Huge cache of explosives missing in Iraq

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Post by Darth Wong »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Sarcasm aside, I'm starting to wonder if that's true. If the weapons were missing before they secured them, why didn't they notice when they "secured" them? And if the installation was "secured" since the invasion, why are looters still picking over it up to the present?
Its unlikely that the troops knew how many conventional explosives where suppose to be in the depot, they where probably only concerned with the potential banned weapons related equipment. NBC news was showing footage it filmed at the depot when it was first overrun tonight, and most of what they filmed appeared to be normal 500 and 1000 kilogram aircraft bombs, the sort of thing that Iraq would have just plain thousands of. Its unlikely that even the US militaries uber computer run inventory could account for all of its own 800,000 odd unguided bomb stock or its 50 million artillery shells. The UN inspectors probably only knew by going around and counting each and every one by hand, and that sort of data they where suppose to keep to themselves, removing it from potential prewar planning.
That answers the first question, but not the second.
Indeed, with a million Stryker born men flown directly into the streets of Baghdad and empowered with raw courage by the black beret the war would have been over within hours.
If they didn't have the manpower to get the job done, perhaps they should have stayed home.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Darth Wong wrote: That answers the first question, but not the second.
Ten to one, by secured they mean they searched it for Iraqi troops and found none, not that they put a long term guard on it or inventoried everything. That's what secured generally means for field operations.

If they didn't have the manpower to get the job done, perhaps they should have stayed home.
The manpower exists, its just no one wants to mobilize enough of it. Of the eight US Army National Guard divisions and ten additional separate brigades, only seven brigades total have been deployed to Iraq or are being prepared for a rotation in, while the Third Infantry Division which led the invasion, but quickly departed, is already back in.
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Holy shit batman!

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Pentagon responds to missing-explosives report
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published October 26, 2004

The Pentagon said yesterday that 380 tons of missing explosives from an Iraqi munitions facility may have been moved before U.S. troops overran the area during the invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

The statement came after a joint project by CBS' "60 Minutes" and the New York Times reported that the Iraqi government has told the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that the stockpile of material for plastic explosives went missing during postwar looting. The IAEA did not publicly reveal the issue of missing explosives until after the CBS-Times report.

But Pentagon officials said yesterday that Iraq had already admitted to breaking the IAEA seals and moving tons of the explosives from the Al Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad, before U.N. inspectors re-entered the country in 2002. Officials said the rest of the explosives stockpiles may have been removed and hidden before the arrival of American troops.

That explanation was bolstered last night by a report from NBC News, which said the weapons already were missing when their embedded reporter arrived at the site on April 10, 2003.

"NBC News was embedded with troops from the Army's 101st Airborne as they [took] over the weapons installation south of Baghdad. But they never found the 380 tons" of missing explosives, the network reported.
A Pentagon statement said troops searched the Al Qaqaa site during and after major combat. They searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings, the Pentagon said, but found no weapons of mass destruction or any material under IAEA seal.

"Although some believe the Al Qaqaa facility may have been looted, there is no way to verify this," the Pentagon said. "Another explanation is that regime loyalists or others emptied the facility prior to coalition forces arriving in Baghdad in April."

The "60 Minutes-New York Times report said Pentagon officials acknowledged the material disappeared after Baghdad fell. But Pentagon and White House officials said yesterday they do not know when the explosives went missing and have asked the CIA's Iraqi Survey Group to investigate.

The Pentagon also said allies have cleared more than 10,000 arms caches since April 2003, destroying more than 240,000 tons of arms and explosives. Another 162,000 tons are awaiting destruction.

Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts seized on yesterday's report as evidence of "the unbelievable blindness, stubbornness, arrogance" of the Bush administration.

"George W. Bush, who talks tough, talks tough and brags about making America safer, has once again failed to deliver," he said at a rally in Dover, N.H. "After being warned about the danger of major stockpiles of explosives in iraq, this president failed to guard those stockpiles."

