France pushes to make French the official language of the EU

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-10-28 03:12pm

Beowulf wrote:
Stravo wrote:Don't they also have French words for MicroWave and TV? All of it touched off by some miffed Frenchmen that took a moment away from their cheese and wine to be offended by hearing other Frenchmen say "Le Car." It's pretty damned sad actually to see a nation collectively putting their fingers in their ears and going "Nah Nah, I can't hear that English Nah Nah."
Don't know about microwaves and TVs, but computers are l'ordinateurs.

Well, the Fench are really a wierd bunch.

Here in Germany, we either use the original word, with slight changes to make it look more german or translate it literally, or the Germans simply create a new word, without being ordered from above.

For example:
-The TV, television, is called a "Fernseher" in Germany, which is a new word. (Would be something like "far-away-viewer")
-For a microwave, we say "Mikrowelle", which is simply translated into German.
-For a telephone we say "Telefon", only some small change to the word.
-A DVD-Player we call...well a "DVD-Player". The English word is used.

See, German is a very flexible language..... unlike French.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-10-28 03:24pm

Stravo wrote:Don;t they also have French words for MicroWave and TV? All of it touched off by some miffed Frenchmen that took a moment away from their cheese and wine to be offended by hearing other Frenchmen say "Le Car." It's pretty damned sad actually to see a nation collectively putting their fingers in their ears and going "Nah Nah, I can't hear that English Nah Nah."

They actually have a BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT dedicated exclusively to coming up with and implementing French-sounding words for new things invented elsewhere. Think about that for a second.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-28 03:26pm

Today's example of Funny.. And Sad.

Funny: Latin-speaking Geeks the world over continue to perform CPR on their dead language, by creating broadly Latin words for modern things(Autochariot, Cybernetica).

And Sad: France implements new word to replace E-Mail.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-10-28 03:29pm

SirNitram wrote:Today's example of Funny.. And Sad.

Funny: Latin-speaking Geeks the world over continue to perform CPR on their dead language, by creating broadly Latin words for modern things(Autochariot, Cybernetica).

And Sad: France implements new word to replace E-Mail.

Actually I can understand the Latin thing. One of the church's official languages is Latin. Much of the official records and correspondence is in Latin. They need to have words to describe things like computers and email, etc. Its a tradition that I can appreciate. The French thing flies in the face of common sense and economic reality.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-28 03:31pm

Stravo wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Today's example of Funny.. And Sad.

Funny: Latin-speaking Geeks the world over continue to perform CPR on their dead language, by creating broadly Latin words for modern things(Autochariot, Cybernetica).

And Sad: France implements new word to replace E-Mail.
Actually I can understand the Latin thing. One of the church's official languages is Latin. Much of the official records and correspondence is in Latin. They need to have words to describe things like computers and email, etc. Its a tradition that I can appreciate. The French thing flies in the face of common sense and economic reality.

It's not Church related. It's entirely because a bunch of Geeks felt like being.. Well.. Um.. Geeks.

I can even speak a little modernized Latin.

Repeat after me, class:

Cybernetica Machina Et Mea Non Amicus Est.

The computer and I are not friends.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-10-28 03:32pm

France is trying very hard to be the loudest kid in the classroom.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-28 03:33pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Ve vill have a Deutsch-speaking Europe after all! :twisted:

Never, German grammars are far to vile for that ever to happen.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-10-28 03:45pm

I was not aware that grammar actually had a plural

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-28 03:48pm

Batman wrote:I was not aware that grammar actually had a plural :)

Considering the various German dialects it should have.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-28 03:50pm

When Turkey enters the EU it will probably match the German numbers, perhaps we should make Turkish the official EU language?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-10-28 03:54pm

CJvR wrote:When Turkey enters the EU it will probably match the German numbers, perhaps we should make Turkish the official EU language?

Given that very few people outside Turkey speak Turkish, while a lot speak German, and virtually EVERYBODY speaks English, err-no.
If you're simply saying that it makes more sense than French, I agree.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-28 04:17pm

Tribun wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
Stravo wrote:Don't they also have French words for MicroWave and TV? All of it touched off by some miffed Frenchmen that took a moment away from their cheese and wine to be offended by hearing other Frenchmen say "Le Car." It's pretty damned sad actually to see a nation collectively putting their fingers in their ears and going "Nah Nah, I can't hear that English Nah Nah."
Don't know about microwaves and TVs, but computers are l'ordinateurs.
Well, the Fench are really a wierd bunch.

Here in Germany, we either use the original word, with slight changes to make it look more german or translate it literally, or the Germans simply create a new word, without being ordered from above.

For example:
-The TV, television, is called a "Fernseher" in Germany, which is a new word. (Would be something like "far-away-viewer")
-For a microwave, we say "Mikrowelle", which is simply translated into German.
-For a telephone we say "Telefon", only some small change to the word.
-A DVD-Player we call...well a "DVD-Player". The English word is used.

See, German is a very flexible language..... unlike French.

German is only flexible because it can be flexible.
French could be just as flexible, if not for the Académie française, which controls the development.

And flexibility is fine and dandy, but in case of german it borders on the bizarre. "Denglish" this vile bastard child of English and German words is just absolutely annoying.
It would do Germans some good to be proud of their own language and use it properly, and not sip up any English word some think is "in".

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-28 04:20pm

Dahak wrote:German is only flexible because it can be flexible.
French could be just as flexible, if not for the Académie française, which controls the development.

