OK, I know that Saxton didn't authorize this in HIS ITW

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

1.) If we believe what you say and Threepio's "God" status did in fact have an influence on them, then logically they must obey him, which in TURN means that they must decide things for themselves, and not by what he says. If they disobey that order, then they aren't listening to their god, are they?

No, they are obeying his order for free decision. But they use the Rebel's testimony as input for the decision and his God status gave credibility to their arguments. That he said they are free to choose is what differentiates "control" or "coerce" or "threaten" with "manipulate".

Suppose the guy that you looked up to all your life expalined his latest plight asked you for your help, but said you didn't have to, that you are free to decide. Are you going to tell me that you did not give additional credibility to his words due to his mere status, that you were no more likely to help him than Stranger X saying the same things? His special status was not lost just bcause he said "you are free to decide", and thus the special effect is not lost.

That's the true significance. The "You are free to choose" is just window dressing so no one feels like they are being coerced.

[Captain Cyran]

See Vong invasion. They were at peace for years. See that wonderful score?

See Rebellion which caused as many deaths. Wow, the Empire didn't do as well as we thought huh.

Really, few of the tests had been very challenging. The crisis in Solo Command is caused more by the true nature of the Provisional Council under a millimetric thick skin of "equality". the Yevetha? Dirt. The Vong, bigger clumped of dirt. Really, any half assed government coulda done it, and convinced us Imperial apologists the Empire's death was a net positive (even though the substituion of beautiful wedges with those ... monsters in CTD could be considered an atrocity in itself ).

Point being?

But how evil? Evil enough to replace it with Incompetence?

See Bush vs. Kerry arguments. In all seriousness though. Incompetence which might get you killed is better than evil that WILL get you killed.

All a matter of achieving his personal goal. As for Tarkin, he got his taxes. In results, he did it, and with a low casualty count.

Low casualty count? He blew up a fucking planet. Sacrificed dozens of Stormtroopers to get the information about the Rebel hide-outs where abouts. Then, in his stupidity, caused the death of millions of Imperial troops. All in the matter of a DAY or two.

You mean, Alderaan's death was certain the moment Princess Leia chose to be a traitor and show the Empire what bad apples the Aldies are (which they already suspect). The ultimatum seems kind of cut short when the Aldies raised the shield, which means 'NO!"

Yeah, and as we all know, the legitimate response to what Alderaan's leadership did, you blow up a fucking planet.

How is pointing out there would have seemed little advantage in deliberatley crashing a ship onto Honoghr.

No, I was saying that it was stupid to say that if had been an intentional crash that someone would have written about it by now.

It wasn't an honest deal. But it wasn't an atrocity. They are cleaning up the planet after all...

I haven't read the book in awhile. But weren't they actually polluting the planet about as fast as they were cleaning it up so the process was so slow that instead of being over about 10 or 12 years after the incident it was 20 years or so later and they'd cleaned up a few acres.

It could be more skewed. I know I don't have the stomach to actually make Tarkin's tough choices.

Tarkin's tough choices? Christ, I didn't want to believe that you actually AGREE with what he did. You just proved me wrong on that.

Almost certain, and how is pointing out it is not pragmatic to bury something you really expect to raise anchor fast a fan-wank argument?

I'm making fun of the fact that you're arguments revolve around your personal interpretations of just about everything and that there is in fact no proof for pretty much anything you're saying.

I agree that was his part of the blame. I just think that in killing the Emperor, they caused that cork to blow.

Partly the Republic's fault. Mostly Palpatines. You can't set up the wine glasses precariously and then bitch at someone else for knocking it over when they pass by and the wind knocks it over.

The aides, comm intercepts ... etc.

Because, of course. The mighty Empire would NEVER stoop so low as to have senators as spies...

All in the Name of Order, says the Empire.

Again I say in mockery.

HEIL HITLER!

[Lord of the Farce]

Low casualty count? He blew up a fucking planet. Sacrificed dozens of Stormtroopers to get the information about the Rebel hide-outs where abouts. Then, in his stupidity, caused the death of millions of Imperial troops. All in the matter of a DAY or two.