Joe Lockhart, an adviser to Mr. Kerry, told reporters on a conference call yesterday that is not an indictment of the troops fighting in Iraq, but of their civilian leadership -- a point Mr. Kerry made as well.

"They have been doing their job courageously and honorably. The problem is the commander in chief has not been doing his," Mr. Kerry said. "These are the very errors of judgment that are supposed to be avoided by a wise president."

But Bush spokesman Steve Schmidt said the NBC report, which he distributed to reporters, disproved Mr. Kerry.

"John Kerry today launched attacks against the president that have been proven false before the day is over," he said. "John Kerry's attacks today were baseless. He said American troops did not secure the explosives, when the explosives were already missing."

Unlike the Pentagon, White House spokesman Scott McClellan did not dispute the timeline presented by the Iraqi government on when the material was missing. Instead, he focused on the tough task some 140,000 American troops faced when Baghdad fell.

"There were munitions caches spread throughout Iraq at the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom. That's why I pointed out the large volume of munitions that have already been destroyed and the large volume that are on line to be destroyed. The sites now are the responsibility of the Iraqi government to secure."

Iraq has a history of moving armaments to evade detection by the United Nations. During U.N. inspections after the first Gulf war in 1991, the Iraqi Intelligence Service was seen in surveillance photographs clearing out facilities before inspectors arrived.

IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council one month before the allied invasion that Iraq had moved some of its highly explosive HMX from the Al Qaqaa site. The United Nations could not verify Iraqi claims that it used the explosives for commercial uses.

The missing explosives include HMX as well as RDX, two highly explosive substances used to make C-5 plastic devices that can be used for legitimate commercial purposes, or by terrorists to bring down an airplane.

Mr. ElBaradei told the Security Council yesterday he was informed Oct. 1 by the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology that the explosives were lost after April 9, 2003, throughout the theft and looting of the government installations due to lack of security.

•Stephen Dinan, traveling with Sen. John Kerry's campaign, contributed to this story.

*************************

Scarborough is one of the Times' more reliable reporters; Gertz, you need
someone backing him up for his statements to be taken at accuracy. And
well, since NBC news is reporting the same thing, explosives stolen before
invasion...well, what the fuck is Kerry bitching about?
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Drudge


60 MINS PLANNED BUSH MISSING EXPLOSIVES STORY FOR ELECTION EVE

News of missing explosives in Iraq -- first reported in April 2003 -- was being resurrected for a 60 MINUTES election eve broadcast designed to knock the Bush administration into a crisis mode.

Jeff Fager, executive producer of the Sunday edition of 60 MINUTES, said in a statement that "our plan was to run the story on October 31, but it became clear that it wouldn't hold..."

Elizabeth Jensen at the LOS ANGELES TIMES details on Tuesday how CBS NEWS and 60 MINUTES lost the story [which repackaged previously reported information on a large cache of explosives missing in Iraq, first published and broadcast in 2003].

The story instead debuted in the NYT. The paper slugged the story about missing explosives from April 2003 as "exclusive."

An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.

According to NBCNEWS, the explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived. [VIDEO CLIP]

It is not clear who exactly shopped an election eve repackaging of the missing explosives story.

The LA TIMES claims: The source on the story first went to 60 MINUTES but also expressed interest in working with the NY TIMES... "The tip was received last Wednesday."

CBSNEWS' plan to unleash the story just 24 hours before election day had one senior Bush official outraged.

"Darn, I wanted to see the forged documents to show how this was somehow covered up," the Bush source, who asked not to be named, mocked, recalling last months CBS airing of fraudulent Bush national guard letters.

Developing...