That's the worst bit. The French have deluded themselves into thinking you can governmentally control languages. Everyone here knows the story about how 'Quiz' was made, right, as a word?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-28 04:21pm

We have the same problem in Russia. On one hand there are the purists who hate any foreign word introduced and whine about the demise of Russian (many of them just so happen to be neo-nazis). On the other hand, there's the "Runglish" which is just ridiculous.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-10-28 04:29pm

In a hundred years or so, the French won't have their own language —just an outrageous accent.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-10-28 04:30pm

SirNitram wrote:
Dahak wrote:German is only flexible because it can be flexible.
French could be just as flexible, if not for the Académie française, which controls the development.
That's the worst bit. The French have deluded themselves into thinking you can governmentally control languages. Everyone here knows the story about how 'Quiz' was made, right, as a word?

They seem to be about half-effective at controlling it though; Not enough to stop it, but enough to be annoying. Also, I heard this from someone, but don't know if it's true- if you ask for an airplane ticket in English in the Paris Airport, do you get in trouble?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-28 04:37pm

fgalkin wrote:We have the same problem in Russia. On one hand there are the purists who hate any foreign word introduced and whine about the demise of Russian (many of them just so happen to be neo-nazis). On the other hand, there's the "Runglish" which is just ridiculous.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I'm so-so.
I don't mind reasonable evolution of a language. But sometimes, too much is too much.
People who use English words just to sound more cool is a laughing stock. Especially in the business area where you have this avalanche of English buzz words rolling over you. The only German words in those sentences are some verbs in between all the English words...

And in marketing, it can lead funny results. They did a survey what people really got from the English slogans.
One was "Come in and find out", which many decoded as "Come in and try to find a way out". Or the one from a German TV station. "Powered by Emotion", which turned into "Kraft durch Freude" (Strength through Joy, the Nazi leisure organization) in many people's mind. An allusion that they didn't think of

Post by **Edi** » 2004-10-28 04:46pm

The French can piss off, there is no way this is going through. Everyone else in the EU hates them enough already, and this suggestion is just going to intensify it even more.

As for German, its grammar is horrible. It's very structured and methodical, but it has such a bewildering array of reflexive verbs and I never could keep the masculines, feminines and neuter words straight, I always mixed them up. It's still light years ahead of French in both grammar and pronounceability, though. If I had to pick a big European language other than English to be the norm for EU, I'd choose Italian, it's ridiculously easy to pronounce and the grammar can't be any worse than the other candidates either. Of course, I'd prefer English too.

Edi

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-10-28 04:53pm

Edi wrote:The French can piss off, there is no way this is going through. Everyone else in the EU hates them enough already, and this suggestion is just going to intensify it even more.

As for German, its grammar is horrible. It's very structured and methodical, but it has such a bewildering array of reflexive verbs and I never could keep the masculines, feminines and neuter words straight, I always mixed them up. It's still light years ahead of French in both grammar and pronounceability, though. If I had to pick a big European language other than English to be the norm for EU, I'd choose Italian, it's ridiculously easy to pronounce and the grammar can't be any worse than the other candidates either. Of course, I'd prefer English too.

Edi

To be fair, Finish isn't the easiest language out there, either

And Italian has some pretty deep pitfalls in pronounciation. Dunno for other mother tongues, but for Germans, the "gli", "gn" sounds are hard to get right. Just let some people order Gnocchi, and you will wish you're deaf

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-10-28 04:56pm

Stravo wrote:I'm curious about the must learn English curriculum, do German students find English easier to learn than other languages like French or Italian because of the Germanic roots and influences in English?

English is easier for everyone to learn because it's grammar has been simplified to a far greater degree than for any other Indo-European language. For starters, English, unlike the rest of the languages of Europe, long ago dispensed with grammatical gender. You don't have to bother remembering whether a word is masculine, feminine, or neuter. English verbs (apart from irregular verbs - and english has no greater percentage of them than any other Indo-European language) are easier to conjugate. There are no adjective declensions and variant forms of indefinite and definite articles, such as in German for example, where you not only have to keep track of what gender a noun is, but whether or not it's the subject, direct object, indirect object, or shows possession, and whether or not you are using the singular or plural forms, and modify any articles and adjective endings accordingly. The result is that in German, there are about a dozen different words for "the", and you have to use the right one based on what I just listed above. English has none of this needless grammatical complexity, which makes it a very easy language to learn.

The only hard part about learning English is dealing with our admittedly chaotic spelling. English orthography easily presents foreigners with their greatest difficulty in learning the language.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-28 04:58pm

That, and the 20 billion past, present, and future tenses you have.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-28 05:09pm

Tribun wrote: -The TV, television, is called a "Fernseher" in Germany, which is a new word. (Would be something like "far-away-viewer")

that´s a pretty direct translation, too.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-10-28 05:09pm

There are more portuguese speaking people than french speaking people, and if you consider it together with the spanish we make a serious case even only inside the EU. That irritates the french

Latins rule.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-10-28 05:13pm

Darth_Zod wrote: kind of amusing how many english words are getting mixed into other european languages, considering that english itself is just a bastardization of the same european languages in question.

heh, what goes around comes around.

Dahak wrote:I'm so-so.
I don't mind reasonable evolution of a language. But sometimes, too much is too much.
People who use English words just to sound more cool is a laughing stock. Especially in the business area where you have this avalanche of English buzz words rolling over you. The only German words in those sentences are some verbs in between all the English words...

meh, i don´t really care about bastardization of languages as long as the people who need to understand it can do so.l
who cares how the business weasels talk among each other.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-10-28 05:14pm

Amen.