He was referring to the "Ghorman Massacre", in which Captain Tarkin landed on "peaceful" protestors and supposedly killing hundreds (ref StarWars.com).

... Actually, according to the Rebel's own documents, the death count was in fact in the dozens (ref WEG RSB).

[Rogue 9]

You mean, Alderaan's death was certain the moment Princess Leia chose to be a traitor and show the Empire what bad apples the Aldies are (which they already suspect). The ultimatum seems kind of cut short when the Aldies raised the shield, which means 'NO!"

Think. No one was supposed to know about the Death Star. No one on planet outside of Alderaan's royal family knows about the Death Star. So, you're Joe Security Officer on duty at the shield bunker, and this FREAKING HUGE BATTLESTATION (tm) comes in the system and spikes energy. You don't know what it is, you don't know that it belongs to the Empire. All you know is that it's got a Big Fucking Gun pointed your way, it's powering up, and whoever's on it ain't saying anything. So, what do you do? You turn on the shield. This isn't that hard, is it?

It wasn't an honest deal. But it wasn't an atrocity. They are cleaning up the planet after all...

WRONG! They were ACTIVELY POISONING THE PLANET WITH THEIR ENGINEERED POISON KHOLM GRASS OR WHATEVER, which they seeded IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE CRASH. The decon of the chemicals from the ship had been done long before; all those decon droids were doing was killing off the kholm grass at a slow rate, because the aforementioned grass, introduced by the Empire, killed all other plant life near it and was the ONLY THING KEEPING THE PLANET POISONED AND EMPIRE-DEPENDENT.

[Lord of the Farce]

Think. No one was supposed to know about the Death Star. No one on planet outside of Alderaan's royal family knows about the Death Star. So, you're Joe Security Officer on duty at the shield bunker, and this FREAKING HUGE BATTLESTATION (tm) comes in the system and spikes energy. You don't know what it is, you don't know that it belongs to the Empire. All you know is that it's got a Big Fucking Gun pointed your way, it's powering up, and whoever's on it ain't saying anything. So, what do you do? You turn on the shield. This isn't that hard, is it?

So when a massive tank bearing your government's insignia (and IFF transponders) pulls up in front of your house, your first response is to lock and nail all of your doors and windows shut? And in the time between the Death Star's arrival and the superlaser's firing, Bail couldn't have ordered the shield operators to switch them off, and roll out the red carpet for the Empire's envoy?

[Captain Cyran]

So when a massive tank bearing your government's insignia (and IFF transponders) pulls up in front of your house, your first response is to lock and nail all of your doors and windows shut? And in the time between the Death Star's arrival and the superlaser's firing, Bail couldn't have ordered the shield operators to switch them off, and roll out the red carpet for the Empire's envoy?

Except no envoy was offered numbnuts. The Death Star showed up. Most likely didn't respond to hails, unless the books say otherwise. Then fired blowing up the planet.

As for the massacre. How canon is that source you have? And either way. The losses are a non-issue. He still dropped a fucking ship on protestors.

[Rogue 9]

Think. No one was supposed to know about the Death Star. No one on planet outside of Alderaan's royal family knows about the Death Star. So, you're Joe Security Officer on duty at the shield bunker, and this FREAKING HUGE BATTLESTATION (tm) comes in the system and spikes energy. You don't know what it is, you don't know that it belongs to the Empire. All you know is that it's got a Big Fucking Gun pointed your way, it's powering up, and whoever's on it ain't saying anything. So, what do you do? You turn on the shield. This isn't that hard, is it?

So when a massive tank bearing your government's insignia (and IFF transponders) pulls up in front of your house, your first response is to lock and nail all of your doors and windows shut?

No, actually, my response to that is to run the hell out of the back of the house, since in order for the analogy to be complete they would have to have the turret trained at the house and I would have to know that the gunner was loading a HEAT round.

And in the time between the Death Star's arrival and the superlaser's firing, Bail couldn't have ordered the shield operators to switch them off, and roll out the red carpet for the Empire's envoy?