:lol:
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Post by Elfdart »

According to this,

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... ness01.htm


American troops had been to Al Qaqaa several days before the troops with NBC news arrived.
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Post by Beowulf »

Elfdart wrote:According to this,

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... ness01.htm


American troops had been to Al Qaqaa several days before the troops with NBC news arrived.
And how long do you think it would have taken to load up 30 some tractor trailers full of stuff, and how noticable do you think that would be?
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Post by Elfdart »

Beowulf wrote:
Elfdart wrote:According to this,

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/ ... ness01.htm


American troops had been to Al Qaqaa several days before the troops with NBC news arrived.
And how long do you think it would have taken to load up 30 some tractor trailers full of stuff, and how noticable do you think that would be?
If it was all done at once, it should stick out like a turd in a puchbowl considering (a) that U.S. troops has already been there and were presumably nearby (were they nearby? good question!) and (b) allied aircraft were doing aerial searches for WMD and fugitive Baathists. If thirty or so 18-wheelers were on the move, I should think someone would have noticed. If not, why not?

I would have thought that major weapons depots would be secured as a top priority. Loading and unloading trucks could be done in a matter of hours if the explosives were ready to ship and dollies, pallet-jacks, and forklifts were available -and depending on the layout of the warehouse. If there were multiple docks for trucks, and the loaders knew how to handle freight, I would say four or five hours at the most. The trick would be for that many trucks to go unnoticed afterward.

Someone has some 'splainin' to do.
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Beowulf wrote:And how long do you think it would have taken to load up 30 some tractor trailers full of stuff, and how noticable do you think that would be?
Linky

If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

Assumptions:

-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)

-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck

-Work day 12 hours

-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2
weeks before the US troops arrive)

-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.

-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.

Calculations:

-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders

-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.

-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contingency) = 15 trucks and drivers.

-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical
requirements

Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility.

Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.
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Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.
No small effort, then. Were there any groups that organized and large before the resistance forces started forming, that we know about?
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Post by Durandal »

SirNitram wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.
No small effort, then. Were there any groups that organized and large before the resistance forces started forming, that we know about?
It's certainly conceivable. It's not difficult to believe that there were some in Iraq who recognized that their army would get trampled and started to secure weapons and ammunition before the combat operations "ended."
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Post by Elfdart »

Depending on the layout of the warehouse (if it had loading docks for trucks and how many), the trucks used (big rigs would work best) and whether or not the stuff had been placed on pallets or in shipping cannisters and the people knowing what the hell they were doing, 4-5 hours would do it.

1) If this depot was like 90% of warehouses built in the last 30 years, it should have loading docks.

2) Trucks? Good question. Big rigs were available to Saddam's men and would work better for bulk cargo.

3) At some point before the actual invasion, it was clear even to Hussein that the invasion was on. Odds are that caches of weapons and explosives were at least made ready for shipping.

4) Even if the looters weren't experienced at handling cargo, it isn't brain surgery and the risk of being caught or shot would speed things up a lot.

5) This guy's assumptions are horseshit. A 5-minute trip to a small truck? If it's a small truck it could be backed up right next to the cargo, even if the plant had no loading docks. No need for long trips. :roll: Besides, there's no more reason to believe they used Toyota Tacomas than there is to believe they used big rigs. They might have used any combination of vehicles for all we know.

I had a part-time temp job with a shipping company last year. It took nine of us all of 45 minutes to load 7 tractor trailers with pallets or cannisters. And this company demands truck workers take it slowly while loading trucks for fear of on-the-job injuries and our supervisors didn't carry guns. A company of men over two weeks! :roll: Give me a break!

Want a better scenario? Six trucks make five trips each and grab most of the stuff over the course of a day or so, then do-it-yourselfers come by from time to time looking for scraps like jackals.

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Post by Admiral_K »

Well, I'd venture to say the munitions were likely moved by IRaqi forces prior to U.S. troops moving into the area and much of it was probably used/destroyed during the war itself. If you had a large stock pile of explosives, etc, are you just going to leave it at a site you are abandoning in the middle of a war?

380 tons is an awful lot.

