Saved In the Nick of Time

[falconbv]

doesnt anyone else find it interesting that starfleet has so much temporal technology? they're always saved in the nick of time by the future. has the empire ever develouped temporal technology?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

doesnt anyone else find it interesting that starfleet has so much temporal technology? they're always saved in the nick of time by the future. has the empire ever develouped temporal technology?

Thankfully, no.

[Guest]

doesnt anyone else find it interesting that starfleet has so much temporal technology? they're always saved in the nick of time by the future. has the empire ever develouped temporal technology?

Thankfully, no.

No because the Empire is not that pathetically weak. Besides, in all "reality" here, Star Trek has built their story arcs over the Time Travel™ phenomenon. I used to like Star Trek, I still do for the most part. I like TOS because my father loves it, I grew up watching the re-runs. I liked TNG for the most part as well. Hell, I used to like Voyager for the first 4 years, and I liked the last season of DS9 (mainly because I like wars in Sci-fi). Voyager let me down because they saved the day with Time Travel™. DS9 let me down because the freakin' Dominion just gave up. Enterprise let me down as soon as the words "Temporal Cold War" were mentioned. BAH!

[Mr Bean]

As its been suggest in numerous ST plot lines and now Fanfics the ST galaxy has not long to live, It fucks with the past/future entirely to much so much so its going to destory itself sooner or later

[Zoink]

doesnt anyone else find it interesting that starfleet has so much temporal technology? they're always saved in the nick of time by the future. has the empire ever develouped temporal technology?

Zoink's Random Thoughts on ST vs SW Time Travel

Unlike ST, SW can predict and see the future. I have not seen ST replicate this ability. The U.S.S. Relativity doesn't know its own future. It's entirely possible that Jedi masters of the time will forsee any time travel before the U.S.S. Relativity even arrives.

Scenerio:

U.S.S. Relativity opens time portal to Star Wars past. Death Star Beam (or equivalent) shoots through the just opened time portal, destroying the U.S.S. Relativity.

I base this on the following assumptions:

- Time Travel will create a large disturbance in the force

- The Emperor (or whomever is living at the time) will forsee this time travel, via the disturbance.

- They will position a large force at the location of this disturbance

Any attempt at time travel will probably reveal a small footnote in some obscure SW history book: In 324 a jedi scout ship sent to investigate a disturbance in the force, destroyed a fleet sixteen cubical vessels emerging from an energy portal. The vessels in question had no defensive systems, yet still insisted that resistance was futile. Their last statement was "We are the borg. Could you turn off your shields, or at least set them on a specific frequency?"

[Failed Glory]

Did you see the Simpsons make fun of time travel last night? Large laughs at future Homer getting killed. Even if you could travel back in time, the best you might accomlish is getting killed.

[neoolong]

Did you see the Simpsons make fun of time travel last night? Large laughs at future Homer getting killed. Even if you could travel back in time, the best you might accomlish is getting killed.

Yup, it isn't the first time they played with time travel. You remember the toaster?

[Failed Glory]

I just need to remember what my Dad told me on my wedding night,"If you ever go back in time, don't touch anything, because even the slightest change can affect the future in ways you can't possibly imagine"

"Stupid Bug, you go squish now!"

Or the Tick going back and serving drinks at a neolithic resort!

[falconbv]

Zoink's Random Thoughts on ST vs SW Time Travel

Unlike ST, SW can predict and see the future. I have not seen ST replicate this ability. The U.S.S. Relativity doesn't know its own future. It's entirely possible that Jedi masters of the time will forsee any time travel before the U.S.S. Relativity even arrives.

Scenerio:

U.S.S. Relativity opens time portal to Star Wars past. Death Star Beam (or equivalent) shoots through the just opened time portal, destroying the U.S.S. Relativity.

I base this on the following assumptions:

- Time Travel will create a large disturbance in the force

- The Emperor (or whomever is living at the time) will forsee this time travel, via the disturbance.

- They will position a large force at the location of this disturbance

Any attempt at time travel will probably reveal a small footnote in some obscure SW history book: In 324 a jedi scout ship sent to investigate a disturbance in the force, destroyed a fleet sixteen cubical vessels emerging from an energy portal. The vessels in question had no defensive systems, yet still insisted that resistance was futile. Their last statement was "We are the borg. Could you turn off your shields, or at least set them on a specific frequency?"[/quote]
thats all very well and nice. I was thinking however of a more intelligent senario.
USS Relativity travels backwards to before life evolved on imperial worlds, and nutralizes those worlds. no more empire, nore more threat.

