Will the US accept diminishment as badly as France does?

[Stravo]

The French are infamous for not being thrilled about being second stringers. They have seen their great age of empire and dominance fading into the history books, their part in the 20th century almost completely eclipsed by the US or worse the butt of many jokes.

When the time comes for the US to step down from the world stage will there be a similar response from the public? Will there be much whining and hand wringing or will we accept our new diminshed role as England, Germany and Japan have done with relative grace and even good humor?

[theski]

The French are infamous for not being thrilled about being second stringers. They have seen their great age of empire and dominance fading into the history books, their part in the 20th century almost completely eclipsed by the US or worse the butt of many jokes.

When the time comes for the US to step down from the world stage will there be a similar response from the public? Will there be much whining and hand wringing or will we accept our new diminshed role as England, Germany and Japan have done with relative grace and even good humor?

Nope I am sure Shep will agree.. We will go down in a Blaze of Nuclear Fire.

[SirNitram]

Depends how the fall comes. A sudden crash would probably have a brief period of Stunned Bunny Looks. A slow decline as regressive forces take hold would probably lead to alot of delusional folk.

[The Kernel]

Probably not, simply because the United States power is likely to be lost through attrition and neglect rather than conflict, which means it will be a general weakening over many decades. Generations will grow up with the US power on the downfall so they will have plenty of time to get used to the idea. There will be people who wax poetic about the great power of the United States but hell, there are people in Italy that still talk about the Roman Empire.

Case in point: The Austrio-Hungarian Empire was an increadibly strong, long lasting political entity that only ceased to exist in the last century. How many people still talk about their great power in Eastern Europe?

[salm]

Case in point: The Austrio-Hungarian Empire was an increadibly strong, long lasting political entity that only ceased to exist in the last century. How many people still talk about their great power in Eastern Europe?

how many people (besides americans) still talk about the great power of the french?

[Ma Deuce]

how many people (besides americans) still talk about the great power of the french?

The French, of course...

[tharkûn]

I doubt the US will ever enter true second tier status. The US is the third most populous country in the world and sits on ludicriously rich natural resources. Only a handful of countries are positioned to ever have more powerful economies than the US; most likely the US will fall from the heights of world's sole hyperpower to run of the mill great power. No one is going to develop the kind lead that US had over anyone except the USSR for the last 50 years.

Some type of fluke crash might occur, but those are just as likely among the emerging powers so I call it a wash and ignore it.

[Lord Sander]

how many people (besides americans) still talk about the great power of the french?

I hear people talking about Napoleon a lot more than anyone from the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

[Sea Skimmer]

I don't think anyone would accept the kind of fall France had well. Though they might get over it quicker. The US at least has the advantage that even if it falls from being the only superpower it will still always be quite powerful by nature of its size, somthing France didn't have.

[LadyTevar]

We'll go down kicking and screaming.

[fgalkin]

I don't think anyone would accept the kind of fall France had well. Though they might get over it quicker. The US at least has the advantage that even if it falls from being the only superpower it will still always be quite powerful by nature of its size, somthing France didn't have.

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[LadyTevar]

I don't think anyone would accept the kind of fall France had well. Though they might get over it quicker. The US at least has the advantage that even if it falls from being the only superpower it will still always be quite powerful by nature of its size, somthing France didn't have.

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Dream on, Fgalkin.

[JME2]

Probably not, simply because the United States power is likely to be lost through attrition and neglect rather than conflict, which means it will be a general weakening over many decades.

Agreed; the same thing occured with England over the course of both World Wars.

[CJvR]

That hardly seem possible since the French still haven't accepted what was a fact 150-200 years ago, despite getting their asses kicked three times by the Germans and half a century of existing in the shadow of the US and USSR.

[The Kernel]

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Both hands on the keyboard!

[Ma Deuce]

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

At which point they'll have to consider that West and Midwest their new homeland, because their home countries will be radioactive cinders, and since Russians and Chinese hate each other, they'll kill each other off, allowing the Americans to reclaim the land .

[fgalkin]

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Both hands on the keyboard!

How do you expect me to navigate the board without using a mouse?

And no, it was not wanking. It was an accurate prediction based on the position of the ISS in relation to Alpha Centauri, the strength of the wind, the direction of flight for the 3 birds I saw this morning, and the amount of exhaust produced by the bus I used to enter NYC today. So, you see, this is very accurate, and will come to pass within the next 500 years because the Gods will it.

(Hey, it worked for the Romans)

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[SirNitram]

I doubt the US will ever enter true second tier status.

Now I have to try and remember if the phrase I translated years ago was said by a Roman or a Greek. Because it's pretty much this argument.