I would highly doubt that it was "snuck out" after the U.S. invasion. The IEA has no evidence whatsoever that these explosives were still present after the U.S. invasion. Their last inspection there was over a month before the first U.S. forces arrived there. If you think about it, does it seem more likely that the Iraqi Army, organzed with large trucks deployed those explosives to various places before, or during the war, or that a rag tag bunch of looters somehow "snuck" away with 380 tons of explosives from the largest ammo dump in Iraq?

Incidentally, to those that insist there "are not and never were WMDs". If 380 tons of explosives can just "disappear" then why isn't the same possible for the WMDs we haven't found? If anything, this lends credibilty to the contention that there still may be WMDs and that we simply haven't located them yet.
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Post by Elfdart »

I doubt we'll ever know for sure since the site wasn't secured and guarded in the first place! By process of elimination, it would mean the explosives had to have been removed before allied troops arrived, since I doubt soldiers or Marines would simply allow them to load up and leave. High explosives have been found all over Iraq -and used against US forces. Colin Powell claimed that Iraq had THOUSANDS of tons of NBC weapons -not a few hundred- and NONE have turned up except for a few duds left over from the Iran/ Iraq War.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Elfdart wrote:I doubt we'll ever know for sure since the site wasn't secured and guarded in the first place!
Guarding an emtpy hole in the ground is pointless, if we are to belive as it has been reported that the 101st looked over the complex and found nothing I don't think they would leave me behind to guard and emtpy complex


And if you seriously expect to belive that short of the "All the bombs were behind the secret door behind the bookcase"

You seriously excpect in the middle of a war that not one of the grunts would have noticed a warehouse full of bombs and pass up the chain that they had capture a weapons depot

Or even worse a Army Unit would has passed by a complex of that size and NOT searched it!

Basic tatics, every hole in the ground can have guns firing out of it, so you check every hole if you want to live

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Post by MKSheppard »

Elfdart wrote:1) If this depot was like 90% of warehouses built in the last 30 years, it should have loading docks.
Docks which are sized for semi trailers and other cargo vehciles.
4) Even if the looters weren't experienced at handling cargo, it isn't brain surgery and the risk of being caught or shot would speed things up a lot.
Explosives that go boom and can kill you if you drop them are different
than loading monitors at the UPS loading docks :D
5) This guy's assumptions are horseshit. A 5-minute trip to a small truck?
If it's a small truck it could be backed up right next to the cargo, even if the plant had no loading docks.
Five minutes sounds about right for a trip, considering we have no idea
of the layout of the damn place.
I had a part-time temp job with a shipping company last year. It took nine of us all of 45 minutes to load 7 tractor trailers with pallets or cannisters. And this company demands truck workers take it slowly while loading trucks for fear of on-the-job injuries and our supervisors didn't carry guns. A company of men over two weeks! :roll: Give me a break!
That's nice. Strange about those tractor trailers being on inclines and
having special rollers on the decks so you can roll stuff down there. Don't
bullshit me, I've worked at UPS before as a seasonal worker (albeit for
2 days before I told 'em to fuck off) Iraqi insurgents do not have all this
wonderful human engineering.

Want a better scenario? Six trucks make five trips each and grab most of the stuff over the course of a day or so, then do-it-yourselfers come by from time to time looking for scraps like jackals.

Captain's Quarters? More like the Captain's Log -the one he pounds out on the can.[/quote]
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Linka

Urgent Warning on Iraqi Cache Issued in 1995

BY ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
October 27, 2004

WASHINGTON - Nine years ago, U.N. weapons inspectors urgently called on the International Atomic Energy Agency to demolish powerful plastic explosives in a facility that Iraq's interim government said this month was looted due to poor security.

The chief American weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, told The New York Sun yesterday that in 1995, when he was a member of the U.N. inspections team in Iraq, he urged the United Nations' atomic watchdog to remove tons of explosives that have since been declared missing.