Thus tipping them to the fact that he knew about the Death Star? Best to wait for the ultimatum confirming that they were Imperials. Sadly, the Empire being as evil as it is, that ultimatum never came.

[Lord of the Farce]

Except no envoy was offered numbnuts. The Death Star showed up. Most likely didn't respond to hails, unless the books say otherwise. Then fired blowing up the planet.

And how do we know any of this except for...? Oh, Alderaan's shield, which was as powerful as any in the galaxy, was up.
If I was trying to show the government's law enforcement or military that I have nothing to hide, I'd hardly do so by trying my best to make sure that my house is impervious to any attempt to enter it.

As for the massacre. How canon is that source you have? And either way. The losses are a non-issue. He still dropped a fucking ship on protestors.

Direct quote from the WEG Rebel Alliance Sourcebook (which, AFAIK, remains an official/canon source... damn, the new canon policy gets messy sometimes):

Ghorman is a small planet located in Sern Sector, just outside the Core Worlds. The citizens of Ghorman were staging a peaceful demonstration against new taxes; they staged a sit-in at the spaceport, blocking all of the port’s landing pads. A Republic warship, arriving at the planet to collect the taxes, landed in spite of the citizens, killing dozens and wounding hundreds more. The commander in charge of the warship, one Captain Tarkin, was not prosecuted the murders; in fact, he was promoted.

Since S11 in 2000, Melbourne (not 9/11, 2001), I've been inclined to take statement concerning "peaceful protestors" with a grain of salt. As others have mentioned, the law enforment agencies of Ghorman would hardly want the government of the Republic/Empire to see them as useless, so they would have already made attempts to disperse the protestor (who were doing the equivilent of crowding the runways of the only airport in a fairly major city), which shows that the protestors were taking measures to not be dispersed.
Unless you believe that SW ships prefer to land like a rock (unlike, say, the Acclamators in AOTC), Tarkin would have given the protestors plenty of time to move out of the way of the landing struts as the ship decended, (EDIT:) so it wasn't like they didn't have any choice about staying there and be crushed, or attempting to move.

No, actually, my response to that is to run the hell out of the back of the house, since in order for the analogy to be complete they would have to have the turret trained at the house and I would have to know that the gunner was loading a HEAT round.

Actually, didn't the superlaser point to one side to begin with?

Thus tipping them to the fact that he knew about the Death Star? Best to wait for the ultimatum confirming that they were Imperials. Sadly, the Empire being as evil as it is, that ultimatum never came.

Why the hell would you be trying to raise the shield (and keep them up) in the first place against ships of your own (over-)government? If I find a bunch of police or military people and vehicle in front of my house, I'd calmly open the front door and ask what the problem is, and do whatever I can to avoid provocking them. EDIT: And given the fact that an officer reported to Tarkin that Alderaan had defenses equal to any in the galaxy...

[Rogue 9]

Except that they're loading weapons and you know that they're going to use them on you, because you live in the Soviet Union, where the police don't just politely ask questions and wait for a legal warrant, and having the police ask to talk to you means you will never be seen again. This is Alderaan's situation, not the situation of some U.S. citizen with his nice Miranda rights having a couple officers asking if they could have a word.

[Lord of the Farce]

Except that they're loading weapons and you know that they're going to use them on you, because you live in the Soviet Union, where the police don't just politely ask questions and wait for a legal warrant, and having the police ask to talk to you means you will never be seen again. This is Alderaan's situation, not the situation of some U.S. citizen with his nice Miranda rights having a couple officers asking if they could have a word.

So the first reaction of planets within the Empire to any Imperial ship arriving is to "lock and bar the doors".
Basically, you're saying that the Empire shoot first then ask questions never, and we know that because they did so at Alderaan, because we know that they shoot first then ask questions never.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

See Rebellion which caused as many deaths. Wow, the Empire didn't do as well as we thought huh.