If the anti-intellectual/anti-science regressive elements in America continue their grasp in all things, America will drift behind. Even a few of Stem Cells proposed uses solely in Europes hands? Other countries benefitting from cheap fusion power? The list of things that could benefit the US greatly but are being crippled by political efforts(From either the fundie contingent or big business interests) is long enough that it could spell out a long, protracted decay.

[Guardsman Bass]

Not if China and Russia take over everything to the west of the Appalachians.

At which point they'll have to consider that West and Midwest their new homeland, because their home countries will be radioactive cinders, and since Russians and Chinese hate each other, they'll kill each other off, allowing the Americans to reclaim the land .

Your imagination is lacking; this is the point where we conquer the world, declare Pax Americana, and declare the President of the American Empire the God-Emperor of the World.

In other words, buy stock in Haliburton.

[Mayabird]

We'll go down kicking and screaming.

You beat me to it! When I saw this thread, that was the VERY first thought in my head.

[tharkûn]

Now I have to try and remember if the phrase I translated years ago was said by a Roman or a Greek. Because it's pretty much this argument.

If the anti-intellectual/anti-science regressive elements in America continue their grasp in all things, America will drift behind. Even a few of Stem Cells proposed uses solely in Europes hands? Other countries benefitting from cheap fusion power? The list of things that could benefit the US greatly but are being crippled by political efforts(From either the fundie contingent or big business interests) is long enough that it could spell out a long, protracted decay.

Stem cell research is only prohibited from having government funding, private funding is availible. This all or nothing fallacy about stem cells gets annoying. Yes Bush's decision is a compromise between the fundies and everyone else; however it isn't banned and nothing prevents the quite lucrative speculation of private funds on novel research.

Fusion is being funded by the US. The NIF has a billion dollars worth of funding out at LLNL, and that is for the LESS realistic fusion proposal. I don't know how much is going to ITER, put the US is listed at their site. Taking the numbers from the Candian government: US invested 2.55% of its GDP into energy R&D, Japan - 3.12%, Canada - 1.6%, Germany - 2.4%, UK - 1.94%, and Holland - 2.09%. I highly doubt that they US will be left out in the cold on R&D, particularly given that US funding is increasing whereas much of the rest of the world is decreasing (or at least flatlining while their economies grow).

I really don't want to dredge up the R&D budgets for areas like pharmaceuticals, surgery, genomics, semiconductors, petro-chemicals ... suffice it to say that the US leads most categories in absolute terms and does respectably as a function of population or GDP. Of course some research fields will be dominated by various countries; but the fact remains that the US invests a crapload into R&D.

The fundies really can't do jack to stop hot R&D when it's financed by Wall Street, even if they get it outright banned by the government, corporations have this nasty habit of taking it overseas merely to avoid red tape (i.e. some narcotics research has headed to more drug friendly nations) and still marketing the end products domestically - banning it wouldn't even be sufficient.

Really the major impact isn't the fundies, it is the piss poor schooling system. However this is more than counteracted by massive braindrain from all points on the globe. I am not convinced that the fundies will be the doom of the US; the US has consistently been more fundy than the rest of the western world. The US has also been consistently more productive and wealthier than the rest of the western world.

Besides the rest of the world have their own idiots holding back R&D, they are called greens and they bloody hold cabinet posts. I'd much rather have a Christian fundy dicking over R&D than a thinly disguised Luddite. The fundy will only oppose a handful of projects that happen to go against the holy writ. The Luddite simply is outright regressive. For instance for all the fundy uproar over stem cells there is far more green uproar over GE crops. Genetic egineering is a far broader and more powerful tool than stem cells will ever be. Likewise the green stance on nuclear power, on fusion, and on animal experimentation is well known.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I don't think America will fall behind technologically, because while political concerns may hold something back, once its out and we see that it works, we take it.

[Raptor 597]

I have already begun to accept to acept the lose of US hegemon. Though I suspect it will be quite a long time before a rapid decline sets in. I think everyone complains of the regressive elements and they've always existed, but I don't know how powerfully. However, this judgement is more reinforced with a Boston victory. I mean when they win the World Series any nation could destroy us. Seriously, I don't see who will be able to take over so completely for many years; I think we'll have numerous minor alliances across the world vying for control in the next 200 years.

[J]

I don't think America will fall behind technologically, because while political concerns may hold something back, once its out and we see that it works, we take it.

It's already starting. While the US still has arguably the best universities & research facilities in the world and the most money to throw at scientific endeavors, the piss-poor k-12 school system will drag things down in the long term and is already doing so. While there continue to be standout geniuses who will lead research onwards, the lack of basic science knowledge amongst the general population will put a brake on progress since the "support structure" if you will for those geniuses will not be there to help them with the gruntwork. America has started her slow decline.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Whenever America gets too bad in any one area, there's a reactionary snap back in the opposite direction. I don't recall anything for education, but in Civil Rights movements, women's issues, and political dominance this has always been true.