Mr. Duelfer said he was rebuffed at the time by the Vienna-based agency because its officials were not convinced the presence of the HMX, RDX, and PETN explosives was directly related to Saddam Hussein's programs to amass weapons of mass destruction.

Instead of accepting recommendations to destroy the stocks, Mr. Duelfer said, the atomic-energy agency opted to continue to monitor them.

By e-mail, Mr. Duelfer wrote the Sun, "The policy was if acquired for the WMD program and used for it, it should be subject for destruction. The HMX was just that. Nevertheless the IAEA decided to let Iraq keep the stuff, like they needed more explosives."

On Monday a spokesman for the U.N. agency said its director general, Mohammed ElBaradei, was preparing a report on the missing material for the Security Council, concerned lest the explosives, which can be used to detonate a nuclear weapon, fall into the wrong hands. HMX, RDX, and PETN are more commonly used to create C4, an explosive that has both industrial and military uses. Libyan terrorists used a pound of similar plastic explosives in 1988 to destroy the commercial airliner Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

In 1995, Mr. ElBaradei was an assistant director of the the atomic-energy agency for external relations. His boss, Hans Blix, eventually took over the U.N. inspections team that was on the ground in Iraq before the war. Mr. Blix argued, in a book published after his retirement, that Iraq lacked the weapons programs American and European intelligence said it had kept concealed. Mr. Duelfer came to a similar conclusion, although he stressed in his report that Mr. Hussein had the intent to restart those programs.

Until this week, the Kerry campaign had used the assessments of the weapons inspectors to bludgeon the Bush administration for failing to substantiate the assertions it presented in March 2003 to justify the war. But yesterday the Kerry campaign launched an advertisement touting the failure to account for the explosives at Al Qaqaa as evidence of the president's incompetence.

The vice president of the American Enterprise Institute for foreign and defense policy studies, Danielle Pletka, told the Sun yesterday, "What is odd to me is that the Kerry campaign is suddenly concerned about WMD in Iraq and Mohammed ElBaradei after years of indifference, is suddenly concerned about conventional explosives in the Middle East." Ms. Pletka is a supporter of Mr. Bush's re-election.

The Bush campaign touted an NBC News report Monday that said the explosives were missing from Al Qaqaa when troops arrived at the facility April 10, 2003. U.N. weapons inspectors visited the facility on March 15 of that year and verified that the seals on the facility protecting the explosives were intact, according to agency's spokeswoman. The absence of the explosives less than four weeks later could suggest that they were gone before coalition troops had a chance to guard them.

NBC issued a corrective report last evening, however, saying the troops who visited the facility on April 10, 2003, did not look for the explosives. The reporter, Lai Ling Jew, who was embedded in the unit that arrived at the scene, said, "There wasn't a search."

"The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad," she said. "That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean, certainly some of the soldiers headed off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away."

On Monday, a spokesman for the American mission at the United Nations questioned the timing of the release of the material on the part of Mr. ElBaradei. Rick Grenell told the Sun's Benny Avni the "timing seems puzzling."

After a behind-the-scenes battle inside the State Department this summer, the Bush administration opted to reject Mr. ElBaradei's bid for a third term as director general of the atomic energy agency.

At the time, Washington was collecting intelligence - disputed by some agencies - that Mr. ElBaradei was providing advice to Iran on how to avoid sanction from his organization for its previously undisclosed uranium enrichment programs.

Mr. al-Baradei has publicly urged the Iranians to heed an earlier pledge to suspend enrichment, but he has also opposed America's policy of taking Iranian violations to the U.N. Security Council. Mr. al-Baradei has announced he will nonetheless seek a third term. Nominations for the director general position close on December 31.
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Post by Elfdart »

It's not just shipping companies like FedEx or UPS that have loading docks. Most large stores and even restaurants built in the last 30 years or so have them and I would think almost all warehouses. Of course we don't know the layout, so I could be wrong on that score. But the Captains Log floating in the Captain's Bowl was pulling numbers out of his ass.