OH? I accredited that as the New Republic's "foundation fee", just as the Clone Wars was the Empire's foundation. What's left is to see whether it was worth the revolution's cost. And if the Imperials proved not worthy, so were the NR.

See Bush vs. Kerry arguments. In all seriousness though. Incompetence which might get you killed is better than evil that WILL get you killed.

Point on Bush vs. Kerry, except their replacement was "free." If removing Bush and putting Kerry on is going to take 1 million American lives, are you still that keen on removing Bush?

Low casualty count? He blew up a fucking planet. Sacrificed dozens of Stormtroopers to get the information about the Rebel hide-outs where abouts. Then, in his stupidity, caused the death of millions of Imperial troops. All in the matter of a DAY or two.

As somebody else worked out, I was talking about Ghorman. And yeah, his performance in the Alderaan Incident is hardly worthy of praise.

Yeah, and as we all know, the legitimate response to what Alderaan's leadership did, you blow up a fucking planet.

With the support of its people...

No, I was saying that it was stupid to say that if had been an intentional crash that someone would have written about it by now.

A cynical attitude gained from writer's choices. Remember that sexist thing? It was a creation from a fork in the road that was really caused more by inadequate sampling and so on... choice 1 or 2, they almost must choose the one that vilifies the EMpire. It is honeslty one of my least favorite things about Star Wars - polarizing everything makes it look kind of 2D.

I haven't read the book in awhile. But weren't they actually polluting the planet about as fast as they were cleaning it up so the process was so slow that instead of being over about 10 or 12 years after the incident it was 20 years or so later and they'd cleaned up a few acres.

Yeah, that was quite a nice act of fraud, but it still wasn't quite an atrocity. the work they had done so far was worth about 10 years according to Leia. Thanks to the redatings, now they only dragged their heels by 1/2, not 3/4ths.

It was really a stupid decision caused by species misunderstanding. If I were Thrawn with my supposed ability to read species, I would have stopped that fake kholm-grass shit and started actually cleaning up (in fact, I'd dump even more droids into the act), and watch them die for me in gratitude and their "honor" without further worries about anyone finding out. I'm not being nice, just pragmatic.

Tarkin's tough choices? Christ, I didn't want to believe that you actually AGREE with what he did. You just proved me wrong on that.

On superficial analysis, the killing of two billion people is enough to create an instant Repulsive Effect. When you sit down and think about it, however, Tarkin's situation becomes more complex, and so far, no one in this thread at least had come up with a workable idea for Tarkin given the constraints he has. I'm still waiting. I hope I can find one so I can lambast Alderaan's death like all those Normal People.

Partly the Republic's fault. Mostly Palpatines. You can't set up the wine glasses precariously and then bitch at someone else for knocking it over when they pass by and the wind knocks it over.

Actually, it is more like this. You have a glass structure that you are actively holding together. Someone pushes you away. The glass collapses.

Because, of course. The mighty Empire would NEVER stoop so low as to have senators as spies...

No evidence, at least.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Except that they're loading weapons and you know that they're going to use them on you, because you live in the Soviet Union, where the police don't just politely ask questions and wait for a legal warrant, and having the police ask to talk to you means you will never be seen again. This is Alderaan's situation, not the situation of some U.S. citizen with his nice Miranda rights having a couple officers asking if they could have a word.

Oh, so you are going to lock your door, ending any hope you may have that they won't shoot. If nothing else, that's stupid. Your best chance is to open the door anyway, be very polite and servile, and hope they really are just asking for information.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

And is this an assumption on your part, or do you have proof that they can do this? And how many ships are contributing? As vakundok mentions, the fleet was spread out acrosss the moon when the DS2 exploded - thats extremely lousy coverage to protect the planet from.

To make a hull hugging shield implies highly variable geometry. That shields can be formed into stalks can be seen in the DSII shield.

The first problem with this is "timing" - you'd have to be fairly

Umm, I really don't know what you are visualizing in the paragraph. But I wanted to take the protected area clean off the planet. Kind of like this

Y-axis -->
Ship---(Tractor)---[Protected] (Air) GGGGroundddd

There should be no timing problems.