[neoolong]

Yes, but if the Empire can foretell that attempt, they can act to prevent it from happening and make the first move. But that leads down a path that is quite longwinded.

[SPOOFE]

It's quite canon that there are different timelines in Star Trek, and that most (if not all) methods of time travel in ST - including those that involve attempts to change the past - simply spawn a new timeline.

ST4 isn't included in this, as it involved an attempt to change the present by retrieving an animal from the past. The history of the galaxy was unchanged, largely... but the present was saved.

ST:FC may seem like a fluke, but the only time we saw the Borg's successful attempt to change the past was while the Enterprise was caught in the Borg sphere's time-travel backwash thingy, and we saw assimilated Earth. However, this could not have been an accurate view of the "main" timestream (the timestream that the E-E originated from in that movie), since if it were, the Enterprise would never have been built in the first place. That is, the instant the Borg opened their time rift, they would have ceased to exist.

Additionally, we see assimilated Earth through the time vortex thingy... which means that the Sphere succeeded in its mission of assimilating Earth, right? But... we see in the movie that the Borg fail. So how could the Enterprise see a Borgified Earth if the Borg don't assimilate Earth?

The only possible answer is that there are many timestreams, and any temporal incursion simply spawns a new timestream while leaving the parent timestream alone. Ergo, if any ST unit attemps to travel back in time to alter any ST/SW war, all they'll succeed in doing is creating a new timeline in which Trek wins... and, given the near-infinite number of possible timestreams, I'm sure that there are many such timestreams already.

Conclusion: Time Travel will do precisely jack and shit for ST.

[SirNitram]

Star Wars does not have purposeful time travel, however, since the Droids Comics(Which I found hilarious when I read them, long ago..) are official, there is time travel, and it all relates to Hyperdrive. It's messy and 3P0 tends to panic on the situation, but oddly enough, the Hyperdrive seems built for these discrepencies, since it's clock will automatically display the date they have arrived at.

[falconbv]

It's quite canon that there are different timelines in Star Trek, and that most (if not all) methods of time travel in ST - including those that involve attempts to change the past - simply spawn a new timeline.

ST4 isn't included in this, as it involved an attempt to change the present by retrieving an animal from the past. The history of the galaxy was unchanged, largely... but the present was saved.

ST:FC may seem like a fluke, but the only time we saw the Borg's successful attempt to change the past was while the Enterprise was caught in the Borg sphere's time-travel backwash thingy, and we saw assimilated Earth. However, this could not have been an accurate view of the "main" timestream (the timestream that the E-E originated from in that movie), since if it were, the Enterprise would never have been built in the first place. That is, the instant the Borg opened their time rift, they would have ceased to exist.

Additionally, we see assimilated Earth through the time vortex thingy... which means that the Sphere succeeded in its mission of assimilating Earth, right? But... we see in the movie that the Borg fail. So how could the Enterprise see a Borgified Earth if the Borg don't assimilate Earth?

The only possible answer is that there are many timestreams, and any temporal incursion simply spawns a new timestream while leaving the parent timestream alone. Ergo, if any ST unit attemps to travel back in time to alter any ST/SW war, all they'll succeed in doing is creating a new timeline in which Trek wins... and, given the near-infinite number of possible timestreams, I'm sure that there are many such timestreams already.

Conclusion: Time Travel will do precisely jack and shit for ST.

humm. interesting. I remeber hearing somewhere about a starfleet vessel going back in time to plant bombs in a planet that would only detenate after the vessel left for the past. would that work then?

[Darth Yoshi]

humm. interesting. I remeber hearing somewhere about a starfleet vessel going back in time to plant bombs in a planet that would only detenate after the vessel left for the past. would that work then?

Umm...what?

[tharkûn]

The idea is that the bifrication in the timeline occurs at the point where the time traveller interacts with history. If time travel has no effect on your past ... then you have no casuality loops. You further introduce no branching in the timeline.


Here are a few other time travel experiments which do not result in universe splitting out:
1. Ship fires "temporal torpedo" at a heavily sheilded ISD. The torpedo moves forward in time about 4 seconds an explodes inside the sheilds. No casuality, only minimal problems with thermo I.
2. A ship a point A sends a time message to ship at point B. B is two trillion light years away. A sends the message to arrive at B 1/2 a second after it leaves A.