Speaking of things contrived anally, the White House cock-and-bull story about the warehouse being looted before the war is horseshit.

October 27, 2004
MISSING EXPLOSIVES
No Check of Bunker, Unit Commander Says
By JIM DWYER and DAVID E. SANGER

White House officials reasserted yesterday that 380 tons of powerful explosives may have disappeared from a vast Iraqi military complex while Saddam Hussein controlled Iraq, saying a brigade of American soldiers did not find the explosives when they visited the complex on April 10, 2003, the day after Baghdad fell.

But the unit's commander said in an interview yesterday that his troops had not searched the site and had merely stopped there overnight.

The commander, Col. Joseph Anderson, of the Second Brigade of the Army's 101st Airborne Division, said he did not learn until this week that the site, Al Qaqaa, was considered sensitive, or that international inspectors had visited it before the war began in 2003 to inspect explosives that they had tagged during a decade of monitoring.

Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the division and who spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said his troops had been driving north toward Baghdad and had paused at Al Qaqaa to make plans for their next push.

"We happened to stumble on it,'' he said. "I didn't know what the place was supposed to be. We did not get involved in any of the bunkers. It was not our mission. It was not our focus. We were just stopping there on our way to Baghdad. The plan was to leave that very same day. The plan was not to go in there and start searching. It looked like all the other ammunition supply points we had seen already."

What had been, for the colonel and his troops, an unremarkable moment during the sweep to Baghdad took on new significance this week, after The New York Times, working with the CBS News program "60 Minutes," reported that the explosives at Al Qaqaa, mainly HMX and RDX, had disappeared since the invasion.


Earlier this month, officials of the interim Iraqi government informed the United Nations International Atomic Energy Agency that the explosives disappeared sometime after the fall of Mr. Hussein on April 9, 2003. Al Qaqaa, which has been unguarded since the American invasion, was looted in the spring of 2003, and looters were seen there as recently as Sunday.

President Bush's aides told reporters that because the soldiers had found no trace of the missing explosives on April 10, they could have been removed before the invasion. They based their assertions on a report broadcast by NBC News on Monday night that showed video images of the 101st arriving at Al Qaqaa.

By yesterday afternoon Mr. Bush's aides had moderated their view, saying it was a "mystery" when the explosives disappeared and that Mr. Bush did not want to comment on the matter until the facts were known.

On Sunday, administration officials said that the Iraq Survey Group, the C.I.A. taskforce that hunted for unconventional weapons, had been ordered to look into the disappearance of the explosives. On Tuesday night, CBS News reported that Charles A. Duelfer, the head of the taskforce, denied receiving such an order.

At the Pentagon, a senior official, who asked not to be identified, acknowledged that the timing of the disappearance remained uncertain. "The bottom line is that there is still a lot that is not known," the official said.

The official suggested that the material could have vanished while Mr. Hussein was still in power, sometime between mid-March, when the international inspectors left, and April 3, when members of the Army's Third Infantry Division fought with Iraqis inside Al Qaqaa. At the time, it was reported that those soldiers found a white powder that was tentatively identified as explosives. The site was left unguarded, the official said.

The 101st Airborne Division arrived April 10 and left the next day. The next recorded visit by Americans came on May 27, when Task Force 75 inspected Al Qaqaa, but did not find the large quantities of explosives that had been seen in mid-March by the international inspectors. By then, Al Qaqaa had plainly been looted.

Colonel Anderson said he did not see any obvious signs of damage when he arrived on April 10, but that his focus was strictly on finding a secure place to collect his troops, who were driving and flying north from Karbala.

"There was no sign of looting here," Colonel Anderson said. "Looting was going on in Baghdad, and we were rushing on to Baghdad. We were marshaling in."