The last, somewhat minor problem with this is how are they going to do this through the shield, exactly? Tractor beams are blocked by shields. (REf: The Crystal Star.)

But it is also said tractor beams are gravitic (Onslaught). How can a shield really block gravity when they themselves can supposedly be ripped off by it.

Don't worry. I am quite aware of the potential problems in my theory. However, it is the best I can come up with on short notice without a planetary facility.

Which we should also be seeing with YOUR theory as well, I might add, if we believe your assumptions. On the other hand, the shield energy might be absorbed instead (at least on part of the surface.) I don't really see where you're supposedly going with this.

It helps that we are really like a Borg cube in a CME (lots of energy total, but due to the small area we are actually in contact with, the energy absorption is low)

Spread out over at least several seconds, and that assumes that all shields operate similarily to the Hoth shield (which is silly, since we know SW technology has other means of disposing of waste heat such as converting it into neutrinos as per the AOTC ICS, IIRC.

Hey, not my fault that you mentioned this about P.2. Converting it to neutrinos is really the best choice (in the absence of unknown technical difficulties of course), and honestly I wonder why they don't do it all the time.

Except that this so called "phantom network" is mentioned in the ITW:SWT book. Which makes it a bit less "phantom" than you want to believe (and is just as canonical, if not more recent, although I don't consider the age of the material to have any relevance on its validity.)

Yes, I know it is mentioned in the SWT. But the ROTJ novelization is equally explicit that as the shield went down, the moon was in "unprotected space."

And I'm pretty sure the novelization is still just a bit higher on the hierarchy.

I won't mind the planetary shield idea if these two quite contradicting statements can be bent appropriately (one of the reasons I preferred the repulsor to your shield).

[Lord of the Farce]

Thus tipping them to the fact that he knew about the Death Star? Best to wait for the ultimatum confirming that they were Imperials. Sadly, the Empire being as evil as it is, that ultimatum never came.

Why the hell would you be trying to raise the shield (and keep them up) in the first place against ships of your own (over-)government? If I find a bunch of police or military people and vehicle in front of my house, I'd calmly open the front door and ask what the problem is, and do whatever I can to avoid provocking them. EDIT: And given the fact that an officer reported to Tarkin that Alderaan had defenses equal to any in the galaxy...

Oops, that was actually Vader. Regardless, the fact that Alderaan was previously claimed to be defenseless in the senate changes the analogy somewhat. The "property" that was previously claimed to be free for all to enter and leave as they please (and having no fences) turned out to have an electrified razorwire fence.

[vakundok]

Oops, that was actually Vader.

Unimportant, but in the translated novelisation it is unclear whether it was Motti or Vader, who had just joined to them (Tarkin and Motti) ...

[Rogue 9]

Thus tipping them to the fact that he knew about the Death Star? Best to wait for the ultimatum confirming that they were Imperials. Sadly, the Empire being as evil as it is, that ultimatum never came.

Why the hell would you be trying to raise the shield (and keep them up) in the first place against ships of your own (over-)government? If I find a bunch of police or military people and vehicle in front of my house, I'd calmly open the front door and ask what the problem is, and do whatever I can to avoid provocking them. EDIT: And given the fact that an officer reported to Tarkin that Alderaan had defenses equal to any in the galaxy...

Oops, that was actually Vader. Regardless, the fact that Alderaan was previously claimed to be defenseless in the senate changes the analogy somewhat. The "property" that was previously claimed to be free for all to enter and leave as they please (and having no fences) turned out to have an electrified razorwire fence.

No weapons =/= no planetary shield. A planetary shield is not a weapon.

[Darth Wong]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the people screaming about the evil atrocity of Alderaan feel that Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Dresden etc. were also evil atrocities? If you do, then your worldview is logically consistent and that's fine. If you don't, then you're full of shit.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The firebombing of Dresden is arguably the single most morally reprehensible act committed by the U.S. armed forces in the last 100 years.

EDIT: Although I do not presently have my novelisation on me, the Return of the Jedi novelisation does say that the Endor moon was unprotected after the destruction of the dish on Endor - so this precludes any other network remaining to protect the moon.

