I'm wondering if any of the other conservatives whom I less blatantly called out will step up to the plate and register their "horror."

As expected, for the second time you restate your claim in yet more strident tones, again without providing a shred of evidence. This would be funny if it weren't simultaneously a pathetic indicator of what a doctrinaire shithead you are.

Here's a hint, moron: when someone says "back it up", you don't just say "here's what I said again ... in different words."