A few days earlier, some soldiers from the division thought they had discovered a cache of chemical weapons that turned out to be pesticides. Several of them came down with rashes, and they had to go through a decontamination procedure. Colonel Anderson said he wanted to avoid a repeat of those problems, and because he had already seen stockpiles of weapons in two dozen places, did not care to poke through the stores at Al Qaqaa.

"I had given instructions, 'Don't mess around with those. It looks like they are bunkers; we're not messing around with those things. That's not what we're here for,' " he said. "I thought we would be there for a few hours and move on. We ended up staying overnight."
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Sea Skimmer
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Elfdart wrote:It's not just shipping companies like FedEx or UPS that have loading docks. Most large stores and even restaurants built in the last 30 years or so have them and I would think almost all warehouses. Of course we don't know the layout, so I could be wrong on that score. But the Captains Log floating in the Captain's Bowl was pulling numbers out of his ass.
That all irrelevant, as the explosives where being stored in bunkers sunk into the ground, not a warehouse. Bunkers by there nature have small and constructed access so that the entrance doesn't present a huge vulnerability.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
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Beowulf
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Post by Beowulf »

How many tons of explosive are really missing?
ABC News wrote:But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over three tons of RDX were stored at the facility — a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported

The IAEA documents could mean that 138 tons of explosives were removed from the facility long before the United States launched "Operation Iraqi Freedom" in March 2003.

...

The documents show IAEA inspectors looked at nine bunkers containing more than 194 tons of HMX at the facility. Although these bunkers were still under IAEA seal, the inspectors said the seals may be potentially ineffective because they had ventilation slats on the sides. These slats could be easily removed to remove the materials inside the bunkers without breaking the seals, the inspectors noted.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
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Elfdart
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Post by Elfdart »

Bush's story unravels even more. :lol:

http://www.kstptv5.com/article/stories/ ... tml?cat=64

EXCLUSIVE:
5 EYEWITNESS NEWS video may be linked to missing explosives in Iraq
Updated: 10/28/2004 11:50:09 AM - VIDEO


A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew in Iraq shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein was in the area where tons of explosives disappeared, and may have videotaped some of those weapons.

The missing explosives are now an issue in the presidential debate. Democratic candidate John Kerry is accusing President Bush of not securing the site they allegedly disappeared from. President Bush says no one knows if the ammunition was taken before or after the fall of Baghdad on April 9, 2003 when coalition troops moved in to the area.

Using GPS technology and talking with members of the 101st Airborne Division, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has determined the crew embedded with the troops may have been on the southern edge of the Al Qaqaa installation, where the ammunition disappeared. The news crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa, and drove two or three miles north of there with soldiers on April 18, 2003.

During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS news crew bunker after bunker of material labelled "explosives." Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get into the bunkers and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.

"We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew. Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses.

There were what appeared to be fuses for bombs. They also found bags of material men from the 101st couldn't identify, but box after box was clearly marked "explosive."

In one bunker, there were boxes marked with the name "Al Qaqaa", the munitions plant where tons of explosives allegedly went missing.

Once the doors to the bunkers were opened, they weren't secured. They were left open when the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew and the military went back to their base.

"We weren't quite sure what were looking at, but we saw so much of it and it didn't appear that this was being secured in any way," said photojournalist Joe Caffrey. "It was several miles away from where military people were staying in their tents".

Officers with the 101st Airborne told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the bunkers were within the U.S. military perimeter and protected. But Caffrey and former 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Dean Staley, who spent three months together in Iraq, said Iraqis were coming and going freely.

"At one point there was a group of Iraqis driving around in a pick-up truck,"Staley said. "Three or four guys we kept an eye on, worried they might come near us."


On Wednesday, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS e-mailed still images of the footage taken at the site to experts in Washington to see if the items captured on tape are the same kind of high explosives that went missing in Al Qaqaa. Those experts could not make that determination.

The footage is now in the hands of security experts to see if it is indeed the explosives in question.




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