As for Alderaan - in terms of purely speculative thought - I always suspected if Alderaan was the elitist capital of the Alderanian state where only the aristocracy, the inteligentsia, and the politically connected were allowed to live. It seems a snooty, pretentious place full of spoiled, ostentatious, and irrationally liberal environmentalists: southern California's richest communities writ large if you will. Explains their impossibly antiseptic and wealthy character and silly shit like building cities in canyon walls and amazingly low population.

I imagine the common citizen and workers had their place on Alderaan's colonies, dependencies, and co-members.

[Rogue 9]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the people screaming about the evil atrocity of Alderaan feel that Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Dresden etc. were also evil atrocities? If you do, then your worldview is logically consistent and that's fine. If you don't, then you're full of shit.

Dresden, yes. Tokyo, I'm not too familiar with. Hiroshima, no. Nagasaki is debateable.

Dresden was simply unnecessary. There was no excuse.

Tokyo, I don't know. The Doolittle raid was not, but I don't know much about the later bombing campaigns.

Hiroshima was necessary to force the surrender of Japan. The alternative, invasion, would have done far more harm to both Japan and the military forces of the United States, and also would have prolonged the war long enough for the Soviet Union to shift troops to Siberia and join in the invasion of Japan, likely resulting in a North/South Japan type deal and yet another war the likes of Korea or even Vietnam.

The bombing of Nagasaki could have waited longer to see if Hiroshima by itself would force surrender, but if the Japanese leadership was still determined to force invasion and the deaths of millions, then the second bombing would be in order.

Alderaan was not a threat on the order of Imperial Japan, and did not pose the difficulties inherent to invading Japan in force. The Imperial Army would not meet insurmountable resistance that would not surrender and was capable of inflicting casualties in the millions upon landing, which was the main concern with an invasion of Japan.

[Lord of the Farce]

Oops, that was actually Vader. Regardless, the fact that Alderaan was previously claimed to be defenseless in the senate changes the analogy somewhat. The "property" that was previously claimed to be free for all to enter and leave as they please (and having no fences) turned out to have an electrified razorwire fence.

No weapons =/= no planetary shield. A planetary shield is not a weapon.

Well fucking DUH! The point is that despite the senate's previous claims about Alderaan being defenseless, Vader explicitly stated that Alderaan in actual fact did have defenses to match any in the Empire.

[Lord of the Farce]

Alderaan was not a threat on the order of Imperial Japan, and did not pose the difficulties inherent to invading Japan in force. The Imperial Army would not meet insurmountable resistance that would not surrender and was capable of inflicting casualties in the millions upon landing, which was the main concern with an invasion of Japan.

Except that if the Empire had simply left Alderaan alone, it would have represented the Empire's impotence to deal with out-right defiance, giving the Rebellion an A-OK to do whatever the hell they want.

If the Empire had tried to blockade or lay seige to Alderaan, with it's minute and most likely self-sustaining population, the Empire would have had to pull large amount of resources from other locations, leaving them open to Rebel activities... Probably including acts of terrorism performed by it's "rogue" branches masquerading as Imperial acts (which we know - from a first hand source - that the Rebellion silently condone).

[consequences]

Alderaan was not a threat on the order of Imperial Japan, and did not pose the difficulties inherent to invading Japan in force. The Imperial Army would not meet insurmountable resistance that would not surrender and was capable of inflicting casualties in the millions upon landing, which was the main concern with an invasion of Japan.

You know, I had decided to sit the rest of this one out, because I really can't back up my apathy towards Alderaan's fate any more than I already have with wha I've already presented. But Alderaan was exactly the same level of threat to the Empire as Imperial Japan was to the U.S. at the time of the superlaser/nuke if you use this as a parralel. Except that it would have been enormously easier to starve Japan into oblivion. Oh, and the fact that the conflict Alderaan was participating in could be supported even with the planet itself completely cut off. Then there's the fact that Alderaan had signifigant naval units in reserve that could be used to support a protracted war against the Empire, where everything Japan had that was combat worthy was either gone, bottled up, or had no hope of being completed.