The problems I have with time travel spawns new universes in star trek:
1. What the hell happens with thermo I? Where in hell does all the mass-energy in the new universe come from?
2. Why, after centuries of time travel, does no one use the trick they found with Worf to say, damn I'm in the wrong universe?
3. In "Children of Time" the Defiant finds its own descendants. The descendants convince the crew to head back in time (otherwise the descendants would never have existed), the crew sets out to go back in time, but Odo (have survived the previous trip) sabotages the ship and the Defiant does NOT go back in time. The colony then ceases to exist. Now does this mean you can spawn new universes by effectively sitting on your ass?

[Darth Yoshi]

In response to problem #3, a question. How did they meet the descendants?

[neoolong]

In response to problem #3, a question. How did they meet the descendants?

The Defiant crashes through a weird atmospheric condition and hit the planet. They find that they have travelled in time and have met their descendents. They eventually fix the ship so that they don't go back in time, after they leave, and so the colony disappears.

I think there is a bit more but I forget the rest.

[data_link]

In response to problem #3, a question. How did they meet the descendants?

The Defiant crashes through a weird atmospheric condition and hit the planet. They find that they have travelled in time and have met their descendents. They eventually fix the ship so that they don't go back in time, after they leave, and so the colony disappears.

I think there is a bit more but I forget the rest.

Wasn't that the plot to Lost in Space?

[SPOOFE]

I remeber hearing somewhere about a starfleet vessel going back in time to plant bombs in a planet that would only detenate after the vessel left for the past. would that work then?

Sure, in one timestream. ST time travel has been extremely inconsistent about which timestream one ends up in after travelling back in time... there was the Voyager two-parter where they first meet the 29th century Feds (I think it was the first time), and they're sucked back to the 20th century by a timeship. Were they still in their own timestream? Were they in a parallel but slightly different timestream? Or were they in a completely different timestream altogether?

Obviously, they couldn't have been in the same timestream... indeed, several timestreams seem to have been crossed in that episode. The whole incident both started and ended with the destruction of Voyager (the ship gets pulled to the future, the timeship explodes, Voyager's wrecked hull is found in the debris, so a timeship goes back in time to destroy Voyager...). Ultimately, however, Voyager was NOT destroyed, meaning that the ENTIRE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS could not have happened... UNLESS we assume that they were pulled into a different timestream. There's not even any reason to assume that they somehow made it back to the same timestream as the one they left... it was just similar enough.

Time travel makes my head hurt. In either case, it's not a viable tactic.

Where in hell does all the mass-energy in the new universe come from?

Subspace. Where else?

[Zoink]

I was thinking however of a more intelligent senario.
USS Relativity travels backwards to before life evolved on imperial worlds, and nutralizes those worlds. no more empire, nore more threat.

OK, let's stick with intelligence:

I've never seen a ST ship travel that far back. If you consider time as a dimension, wouldn't further trips along this dimension require more energy?

IF NOT: I guess a single time traveling alien could destroy (or at least change) the entire universe by traveling back to the big bang. That makes the future federation one of the most powerfull aliens in the entire universe. Also, the federation could travel *anywhere* in this universe by traveling close to the big bang... moving 1 cm to the left... then traveling back into the future.... just to much *power* for me to *assume* they have.

Just cuz I see Kirk beam down to the planet "instantly", I'm not going to assume he can beam to the Andromeda galaxy. I'll only base the capability of Federation time travel on what I see.

[Slartibartfast]

In response to problem #3, a question. How did they meet the descendants?

The Defiant crashes through a weird atmospheric condition and hit the planet. They find that they have travelled in time and have met their descendents. They eventually fix the ship so that they don't go back in time, after they leave, and so the colony disappears.

I think there is a bit more but I forget the rest.

Hm no, I think the way it worked was like this: they crash-land on the planet and meet their descendants (in present time). They are the descendants of the crew that was supposed to travel to the past and get stranded on the planet. They didn't actually do any time travel, but they were supposed to because otherwise the descendants would have never existed (and that's what happened because they failed). The anomaly was there but they missed it.

[neoolong]

Yeah, you're probably right. I don't really remember the episode that well.