As a side note, the only instance we have seen Alderaanians in combat, they fought to the death rather than even attempt to surrender, so I'm really wondering what evidence you have to suggest that dialogue trumps canon visuals.

[Captain Cyran]

You know, I had decided to sit the rest of this one out, because I really can't back up my apathy towards Alderaan's fate any more than I already have with wha I've already presented. But Alderaan was exactly the same level of threat to the Empire as Imperial Japan was to the U.S. at the time of the superlaser/nuke if you use this as a parralel. Except that it would have been enormously easier to starve Japan into oblivion. Oh, and the fact that the conflict Alderaan was participating in could be supported even with the planet itself completely cut off. Then there's the fact that Alderaan had signifigant naval units in reserve that could be used to support a protracted war against the Empire, where everything Japan had that was combat worthy was either gone, bottled up, or had no hope of being completed.

And we all know that nuking a city and destroying a planet are the same thing. I for one am not saying no action should have been taken against Alderaan. I will admit that there were people supporting the rebellion and as such, yes, the Empire should have taken them out. However, the Empire used overkill. Period, simple as that.

On a side note, the only instance we have seen Alderaanians in combat, they fought to the death rather than even attempt to surrender, so I'm really wondering what evidence you have to suggest that dialogue trumps canon visuals.

Was this before, or after the destruction of Alderaan? It makes a difference.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Except that if the Empire had simply left Alderaan alone, it would have represented the Empire's impotence to deal with out-right defiance, giving the Rebellion an A-OK to do whatever the hell they want.

Slippery slope. Given that the Galactic Empire had already bloodily suppressed the so-called “Succession Worlds” (ref: RSB), and regularly subjected whole sectors to a "shock treatment" of receiving a flotilla of “Imperial Star Destroyers” in orbit, Stormtroopers landing to string up the Moff, replacing the liquidated SECTGRU out of their own OoB, and then proceeding to another sector to rinse and repeat (ref: Goroth: Slave of the Empire), I sincerely doubt this.

Alderaan is a very wealthy and elitist world, with a simultaneously low population density - it has more in common with the opulent and spread-out estates in Malibu, southern California than a colony of mountain men. There's no evidence that the world is self-sustaining. In fact I reason it is a sheltered, ivory-tower estate world for the intelligentsia and elite of the Alderaanian state and probably wholly reliant on her colonies and dependencies for survival.

Again, you are also implicitly suggesting the enormously unlikely proposition that the entire populace is complicit with the surreptitious (by explicit statement of quotes you yourself posted) activities of the House of Organa.

More likely, when electricity falls apart, all of the aristocrats realize their states and political influence is as stake, and that they are at a real risk of becoming pitiful subsistence farmers, they will violently overthrow the House of Organa.

But no, not to you, someone who thinks in terms of the enormous false dilemma between no response and extreme response in ways only the Bush Administration can appreciate.

If the Empire had tried to blockade or lay seige to Alderaan, with it's minute and most likely self-sustaining population, the Empire would have had to pull large amount of resources from other locations, leaving them open to Rebel activities... Probably including acts of terrorism performed by it's "rogue" branches masquerading as Imperial acts (which we know - from a first hand source - that the Rebellion silently condone).

This is silly and absurd. Lando Calrissian notes in Specter of the Past that a majority of the Imperial forces were never concerned with the Rebellion.

And cite your source on the framing terror attacks – that’s something the Imperial Storm Commandos do.

Anyway, but of course, everyone’s in secret collusion with Bail Organa;: it’s an absolute imperative to totally obliterate the planet. Mmmhmm. Right.

[Lord of the Farce]

On a side note, the only instance we have seen Alderaanians in combat, they fought to the death rather than even attempt to surrender, so I'm really wondering what evidence you have to suggest that dialogue trumps canon visuals.

Was this before, or after the destruction of Alderaan? It makes a difference.

I think he's talking about the T4.